View Full Version : Looking to buy first hand gun
Chuck29216
11-15-2002, 01:13
I travel a long distance between home and school a lot and now that I am about to turn 21 and going to be able to carry a concealed weapon with me I want to get some insight on what you thought would be a good weapon. I'm tinking of something with a .45 caliber. I have heard good and bad things about many different types so any information would be great. Any info on holsters would be appreciated. Thanks! :confused:
First off I'm not a weapons expert or have some of the extensive experience with firearms as some members who post on this board.
Personally I think that a .45 might be a little too much for a first time pistol buyer. They are pretty expensive and so is the ammo. Also trying to conceal a .45 might be a little difficult. A compact or subcompact .45 might produce a wicked recoil.
Like most people I started shooting with a 22 and eventually moved up the ladder. I currently own a Glock 22 (40) and a Glock 26 (9mm) subcompact. I use the 26 for concealed carry when I drive out to my parents ranch. I don't carry in town. I primarily chose Glock because I can get a good grip on them. And from what I've heard they also have a pretty solid reputation.
You're undoubtedly going to get a lot of opinions on who makes the best pistol and what caliber is best. Whatever you choose make sure that you are comfortable with it. Also make plans to stay a while at your local gun shop or show.
MrCool
:cool:
CanineCop
11-16-2002, 02:04
Volumes could be written on this.
1. Pistol (semi auto) or revolver? Revolvers are mechanically simple and relatively safe for novice shooters, they also tend to be cheaper. On the other hand the trigger pull on a revolver can be harder to master than the lighter shorter trigger stroke on a pistol. With pistols you must make a commitment to practice necessary to become intimately familiar with your weapon, you also have to spend more time maintaining a pistol.
2. Caliber? If you can only afford one gun and you need a self defense weapon I recomend a .38 or 9mm. These cartridges are readily available and inexpensive compared to .45 (again you will need alot of practice ammo) also their recoil is relatively mild. While a .40 or .45 is more potent than a 9mm they also kick more and are harder to shoot well. Hitting what you shoot at is way more impotant than what bullet you hit it with, you can teach yourself terrible habits by jumping to a more powerful cartridge to soon. A .22 can be very beneficial in building good habits and the ammo is CHEAP.
3. Go to your local gun shop and handle various guns until you find one that fits your hand. Don't spend your whole budget on the gun, you'll need a good holster and several hundred round of practice ammo. Professional training is also a good investment, some classes even provide weapons so you can experience shooting several different weapons before you choose one to buy.
Good Luck, K9
P.S. These are just my thoughts on the subject, I don't know much more than anyone else.
nclawdawg2001
11-16-2002, 18:10
Actually guys the Glock 30 in .45 cal when shooting speer gold dot 200 gr +p is one of the most accurate guns on the market right now. Its a compact pistol so its easy to concel.
A .45 is a great choice. Very accurate round. I disagree with the idea that it has much more recoil than say a .40 or a 9mm. My opinion is that its not enough to matter. As far as price, bullets cost about the same as any full size caliber. I will agree that I would learn to shoot with a .22 caliber such as a ruger. Real nice gun.
My advice would be to shoot many different brands and calibers befor buying. If you go with a semi automatic, it should have a german or austrian accent.
Once you get a good gun which you are confident in, I would recommend learning to shoot from someone that knows what they are doing. If you just go to a range and start sending rounds down range you will most likely develope bad habits.
Just in case your wondering, I carry a Sig p-220 .45 on duty and carry a glock 36 (mini .45) off duty. Both are exceptional.
Im 6'3 about 220 and I carry a full size 1911 extremely comfortably. Loose shirt and you would never know it was there. Now it the full size but they also make various lengths and you can pick up the Colt 1991 (has the firing pin block starting in 91 so they switched the name to 91 instead of 11) for about 400-450.
