My dilemma

[CarpFlounderson]

I'll be honest because this forum is anonymous and I don't think I can safely talk to my coworkers about this subject. I was working my shift in a northern California city on June 6 when a group of young people "served" me with a “cease and desist order”. It was apparently from some sort of medical marijuana activist group, and they were demanding that local law enforcement officers stop harassing medical marijuana distribution centers. I was curious about their group (and very attracted to the young woman who gave me the papers) so I asked her to meet me for a coffee in a few hours when I was off duty. This girl was fine. She had long, straight blonde hair, and a very firm body that she barely seemed to cover with what looked like some sort of hippyish homemade dress. She wore several pieces of homemade jewelry, and she had a extremely exotic look to her. Anyways, she actually did meet me later (much to my surprise) and even brought me flowers! We spent the next few hours talking about her marijuana legalization group, and why she's so interested in the subject, and the goals of her group. The more she told me about it, the more and more harmless they seemed. Considering the fact that California has passed several medical marijuana laws, she didn’t seem to be asking for too much... mostly they just seem to be asking for protection from the DEA.

I think it must have been at this point when she did something that changed my life. I didn't know it at the time, but she later told me that she slipped some liquid ecstasy in my coffee. Soon afterwards, I started feeling odd. She must have sensed it was starting to work, because she started petting my arm… I instantly understood why ravers like to touch each other a lot when they are on X. The soft touch of a compassionate young woman seemed to be the most important thing in the world at that point. Her touch seemed more meaningful and understanding than even my wife’s. It was like we were connecting very deeply, just from a touch and a look in the eye. We ended up dancing for the next 6 hours or so, and I came away from the experience with the understanding that I was a very angry man. I was equally sure that I could no longer live life that way.

Since then, I’ve left behind my angry thoughts, I’ve left my angry wife, and I moved in with this beautiful, kind, young woman who is 13 years younger than me. Even though I NEVER plan on taking the drug again, I can definitely understand why many young people believe that the occasional use of ecstasy isn’t that big of a deal. The problem is that I’ve been having a hard time believing in my work as a police officer now. The whole experience seemed so mind expanding and harmless… it made me really question why so much of my work is focused on stopping drug “abuse”, when it was clearly demonstrated to me that not all drug USE is ABUSE. Now I think of my new girl’s occasional “drug use” much like I would think of someone who likes to drink a few beers once in a while. Of course I’m still cautious and looking for any sign of addictive behavior, but I just don’t see it in her, or any of her friends for that matter. I now think the whole drug war is a flawed policy, a huge waste of resources, and a disservice to my community. I’m actually so convinced of this that I’m considering leaving my job.

I understand this is all sort of bizarre, but has anyone else here ever had a change of heart like this? Sorry this got so long.

Very confused,
Anon

[Serpico6]

I’ll be honest this sounds like a joke to me! I highly doubt that during your law enforcement career you have not seen the real side of drug use and the criminal subculture associated with it. I'm sure that you can think of at least one disturbing scene you’ve come across that validates the current drug laws. If however, this one time trip has freed your mind. In which you were slipped the "Mickey" and your comfortable with that, I would strongly encourage you to think about quitting your job before you embarrass your department or yourself.

However, this is just what I think.

[DC LD]

This story does sound like a joke. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion so I'm going to give mine. This is for you Carp and everybody else.

Someone who slipped a drug into your drink should be in line for a serious a$$ whipping. I don't care how good they look. This is an all ecompassing rule. It doesn't matter if it is a man, woman, child, handicapped, or animal. You could get killed from something like that.

*The author of the previous statement does neither advocate nor condone violence toward women, children, animals, or the disabled.*

I stiil think it's a joke

:alienfade

[Striker]

I agree sounds like something out of a romance novel.

[snowball]

Hey Carp,

Nice try, cant BS a BS'er. Take your hippy love story and move to Afghanistan. Maybe they will believe you.

[CarpFlounderson]

Alright, you guys caught me =)

Me and a bunch of my online buddies make a hobby out of trolling around on these kinds of message boards. It’s usually fun / easy to come in and get people all riled up by spreading crazy stories and f’d up disinformation (FUD). Then we sit back and enjoy the chaos that ensues. I should have known to play it a little more subtle with you guys since you’re probably more experienced at detecting BS compared to the average gullible internet monkeys that we usually mess with.

(You may find it entertaining to know that the folks over at Taliban-news.com weren’t as quick to pick up on our fun. We had a couple of Islamic extremists ranting and cursing us online for several weeks! Apparently this kind of humor doesn’t translate well.)

