USCS S/A v. DSS

[TerpFan]

Dilemma--I have been offered a job as a Special Agent with Customs and with the Diplomatic Security--which is better? I have never been overseas and fear that a job with State--I may end up in an undesirable place or not like it overseas. I have also been offered a job as a Postal Inspector but that does not seem as good as Customs or State. Any thoughts?

[Mister Jinxy]

First off, congratulations. You're about to start living the dream.
I'm in a similar situation, though they have not made me an offer (yet!)
Got applications in BI stage with Customs and DSS (as well as DEA, natch).
I am worried that I'll get the one I don't want before the one I want, though at this stage in my life I'd be a fool to turn anything down. Here are my thoughts. These are totally personal opinion and mean nothing but the way I look at the situation based upon my rather limited understanding:
1st Choice: Customs
First off, if HR is any reflection of the agency itself, then these people have everyone beat, hand's down. Second, they've got a broad range of responsibilities (child pornography, customs fraud, drug interdiction etc.) and plenty of interesting places in CONUS to be stationed at.
The rest are a toss up. DEA would be cool, and was a long time ago my first choice but I am a little turned off at the way they've handled me. Plus it is pretty much one type of jurisdiction and is undoubteldly highly dangerous which would upset my significant other more so than the other jobs.
DSS sounds interesting, and I admit I get a bit excited when I see Sec. Powell and the dudes in the sunglasses with the tan vests and the MP-5s. But it would definitely mean a lot of foreign travel and days of uncertainty and tedium (my opinion) interrupted by moments of excitement and terror. Although, with the accreation of global terrorism, passport and identity fraud and the like could become a very interesting subject.
Like I said, my 2 cents, but I pray nightly to St. Jude that Virginia will be posting my name on her list very shortly. I'd like to be in your shoes. Good luck.

[NomadicFed]

I've worked cases with both agencies (USCS and DSS). If I wasn't FBI, I'd try for DSS...the overseas work is challenging and they are key players in our counter terrorism efforts. Plus, you're technically a diplomat. And if you like the tactical stuff, their Mobile Security Division is a good gig. I'm not the world's biggest fan of Customs, but I've met some great Agents over there.

[nsedet]

Tough call, both are great agencies. Mostly, it depends what is important to you. Based upon the mission alone, I would go with DSS...if you are interested in counter-terrorism, security management, or protective services, they are a great outfit (their investigative mission is very interesting, but like USSS, casework is not the number one priority). However, if location or stability are important to you, go with Customs. USCS is also a great outfit with a very diverse mission, and most agents I have known have been very happy there. I have met a few former DSS agents, and all of them were happy with the job and the agency, but not with the mandated moves and locations. Bottom line, to me, is: if you want stability or to focus on being an investigator, go with Customs; if you want to focus more on CT and security operations, and location and stability are not as important, then go with DSS.

Since you mentioned Postal Inspectors, let me also add that they have probably one of the best jobs in Federal law enforcement. Diverse mission, good organization, lots of opportunity to play street cop and get involved in just about every type of case you can imagine.

[Chitown]

Do any of you know how often USCS helps USSS with protective details? A Secret Cervice guy mentioned they have their fellow Treasury agencies help them - particularly when the pick up the candidates during elections. Just curious...

[Tax987]

Chitown:

Yes ATF, IRS and Customs agents supplement Secret Service when needs arise for protection details--especially during the Presidential campaign (you may be stuck watching a garbage can for 12 hours). Actually you would be surprised how many agents from all agencies are involved in protection details and security management. For example, when not assisting Secret Service during the Presidential Election Year, IRS-CID agents protect the Commisioner of the IRS and others and go on armed escorts with Revenue Officers who are seizing property from deliquent taxpayers but by far if protection and security management is your game than I would look at Secret Service and DSS.

