Stopping power?

[D.C]

I am going to be buying a new handgun here in the next few weeks and I am considering getting a Glock.

I am considering getting either a Glock 21 .45ACP or a Glock 31 .357 Sig. I also have a Ruger KP97D .45 which I absolutely love.

But back to the question, which has more stopping power and is easier to handle, the .45 or the .357 Sig?

Thanks,

D.C

[Masscop]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by D.C
[But back to the question, which has more stopping power and is easier to handle, the .45 or the .357 Sig?
.................................................. .................................................
Ease of handling depends on the shooter{hand size etc.} and also the size and model of the weapon.

As far as stopping power, I just attended a tac. class and they said currently the top police rounds for stopping power in order were the;

1}45
2}357
3]40
4]9mm

[BOLO SIGNAL 44]

Originally posted by Masscop
[QUOTE]Originally posted by D.C
Ease of handling depends on the shooter{hand size etc.} and also the size and model of the weapon.

Ditto on what Masscop said. The difference in handling will vary from make and model in handguns. It's really about the shooter, and how he handles the pistol. A good quality defense ammo is another big factor that affects the over all performance.

The caliber size itself is not going to be the end all factor for stopping power. It is all about where you place the shots, and ballistic performance of the ammo you are using. You will find that the so called one shot stop caliber is nothing more than an urban legend. People have died with one shot from a 22, then there are cases where people have taken multiple hits from large bore handguns and survived to tell about it.

I have never fired anything chambered in .357 SIG, but if it's recoil is anywhere near the 10 mm, then it is not as bad as people make it to be. I currently have a Glock 20 and find it comfortable to shoot, but because of it's size, it's not my carry pistol.

As far as caliber selection, the price of ammo is something to think about. I am a big believer in if you are going to depend on it to protect your life and defend your family, then get out and shoot it as much as you can. With that said, the 45 is a little cheaper to shoot at the range compared to the .357 SIG. It might be a little more practical to stick with the .45 ACP since your Ruger is chambered for that caliber too.

As for the Glocks, the model 21 as you probably know, has a larger frame and wider grip than the 31. Find out which one is going to fit your hands and will be more practical for the things you are going to use it for.

[kennethm3]

I would recommend getting .40. I have carried the .357Sig, the hyper 9mm and am not impressed. It has super velocities but usually you can only find 125 grain duty rounds for it and practice ammo is a fortune. Go with the .40 in 155gr. hollowpoints. The INS loads are nice, a good balance of high velocity and bullet mass. You can also fit more of them in a magazine than a .45.

[ATF SAC]

I always subscribed to Robert C. Ruark's axiom to use enough gun. However, when talking about stopping power in a handgun, ain't happening. You have to balance two options that don't work well as a team. One is placement, put it in the oval true and consistent and the central nervous system is shut down and it is over. That may run contrary to controlled pairs depending on you. The second is bleed out. Bleed them out fast enough and they go unconscious, that argues for size more than anything or the old controlled pairs and thirds. That takes a lot freakin' longer sometimes than you want to be engaged which argues for consistency of placement.

Newton's law applies here. If it doesn't put you down it can't put someone down at the other end. Most non-mortally wounded persons go down because they have been trained to go down by watching Dirty Harry movies. I mean you can bust a leg and put someone down and not out.

Agency issue is usually a compromise of factors. Everybody can use it well; it will not level the city or bound down Broadway; and consistency of how it is used. Choices? Close, gotta love all those pellets; distance like above .30, medium can get a lot of 9 or .223 into your sorry self; close and surprised think .40 or plus is about right for most folk. Whatever, use it fast and well and more than once and then find a hole while they bleed.

[USSS1811]

i have carried 9mm, 40 S&W, and now 357 sig on duty. i was never ever worried about stopping power with any of them. some people out there are gasping right now, but that is my opinion. mainly i felt that way because a handgun just seems underpowered to begin with! but alas...

having said all that, i really feel comfortable with the 357 sig. it kicks like a 40 and it does create a fairly large muzzle blast by comparison to a 9mm. what i really like about the 357 is the fact that, theoretically, a bottlenecked cartridge is less prone to failure to feed type malfunctions.

you will be fine with either the 45 or the 357. figure out which gun you like better. there is a marked size difference between the glock 21 and the glock 31. i would hate to be shot (or shot at for that matter) with either one of them!

[Kahuna5150]

I agree with the above posts. You can fire a cannonball at someone and miss and it won't do as much damage as a slingshot round landed through the right eyeball.

I can show you a 9mm round that isn't worth a damn and at the same time come up with a 9mm round I would never hesitate to carry. You hear all the arguments. .45 is big, but slow. You're not punching through a windshield with that or a door. The 9mm is fast, but so small and light that it will take 50 rounds to even phase the bad guy and he will be able to beat you to death with you 9mm handgun before he goes down. The .40 is fine in most cases, but prone to Kabooms (they blow up guns because of the cartridge (ala Glock). Good luck with the 10mm it will rip your hand apart, and for the .357 Sig you'll be blinded by the blast and it's just a 9mm bullet anyway.

Anyone can of course take any of the above rounds and make just as stong of an argument of why it is the end all cure all round for defense and stopping power. Personally I say get the round that you can control the best (as not hitting your target means all ballistic properties go out the window). Unless you can find a round that when fired causes the intended target to have a heart attack instantly even if missed, then you're not finding the dream round.