So I’ll just make one point before I disappear from your board. I have a lot of respect for what you guys are trying to do… like someone here said… trying to stop families and communities from being destroyed by drugs is an admirable goal. Believe it or not, MOST people who are pro-drug-law-reform also have the same goal in mind. Its not a simple minded, subversive plot to allow everyone to get high all the time. These people really do have some well thought out ideas and proposals for our current problems. Just keep an open mind and consider what they have to say. I don’t imagine any of you have genuinely socialized within the drug community recently, but I can tell you that you’d probably be surprised by just how many casual users there are around you every day… normal, productive, well-balanced people that cause no harm to others or to themselves. Federally funded studies and advertisements are as ridiculously biased as the most fanatical crack head’s ideas. We’ve got to approach ALL these ideas with a bit of skepticism and find a common middle ground. Kids today don’t trust any of the government warnings about drugs because of the gov’s long history of spreading FUD. If you want to know what educated kids know about drugs, go here: www.hyperreal.org. (Look under chemistry) This site was one of the first (if not the first) drug info site on the internet and I can’t imagine how many people its helped by providing trustworthy, unbiased information. If you guys are cops, you get to see more federally funded FUD than any of us. So, I just ask that you spend some time reading other sources of information.

I'm out of here... but feel free to email me blaaaaah@hotmail.com (yes its my real address).

[snowball]

Carp,

Although I disagreee with your philosophy, I give you some respect for coming clean. Had you used the second approach the first time, you may have generated a civil and meaningful debate.

Along with "Serpico6", I have seen the underside of mankind. I have seen "harmless" marijuana turn people into hard-core drug addicts and criminals. There are a lot of people that use drugs and are never arrested, and some can maintain a normal lifestyle. What you do in your own house, on your own time, only affects you. Most people (and many Cop's) dont care if you screw your own life up. But, when other people are affected either directly or indirectly, now we have a problem.

Have fun with your "hobby",

snowball:p

[try163]

Snowball,

you hit it right on the head with your last comment. I personally don't care what people do on their own time in their own private places. Its a problem when they bring it to the public and cause alarm, panic, and anything else that disrupts the safety of the rest of the community.

Carp, you stated there are many casual users who are normal, balanced, productive members of society. That may be true for people who use marijuana, but I have never met a casual heroin user, or cocaine addict, or crack user that had a normal and productive life. They're too busy fighting their withdrawl symptoms and then relaspsing days later.

And when you ask us to keep an open mind, I say, my mind is always open, and I don't need statistics or propaganda from the government or the society of peace, free love, and cannabis to tell me the good bad and ugly about drugs. Statistics can be skewed by any side in any way in any debate. Bottom line is that drugs are no good, and perhaps if you were on the inside as some of us are, and have seen the things that drugs do to people and what those people do to others you might have a difference of opinion. Like I said , my mind is open and I take your views into consideration, but I don't agree with them.

Take care



TRY163

[CarpFlounderson]

I was planning on disappearing from this board, but what the heck... I'm good for a debate. I did a fair amount of my growing up in some of the worst gang-lands of Philadelphia, so if anyone thinks I don't have real life experience with the problems of drugs, I'll swap stories with the best of you. But to put it briefly, I'll just tell you that I've seen a lot of bad things.

All you guys who all claim to disagree with me... you haven't said much that really disagrees with the drug law reform agenda. Like I said earlier, we DO have many of the same goals in mind. Often I find that these kinds of disagreements are more a misunderstanding than a disagreement. Let me give an example...

try163, you say that you even agree that it’s possible to be a casual marijuana user, but not a casual crack head etc. I agree completely. In fact, this is the basis for a lot of reformists' thinking. If there is an obvious difference between certain softer drugs, why is there no legal distinction? All these drugs are schedule 1 substances. If we're already making a distinction in the potential for abuse, we need to make that same distinction in our laws, and in drug education. It makes sense ethically, financially, and from a harm-reduction standpoint.