CanineCop
11-18-2002, 01:49
Well guys, I'll stick to my guns on this one. To clarify I was not attacking the .45s inherent accuracy, I was saying that a novice shooter will find it harder to shoot. I use a Sig 220 (.45) myself and like it very much but I have 20+ years of shooting experience. I am frequently asked to tutor less experienced officers in their shooting skills. I have found that they usually do better if started on a 9mm or .38 than they do jumping to a .357 or .45. At my local Longs Drugs where I purchase my practice ammo 9mm PMC costs $6.99 for a box of 50 and .45 PMC costs $10.99, that's about a 40% difference in cost.
On the original question I recomend that you not go to small. You need a gun you can conceal yes but go to small and you may have difficulty with recoil control and accuracy. Clamped in a vise a 2 or 3 inch barrel is as (inherently) accurate as a 4 or 5 inch barrel but the short sight radius makes them harder for a human to shoot. When it comes to concealment (within reason) your holster and belt dictate your success more than your weapon.
Again, my $.02, K9
Glockdude1
11-18-2002, 10:47
Chuck29216,
If you are new to guns and only want a gun with you for defense, the first thing you should do is:
Open your phone book and find a range that teaches firearm safety.
Take the course & pass it.
Get a license to carry legaly.
When you get to the range shoot different kinds of pistols with an instructor, so he can help you and answer questions as you think of them.
If you are not going to shoot very much, I say get a 5 shot revolver in .38 that will handle +P rds. This way if the SHTF, it is a simply procedure to use it if you have to. You would not have to operate the slide & safety in case of a malfunction.
:bounce:
Chuck29216
11-29-2002, 13:30
Thanks for all the info, but none of it really tells me what brands you guys like or don't like. I have been shooting for many years. I grew up around them so the recoil is not a problem. Any more info would be great. Thanks for everything so far.
Kahuna5150
11-29-2002, 13:57
Originally posted by Chuck29216
Thanks for all the info, but none of it really tells me what brands you guys like or don't like.
For every 10 guys that love Glock and hate the Sig, you'll find 10 that love the Sig and hate the Glock. I don't think anyone can answer this question for you. I personally like the Sig and the Glock. If given the choice I would probably pick the Glock. I have a friend that would never take a Glock over a Sig. The debate continues.
Personally I don't think you can go wrong with any of the "Mainstream" guns. Glock, Sig, S&W, Taurus, Berretta, Kel-Tec, Kahr, etc, etc. I have heard good and bad about *ALL* of these guns. Frame rails break on Berrettas, Glocks are having trouble with a small batch of their frame rails right now, S&W quality has dropped and they sold out to the gov, Kahr isn't made well, Taurus is a cheap knock off of Berretta, Kel-Tec... I wouldn't trust my life to that brand... etc, etc.
Again I can name the complaints I have heard for each gun, but I can also give you the praises... Glock... You can freeze it, burn it, drop it in salt water, ice, mud, and it fires everytime! Haven't cleaned mine for 10 years and it never malfunctions. Sig, best gun out of the box, so accurate, I shoot my and win *EVERY* shooting comp I'm in. S&W, they're one of the originals, so reliable, and quality craftmanship. CHP uses them they have to be awesome! Berretta... Military picked them, Border Patrol and INS use them, Mel Gibson had one in Leathal Weapon (well not technically a Berretta, but shhhh) the best of the best carry Berretta. Taurus is identical to Berretta and cheaper so they're even better than Berretta! Kahr is awesome, so compact, quality workmanship, great customer care! Kel-Tec... Have you seen their .32? Cheap, light, reliable. And their Sub-2000 carbine. Takes my Glock mags! AWESOME!!
I'm of course being dramatic here, but I think you'll find some of the biggest arguments in firearms come over calibers and brands. Someone will have a reason why you should carry nothing but .45, .40, 9mm, .22, or whatever flavor they like. One shot stops, accurate, cheap ammo, etc. Same with brands.. Someones uncle's cousin knows a guy at the range that saw a "INSERT BRAND HERE" malfunction, blow up, fall to pieces, shoot so off target... Personal advice... Go fit guns for your hand. Shoot some different calibers, then pick the one you feel most comfortable with, you shoot most acccurately with, and would trust you life to. Pick any of the above brands and I think you'll be ok...