I have carried the 9mm, .40, .45, on duty. I am back to the 9mm Glock 19 right now. I can put all of my rounds into a small (well small enough :) ) Circle rapidly from 20 yards. The .45 Glock I carried was also a great shooting gun. I think the .40 speaks for itself (as it's one of the most widely used for law enforcement now).

I don' t think you can go wrong with any of the calibers. Pick the gun that fits your hand best, offers you the adequate recoil you need. If you can shoot a 10mm as well as the .22 and it's authorized then I say go for it! If it's a toss up between the 9mm and .40 then I would always go for the bigger bullet personally. Good .40 rounds offer 9mm speeds and a heavy bullet.

Kahuna

[Erik]

Ahh... The stopping power debate. I'll voice my preference for bullets with diameters begining with the number '4,' back it up with the fact that while bullets may not expand, they never shrink, and leave it with that.

[nclawdawg2001]

I carry the Glock 21 .45 on duty, we carry 200gr +p Speer Gold Dot for duty ammo.

As for not being able to carry as many as the .40, I can carry 13 rounds, compared to your 15 round .40

I'll take the bigger bullet with two less any day of the week.

[Lupey]

.45 been stopping people for a century now :)

[USSS1811]

so has the 9mm:)

[BOLO SIGNAL 44]

...but if a .45 ACP round fails to expand, you still have a .45 caliber size hole. ;)











Sorry, had to throw that in there for a laugh.

Really, the 9X19mm catches a little to much flack. It is still a good round and it will be in service in a lot of places long after you and I are gone. Lots of good defense ammo out there for that caliber.

But on the other hand, I am still a fan of bigger calibers and stick with my .40 S&W and .45 ACP pistols.

[Kahuna5150]

Reminds me of a funny thing I overheard once in the locker room... One officer was talking to another officer about his choice of a backup gun. One officer carried a .22 backup while the other carried a .45 (AMT) as a backup.

The guy with the .45 kept telling the guy with the .22 that he might as well not be carrying anything at all since it was just a .22. The other officer replied, "Well I offer anyone to test what backup is better by shooting all rounds of any backup gun into the other guys face.... Of course since I only have a .22 I always get to go first....I've never been taken up on the offer".

Silly example, but true enough. We all have a caliber we prefer and all have those calibers we think are sub-par performers. Personally I don't think a say .25 is a great backup or defense round, but I wouldn't be willing to take one in the face, chest, arm, leg, or anywhere else for that matter.

Always remember.... Those of us in law enforcement can shoot 10 .50 caliber bullets into the chest and head of a suspect and he will still run a 4 minute mile while getting away. Any of us can be shot in the big toe with a BB gun and drop dead on the spot.

Give me a reliable gun with reliable ammunition and enough training to be a good shot, and I think I'll be more comfortable regardless of what caliber I'm given.

Kahuna













Sorry, had to throw that in there for a laugh.

Really, the 9X19mm catches a little to much flack. It is still a good round and it will be in service in a lot of places long after you and I are gone. Lots of good defense ammo out there for that caliber.

But on the other hand, I am still a fan of bigger calibers and stick with my .40 S&W and .45 ACP pistols. [/B][/QUOTE]

[USSS1811]

that reminds me of a funny story:

a friend of mine on a tactical team i served on as a local copper once told me that a leather jacket would stop a 9mm round. i offered to assist him in testing that theory, i even told him that i would supply the leather jacket. for some reason he was reluctant:)

it was moot anyway since we all had .40's down there. but that just makes me laugh whenever i think about it. the absurd b.s. that gets thrown around when this topic comes up. its like trying to figure out if chevy is better than ford. people want to go to fisticuffs over this stuff! just give me a gun that shoots when i need it!

[PPB8883]

IT DON'T MATTER WHICH ROUND YOU USE IF YA SHOOT EM IN THE HEAD.:D


I WOULD PUT MY MONEY ON A 9MM WELL PLACED SHOT ANY DAY.

PPB

[ATF SAC]

Handguns don't have stopping power, they make people bleed and when they bleed enough they stop (absent a smack to the heart or to the central nervous system). Balance is putting it in the central nervous system consistently and making them bleed. Go for consistent handling and placement, then move up til that fades a bit. That's your life saving caliber. then work through the other factors, 9mm is great, but not if folks wear heavy wool coats a lot of the time. 40 a good balance round. 357 limited in round, load variety. 45 swell, but lots of folks struggle with it. Then think agency wide. sometimes what you get is what your partners have left, nice to have consistency. No time to figure out how his or hers works differently than yours.

Got time, step on up to a rifle or shotgun. Newton's Law my friends, if it doesn't put you on your butt, it won't downrange either.

[ATF SAC]

From a US Army wound ballistician:

"If you didn't blow their leg out or hit them in the ovoid, they fall down only because they were trained to do so by bad movies and worse television." Shoot to kill; cover to live. Never go to a door or approach a situation without doing the following, "If a gun comes out, I'm going there." Next conscious thought you will have will find you there.

[erosado]

My intructor when I became a firearms instructor was Clive Shepard. His message was that no matter what caliber it is as long as it is a duty sized caliber, have enough rounds to put enought holes in the bad guy to do the job and choose a caliber that you can shoot well, fast and accurately. for some it may be a .38, .357, some others 9mm, .357 Sig, others .40, others .45, etc. Carry enough extra mags to finish what you could not do with the first one. Take your time in a hurry.

ed