[buba]

If you "fear" an overseas job, or one in an "undesirable location," I would NOT go with DSS. From the agents that I have worked with overseas, you can bet that 1. Eventually you are going to get an overseas assignment as an Assistant Regional Security Officer. 2. Seniority plays a LOT in what post your going to get. The RSO and his/her assistant have huge responsibilities for security of their embassies, their ambassador and being a subject matter expert for their country. The Marine Security Detachment NCOIC reports to the RSO. The RSO becomes a key figure in whatever US protected VIP is entering that country. When I worked with (not for) them doing DOD VIP protection in the early 80's, State had a career path. The path started in the US doing visa passport fraud, mixing in some full-time stateside assignments, then as an ARSO, and then to RSO. Don't get me wrong, it's a top notch outfit and the agent's I met overseas (in the cool countries) loved their jobs. But they had paid their dues working in some pretty crummy countries. I am working a case joint with a stateside DSS agent who has been with them 20 years. He has had 5 overseas assignments. State has some perks for their personnel overseas that the DOD personnel didn't. Like not having anything deducted from their pay for family housing. Those guys put enough money in the bank when they come back to the US, they can pay cash for a house! Also, State pays (or used to), for you and your family to fly home once a year. But, those guys and girls earn it. I went to a couple of countries (Zaire, that I can recall), that because of the economic or political conditions, the embassey staff and their families pretty much lived and worked in a "compound" type atmosphere. I can only imagine that it has gotten worse in some parts of the world.
Anyway, that's what I can recall about them. Maybe there's someone that has more current information.

Buba

[MSG]

I was a Marine Security Guard at the U.S Embassy Tokyo, Japan, U.S Interests Section Havana, Cuba, and U.S Embassy Nassau, Bahamas. If you are not familiar with MSG's you will be. Our boss was the RSO which is a DSS agent. This is a great job. If you have a wife and young kids I would consider Customs. You will be out of the country alot. As a new guy you will get the crappy posts like Yemen, Chad, Algiers, Zaire after you do your time in D.C. If your single go for it, you'll see the world, have a great time, plus you'll enoy the work.

[Chitown]

Terpfan,

Were you impressed with the Postal Inspectors when you interviewed with them? The general concensus seems to be that they are perhaps the most respected group of feds.

[TerpFan]

To all--I really appreciate the input from the inside. It is such a tough decision.

Chitown--

I was real impressed with the Postal Folks--they flew me to DC for the interview (which was difficult). You also go through a polygraph and BI. The local office was real helpful. I think the pay is better in the beginning; however, in the long run you do not make quite as much. Also with them I am a little nervous that they keep privatizing--not sure what effect that will have on the USPIS.

[PJM]

Hey TerpFan ( or should we call you midas!)

Good God Man, three offers? If you don't mind, how about posting your qualifications and background.

I wouldn't have any trouble saying no to the DSS. Great agency but I hate leaving the states.

As far as the USPIS I wouldn't worry about them going away. When has Congress ever given up on an agency or done the fiscally responsibile thing? Customs is a great agency as well. Anyway you decide, you are good to go.

Good luck and congrats,
~PJM

[TerpFan]

PJM--

Currently I am a JAG in the Air Force. I would recommend law school to anyone--it seemed to open a lot more doors in law enforcement. What jobs are you looking into?

[copboy]

I personally would take Postal inspectors. I have heard they are one of the best and hardest to get on with.

[zz25]

My advice.....take the first hard offer you get. If you actually have 3 hard offers on the table complete with academy dates, go with the Postal Inspection Service. It seems to be one of the most difficult agencies to get on with as well as one of the most respected. A telling sign: you really don't hear about PI's leaving for other agencies. If you don't like it, that kind of experience transfers well to any agency. At any rate, you really can't make the wrong decision here. Best of luck and keep us posted!

[SonnyHouston]

Well since everyone has an opinion I figured I'd give you mine. I just completed a Managing Dignitary Protection Operations School taught by DSS. It was the most impressive display of Law Enforcement prowess that I have ever been involved in. These guys know their stuff. If I hadn't blown 23 years with local law enforcement I would be honored to serve with these guys.

From what I've seen and heard there is nothing to fear with this Agency.

Good Luck and Congrats,
Sonny

[ThomasAckerman]

As usual, nsedet is right on the money with his assessment of the agencies and the pros and cons. Buba and zz25 also offer outstanding input. Ultimately, it boils down to personal preferences because you have a crack at three great agencies. That been said, my preferences (in rank order) would be:

1. Customs.
2. Postal Inspection (a virtual tie with Customs).
3. State Department DSS (a distant third).

In my opinion, Customs is tops in terms of opportunities and areas of specialization the agency offers. Similarly, Postal Inspection also is a great agency. I have always felt that Customs and Postal Inspection are among the best agencies in federal law enforcement. I like their missions and I like their people. They really are first-rate.