Kahuna
Glockdude1
11-29-2002, 14:10
mmmmmmmmmmm..........................Which one would I choose........the G17, G19, G20, G21, G22, G23, G24, G26, G27, G29, G30.............I need more holsters!!!!!
:bounce:
nclawdawg2001
11-29-2002, 15:45
I'm fixing to go with the Glock 21 .45, if your in law enforcement you can get 13 round mag's, that's two less then the .40.
Why not go with the bigger bullet.
I have been a firearms instructor for 5 years now and I think that your choice should correlate directly with what YOU find that fits the hand, you can shoot well under some stress repeatedly and produces enough foot-pounds at the other end to knock the guy off his feet after enough rounds have been fired to stop the threat.
What I mean by all this is, go to a certified instructor, get all the legal stuff taken care of,and try to go to a shop that will let you try/rent a weapon so it can be tested on their range under the close eye of the instructor.
Find one that fits the hand. That is very important! I love the simplicity of Glocks and tell all my new guys to get one. Having said that, I CANNOT STAND TO SHOOT THEM!! The angle is all wrong for me. I have shot a Colt Gold Cup Commander for six years now. It was my duty sidearm with my old Dept. Before that, S&W third generation. What is right for some is not right for all.
On the issue of caliber, if you canot handle a .45 ACP, try something smaller. If you carry a smaller aliber, you will just need more rounds to get the job done. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT! As a civilian you are restricted to 10 round clips but no rule against carrying two or more clips though. Generations before us caried five and six and lived to tell the tale, might say something for shot placement and not for quantity of shots fired.
Make sure that part of the equation includes who will repair the weapon, not if but when it malfunctions. If you can get your hands on a maker-certified gunsmith in your area, all the better. If there is a variety of aftermarket parts to your weapon, great but it should not be THE deciding factor.
Hope this helps.
ed
Kahuna5150
11-30-2002, 01:37
Originally posted by nclawdawg2001
I'm fixing to go with the Glock 21 .45, if your in law enforcement you can get 13 round mag's, that's two less then the .40.
Why not go with the bigger bullet.
I have carried the 21 as my duty weapon. Also a Sig 229, Glock 22, and currently a Glock 19. The 21 is the biggest grip by far! Before you elect to carry the 21 just because it is only 2 rounds less than the .40... Try carrying it and shooting it for awhile. What about plain clothes carry/off-duty?
I liked the 21, but the grip was a bit big and I have big hands...
Kahuna
DJOHNSON954
11-30-2002, 07:24
What about the H&K? I would be interested in hearing some opinions about this weapon. I recently purchased the H&K USP 9mm. I shot the .45 and 9mm and feel more comfortable with the 9.
Glockdude1
11-30-2002, 10:09
The only thing scary about HK pistols is the PRICE They are more expensive than others, but, you get what you pay for.........An excellent pistol, no matter which one you pick.......
:bounce:
nclawdawg2001
11-30-2002, 13:58
I carry a H&K USP .40 on duty and its a great pistol, and your right you get what you paid for.
As for the 21, I've handled them, and they fit my hand perfect, I had to add a Hogue grip to my H&K to get it to fit just right.
the cal is something that you will prolly need to choose on your own cause only you know what you can handle, as far as brand i would say either a baby glock or a taurus.
Glockdude1
12-01-2002, 10:54
I too noticed the M92 he carried in a ankle holster. "Ah-nuld" can do it like no one else.
:bounce:
Geez im the only one that goes with the good ole 1911 :( Guess it better for than cuz that is more out there for me to buy :)
I'm all with you on the 1911 but most agencies won't allow them for carry, I think most people are only offering what they think would be a good self defence/on the job carry gun.
Lupey
I swear by the 1911 and good quality clones. The only problem is that I have seen and trained people who were/are VERY aprehensive about cocked and locked carry. Not everyone wants to handle a weapon in that condition. Most get over that fear once the safeties are explained and the advantages of a single action first shot is experienced. For 1911 and clones I favor the .45ACP, but have shot and like the .38 Super, and the old 10mm Full house round (Delta Elite by colt). Stout recoil but if controlled, great weapon.
ed
CanineCop
12-01-2002, 23:06
Chuck, if you're an experienced shooter that changes things.