Ethically... do we really want to limit a kid's chances for a college education just because he/she smokes 1 joint? That’s what we're doing with the HEA (higher education act). If a student is convicted of simple possession of any amount of a schedule 1 substance, they loose their eligibility for student loans. Sadly, the most affected by this law is the kids coming from poor families. In those families no loans mean no college means stuck in poor communities. A higher education is a one way ticket out of a ghetto, be very careful about how quickly we take away that possibility. An even more disturbing law says that if you live in a housing project and your kid brings home a glass bowl with pot resin in it… you can loose your eligibility for public housing. Parents of teenagers know that you’re NEVER 100% sure you kid hasn’t experimented with drugs. Does that mean you should be less eligible for a roof over your head? The medical marijuana issue is also a biggie in this area. Wait till someone in your family is suffering from cancer or AIDS and someone clues them into the pain/nausea relief from marijuana… would you turn them in or arrest them? Of course not, so why should we be locking up other peoples’ dying family members? Don’t think this doesn’t happen. Ask any casual pot smoker “what’s the most dangerous thing about marijuana?” If presented as an option, I’d bet most of these folks would answer “the police”. The same is NOT true for harder drugs. We need to make a distinction in our laws that match this logic.

Financially… every war is a battle of economics. How many millions of dollars in profits do you think marijuana dealers/runners/growers make each year? I have no idea, but you guys know as well as I do, that it’s a bunch. Marijuana (and a few other soft drugs) could be removed from the black market, removing a large chunk of profits from the bad guys’ resources. Marijuana seizures only temporarily lower the supply. The reduced supply causes a rise in price… overall profits aren’t greatly affected. If you move marijuana out of the black market entirely and sell it like cigarettes or alcohol, you’ve moved the profits away from the true criminals… the bad guys with gangs and guns.

Possibly the biggest advantage of removing the harsh penalties for softer drugs is something a police officer should truly value. If more people felt they were being treated fairly by police, there wouldn’t be as much conflict between officers and citizens. The truth is that its acceptable for an officer to experiment with marijuana a few times in their youth. This leniency is applied for good reason, but it makes the PD look VERY hypocritical in the eyes of citizens who are subjected to harsher standards.

That’s it for now, do the right thing guys.
Carp

[Birky]

OK I disagree Marijuana is not a schedule 1 drug in my state it isn't even on a schedule. Simple marijuana possession in my state will get you a ticket and normally a fine. It is only a felony to possess more than a half ounce if you are selling it. And to prove that you are selling there have to be other things present such as baggies and scale etc. So part of your argument is wrong to begin with. Also marijuana users might be productive members of society but they also commit other crimes. Ask Trooper Mark Coates family if you think I am wrong. Police officers die because of marijuana and marijuana alone. So until they make it legal I will continue to take people to jail for being in violation of the law.

[SecretNY]

Gee, I thought carp made more sense when he was b.s.ing.

I had tears in my eyes.

SecretNY (taking bong hit, preping the needle...)

[try163]

Ok carp, I see your point but here is mine. Hypothetically, lets sell marijuana just like we sell beer and tobacco. Somebody has to profit from this right? Who will it be? The tobacco industry selling and growing marijuana to Americans? That industry is in deep enough with its lawsuits now, do you think they want to be pushing that stuff? Who else, oh yes the government. Well, of course they will profit because they need their revenues, but again is the US gov't along with any local state gov't going to win praises of the constituents because they are placing taxes on marijuana and saying its ok to use it? I don't think so.

So who else is there...yes the weed dealers right in your own community. You know the ones, privacy fences, house shades pulled down all the time, glares from them as they sit on their front porch with several other individuals as you drive past, people coming and going and congregating all hours of the day and night. Yeah they need to profit. They will profit regardless of regulation or not. Why should I go and by my weed at the convenience store for three bucks a pack when I can go to Joe's house and get it cheaper? Yeah and there is another idea, lets sell it like we sell cigarettes, in packs of ten or twenty. And then people can go smoke their weed and get high while driving their cars. Gee, I see it coming, the lawsuits and the acronyms for all sorts of lobbyist and organizations against marijuana impared driving. I've arrested many people for driving under the influence of marijuana. you can't tell me it doesn't have similar effects to alcohol. Which by the way, I 'm sure you are already aware of the numerous fatalities that occur every year due to drunk driving. I am just waiting for the day that a fatal accident occurs with a drunk driver and the relatives of the victim sue the pants off of these beer and wine makers. Its been done with cigarettes, its been done with guns, which I still don't understand, and its only a matter of time when it happens with alcohol.

So in the end, regulation has nothing to do with controlling or ceasing black markets. There are numerous regulations on guns and there are black markets for those. People will circumvent regulations if they know they can get away with it, and make money, and the threat of getting caught is low.

And, I don't see where there is a great deal of conflict between the police and the citizens. The only conflicts I encounter is from people breaking the law. If citizens didn't break the law there would be no need for police because nobody would do anything wrong. Its always the criminals that are misunderstood and should never be accountable for anything. They are the ones that have conflicts with the police. Not your everyday good upstanding citizen.

TRY163