State Department DSS is also a highly-regarded agency, but I wouldn't accept a position with them. Why? Because I'd have to give up too much if DSS moved me to the other side of the planet. In addition to my 1811 position, I am a university professor and police academy instructor; a season ticket holder for Michigan State University football, basketball and hockey; and I have two kids in high school. Translation: I'm not interested in moving at this point in my career. If I were in my 20s and single I might consider DSS, although probably would take Customs or Postal just the same. Still, you can't go wrong with DSS if you don't mind foreign duty and frequent travel - in fact this is exactly why many people accept positions with DSS. To each his own.

TOM

PS: Congrats on the basketball championship! Go Terps!

[99Hunter]

As a DS Agent I can tell you it truly is the most interesting job in the world. I can also tell you that you will be making more money than any body else out there. You will also see the the world right out of training and be given incredible assignments that NOBODY else can touch. BUT, you will be gone all the time and will be doing tons of protection. Very little on the investigations side of the house. Overseas is incredible. My advice...if you are single go for it!, just a spouse go for it, if and only if your spouse is of the independent mindset. With children, think long and hard and be prepared to miss their first steps, ball games, birthdays, etc.

[SA FrequentFlyer]

99Hunter is right on the money. A DS agent will see and do things in their first few years that most LEO's will not see or do in a lifetime. It's probably the most money an LEO could earn too, between dignitary protection overtime and per diem earned while on TDY assignments. While there are very few overtime opportunities if you are stationed at an overseas post, the absence of rent or house payments is a nice perk. I've had a great time with DSS.

That said, a DS career and family life is most likely a difficult mix. If your spouse also has a professional career (non-State Dept./non-DS), good luck. Being married to another Fed helps a little, but not as much as one might expect. In the hiring frenzy of USCS, TSA, NCIS, HHS, ATF, etc., we've lost a good number of great agents, single AND married. Why? To save marriages, to watch kids be born or to have them, to watch them grow up, to work criminal investigations, to have the personal time and stability to find their future mates. We are required to change assignments every 2-3 years, and have a 6 year maximum on time spent domestic. And trust me, you WILL be held to that, if not expected to go out before 6 years is up. Extensions on assignments are short and not often granted.

Most DS agents grumble about their agency (management, money, etc.) just like any other agent from any other agency. Most of them love their jobs nonetheless. Most of the agents who left didn't hate the job, just hated what they were missing. Also, the mandated overseas assignment is a tough pill to swallow. It's not all Paris/London/Madrid either. Believe me, there are a lot more terrible places in the world than there are nice places.

I haven't regretted a day of it. But I have missed a lot of birthdays, weddings, graduations, and holidays, which have caused me a lot of heartache. So in making your choice, ask a lot of questions of agents in each agency. Ask about your specific situation and how it would work in either agency.

Hope this helps, terpfan. PM me if you have any specific questions.

SAFF

Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie!" ...until you can find a rock.

[nsedet]

Originally posted by SA FrequentFlyer
Believe me, there are a lot more terrible places in the world than there are nice places.

My guess is they won't be having you write the recruiting brochures anytime soon...great quote, though, you should think about having it on your business cards... :)

[Law2Fed]

SAFF and 99Hunter,

Other than protection assignments and the duties listed on the DS website, what does "a day in the life" of a DSS agent usually include? I know every day is likely different, but a general "snapshot" would be fascinating.

What are "TDY" assigments?

Is the 6 year time limit for the initial assignment after training, or is there a limit of 6 domestic-duty years during an agent's career?

Thanks much for your insight...present and future!

L2F

[SA FrequentFlyer]

Law2Fed,

TDY = Temporary DutY, assigned work that takes you outside of your field office area.

The 6-year clock begins with your entry into a DS domestic assignment, whether it's as a new agent from training to the field office, or your first domestic assignment when an overseas assignment is over.

Field Office Day in the Life has 3 options:

1. Protection Protection Protection, either in your city/region, someother field office's region, or overseas with SecState. You may be told to leave tomorrow or in a few days. Usually you're gone for 5-10 days at a time.