Most of us are told what to carry by our jobs at least within limits if not exactly.
I love Sigs and like Glocks. Glocks tend to be cheaper and stand up better to perspiration when you're carrying against your skin or with a thin shirt in the dog days of summer. Glocks are also (I think) a little bit easier to conceal than Sigs. But Sigs are high quality and shoot like a dream.
If you think a single action is for you, a Kimber or ParaOrdinance would be hard to beat. Single actions are just as safe as double actions and easier to shoot but it takes some practice to make safety off and safety on a reflex. Also in some areas of the country, I've heard particularly in New England there is a PERCEIVED liability in Cocked and Locked.
If you just want to know what I like:
If I needed 1 gun for duty and off duty I'd use either a Kimber 1911 clone in .45 or a Sig 229 in .40.
If I just needed a concealment piece and concealment was the primary need, I'd go with Kahr or Keltec depending on my budget. A Kahr polymer preferably in either .40 or 9mm whichever I could shoot well.
Once again YOU need to pick what works for YOU and be happy you have a choice.
Take it easy, K9
Glockdude1
12-02-2002, 09:00
www.paraord.com is a great web site for para ordnance 1911 LDA pistols.
:bounce:
Originally posted by MrCool
Personally I think that a .45 might be a little too much for a first time pistol buyer. They are pretty expensive and so is the ammo. Also trying to conceal a .45 might be a little difficult. A compact or subcompact .45 might produce a wicked recoil.
MrCool
:cool:
I'm not talking trash about women, but we had a female in our academy that was about 5'4, 90lbs soaking wet, she was shooting all over the paper with a POS Taraus(spelling?) pistol, then someone handed her a .45 and she qualifed first time shooting a pistol....... Now that looks pretty ackward...... A big ole Colt .45 strapped on the hip of that petite female. haha
CanineCop
12-03-2002, 17:46
I know a couple of southern belles who both prefer the .44 mag. Many people with small hands including women have trouble with double column magazines and the fat grips they require. A single stack 1911 has a rather petite grip compared to a double stack wondernine. My wife swears by her Kahr 9mm (single stack).
Gonzo, you got good taste in guns amigo. I checked out the Companion on the Paraord site and I think I'm in love, I've never handled one though. If it's as good as it looks I might even cheat on my Sig.
Glockdude1
12-04-2002, 09:58
TheGreatGonzo,
"slap your sainted old mother", If your mom packs a 1911 .45, that might be the LAST time you slap her!!!!! LOL
:bounce:
Out of my HK USP 9, Sig 226, and Kimber .45, I prefer the .45.
Far more accurate for me, heavier hitting round, and Cocked and locked means no double action pull on the first round like the sig.
HK is nice, because you can flip the safety on when the hammer is back, and stay away from a nasty double action pull as well.
The 226 is nice, and I found some 18 round magazines for sale this summer.
Some days you feel like a nut - some days you don't.
I'd vote for the S&W .38 revolver. Many police dept's relied on this gun for years. And the one good thing about revolvers....you pull the trigger and nothing happens, you pull the trigger again.
On a lighthearted note:
Your first gun will not be your last, or even LAST in your collection. As a new owner and concealed carrier, count on changing within the year. Why? Well, you'll find a better "widget" to carry, a new design, better caliber, neater SOMETHING and off you'll go. So remember this is NOT a lifetime decision.
Second, EVERY law enforcement officer wants a gun that conceals like a .25 Browning, carries the loads of a double stacked magazine and of course, in something resembling the punch of a .44 Mag. Remember this....there is no such animal!
Buy something that fits your hand and you shoot well. Will it fit ALL the "desirables"? No, but you'll be well on your way.
You'll "settle" on what's best for you after several years and several guns...and a cardboard box full of holsters. Good luck!!
will2335
12-07-2002, 22:01
buy a glock 9mm they are great guns and very easy to shoot and clean.
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