2. If no protection is going on, you'll try to catch up on your passport and visa fraud casework, follow up on leads, answer phone calls from people who need help with overseas issues, travel warnings, passports, visas, or anything else that they can think of. You may be playing recruiter and fielding questions from applicants (Don't worry, Nsedet, I go a little easier on them the first time! "Nice Doggie..."LOL :wink: )

You may be doing airport transit work for dignitaries. You may be liaisoning with foreign consulates/embassies in your region. You may be tasked with a BI. You may be working with other agencies on cases and making arrests. Maybe talking to the AUSA.

3. A Long term Overseas TDY is usually 30-45 days long, at an Embassy or Consulate. Mostly Protection work if you don't have an overseas assignment under your belt. If you do, you're helping out the Regional Security Officer handle security at an overseas post. The RSO, or an assistant RSO may be on leave, so you may be filling in while they're away.

Life outside a field office as a more experienced agent could involve any variety of responsibilities. DS has a lot of different branches that you can try to get as assignments. Various counter/intelligence units, OIG-type work, mobile training teams that travel around the world to train embassy personnel in almost anything, Tactical team, SecState detail, HQ visa and passport fraud branches, electronic security, physical security, command center, overseas security, counterterrorism, task forces...

Hope this is what you're looking for.

SAFF

Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie!" ...until you can find a rock.

[99Hunter]

TDY assignments are temporary long term assignments. For example, if the Secretary's Detail needs additional bodies you will be assigned to them exclusively for a period of time, usually 30 days. If a RSO (Resident Security Officer; DSS agents title overseas) needs additional people you will work at that post for a period of time, usually 30-90 days, sometimes shorter or longer.

As for the day in the life it varies depending on where you are assigned. Secretaries Detail, nothing but protection with rotating shifts. Assigned to field office, sorta 9-5 weekends and holidays off. You would work passport fraud cases and backgound investigations. If a protection assignment comes up you will be traveling to that area and do the various protection things with various shifts. The field office has the largest pool of available bodies so that's why you get called for lots of protection. A job at HQ is extremely diverse, intelligence, counter/anti terrorism, visa fraud, overseas support, liason, etc., and yes protection assignments. That is usually 9-5 also. Overseas, you are assigned to an embassy or consulate for a period of 1-4 years depending on tenure, hardship of the post, etc. There you are the jack of all trades, the sheriff, contractor, security advisor, etc. You are in charge of security of the embassy, its employees and all classified material. With that comes the Marine Security Guard Program, local guard program, physical security, law enforcement, liason with other federal agencies, and on and on. With all that comes doing budgets, hiring/firing people, investigating them, and again on and on. You usually have a normal 9-5ish life and have great quality-family time.

As for the six year rule, it means that you must do at least one overseas assignment within every six years. Most agents do 4-5 assignments in a career.

DSS is incredibly exciting and has something for everyone all over the world, but with that comes lots of responsibility and fast. I was out of training 3 days and then sent TDY to the Secretary's Detail. Within one month I was the site advance agent in Brcko, Bosnia. Within three months I had already been in 9 different countries.

As for an overall career you generally do 2-3 years in a field office, then go overseas for a 2 year tour come back, usually to an assignment in Washinton, DC and then back out for 3-4 years and so on. Some agents love overseas so much they stay out several years and a ordered to come back to the states.

If you want to spend the money there are three excellent videos you can get that shows you what we do...A&E, Investigative Reports: In the Line of Fire; TLC, Counter Force: Badges Without Borders and Discovery Channel, State Department Protectors, Unrestricted Access, MSD: The Unknown Protectors.

Enjoy...

[Law2Fed]

SAFF and 99Hunter: Thanks for the information!

If a DS agent is referred to as an RSO overseas, is there just one per embassy/locale, or are the overseas posts staffed like the domestic offices, however that may be?

How would I obtain the TLC Counterforce video? The Discoverychannel.com customer service people have not had any luck tracking it down. I was fortunte enough to tape the Discovery Channel show...fantastic interviews and great footage...easily obtained through the website.

Thanks again!
L2F

[uncltone]

SA FF & 99Hunter,
I swear you both are saying those things to make me feel more impatient as I wait for my Background to be complete. Every time I tell myself to put it the back of my mind until I get that final call something happens.Two weeks ago I guy I work with got the call on a Thursday to start monday.....arghhhhhhhhh! SA FF, were they having you guys tour my Agency HQ when you came aboard? The did this week... just curious, drop me a email.....Again, can't wait to join the ranks....just that I have never been good at the waiting game. Take care!
-T

[GlassMasterson]

I found the Badges without Borders DVD at Best Buy in a 3-pack of counterterrorism DVDs. It's a pretty cool set, but they mislabled the DVDs and Badges w/out Borders and another one. Fortunately it was just a switcheroo!! Excellent video!

[jbak]

uncltone,
I feel your pain! My BI told me mine would be done on the 14th, like that happened. I think he is talking to the last person today or tomorrow, hopefully. I want a class date !!

[99Hunter]

The RSO is the boss, usually a seniorish agent and there is only one. Then there are assistant RSO's known as ARSO's. If your at a small post there might be 2 ARSO's, large posts 5-6 ARSO's. Very dangerous, but small posts 5-6 ARSO's. Field offices and RACS can have 15-100 agents assigned (in DS definitely never fully staffed) depending on the area. DC is the largest office.

As for the videos, go to each of the channels web site and get their 800 number and call them. The exact video numbers which should help the operators find them are...

Discovery Channel video (MSD) #730226
A&E Channel video (Line of Fire) #AAE-17804
TLC Channel video (Badges w/o Borders) # 764134

Sometimes the operators don't have a clue or the title on their screen says Secret Service and not DS. Also TLC & Discovery are the same company.

And uncltone, be patient grasshopper! I was told the big hang-ups are with the folks that grant the security clearances. Remember with the federal government, your life is in the hands of some office intern or possibly some digruntled GS'er, so be nice and check with them often and ask them if there is anything in the world you could do for them to get the process going faster. (Not favors, but next-day air correspondence, etc.) As for the agency are you refering to the "christians?" If so, yeh we all get tours there.

[uncltone]

99Hunter,
I am not sure of the "christians" reference, but I'll clarify more. I am a Police officer at Langley and it was the first time I had heard of a class of DS Agents coming over for a tour. I know there are ATA agents that get briefings and probably other stuff I am not aware of with the CTC, but I was just curious. There are alot of areas I can go with on speculation with this, but I dare not tread.

Patience is a virtue that I can posses, but I feel as though I am in the movie ground hog day and tommorrow never seems to come. I originally thought with the clearance we get at the Agency (TS/SCI) that it would speed things up, BUT I have heard that it can also slow it down. I have civilian and military overseas time and i know that takes time. Also, except for one individual I have had nothing, but very pleasant expierience with the HR people I have been calling every 2-3 weeks, but now I have been encouraged to call her every Friday... so, I will.

All good things come to those who wait... and I've been waiting to do this since I was a MSG ('97)... then there was that whole college thing, my short stint with the Vermont State Police, and now as the discovery channel once called us the special forces police of the Agency.... how did Hendrix put it "... still waiting, still dreaming..."

-T

[99Hunter]

Thank you ...GONZO for esplainin' to everybody.

uncltone, If you agency will not release your TS/SCI background check, or take their sweet time doing it, yeh it will take you BI forever to get done. I know DOD is very fast at releasing info, but Im not sure about about the CIA. If you remember your RSO try to track him/her down and see if they could talk to somebody to get the process done faster. Call the DS Comm. Ctr. (you should have the #) and they can find your RSO.

Ciao

[UScoastie]

TBone-

Where ya been man? I ran into a buddy of ours from the Valley and I need to tell ya about it! Drop me an email.

-J

[uncltone]

Gonzo,
I swear I think it would be fun to throw all sorts of off the wall questions to you and see what you come up with.....the all knowing great and powerful Gonzo. Jeeezzz, you think after almost 8 months i would have picked up right away on the cristians reference... oh well.
99Hunter,
I actually keep in contact quite frequetly w/ the old RSO... its been about a month since we last conversed... he is actually in the area for language training. I will try him later on today.... honestly, i hate asking people to "make a call" or "check up for me" 'cause I never want someone to say that is what got me the job. The weird thing is is that I listed my old RSO on my SF86 and he has never been contacted.... go figure. Thanks for the advice.... hopefully my success story will be posted soon.

J3,
I'll drop you an email later today... how is your girlfriend and my kid? I should be in Albany about mid-may for some r&r.

Thanks all,
-T