Plateauing on pushups - DEA PTT in a month

[netman1019]

Hi folks,

My DEA PTT is coming up mid May and I'm noticing that I'm plateauing with my pushups. Currently on a good day I can max at about 50 which gives me 5 points (46-50 is 5 pts). 51-55 would give me 6 points, so I'm shooting for that.

Currently I do 3 sets of pushups (latest was 3 sets - 28, 28 & 32) every other day and sometimes I'll throw in 2 sets of diamond pushups at the end to work the inner tri. I'm focusing on good form and making sure I lock out at the top.

Do you folks have any suggestions on how I can further increase my max reps? My PTT is on May 12th. Thanks.

Jim

[nsedet]

Originally posted by netman1019
Currently I do 3 sets of pushups (latest was 3 sets - 28, 28 & 32) every other day and sometimes I'll throw in 2 sets of diamond pushups at the end to work the inner tri. I'm focusing on good form and making sure I lock out at the top.


This is how I was taught to increase reps on pushups:

Starting from a regular push-up position, do as many as you can until reaching muscle failure. Then continue again doing as many modified push-ups (knees on the floor) as you can until again reaching the point of muscle failure. Try to do three sets in this fashion.

[Justin]

Try putting a few textbooks in a backpack and max out your reps.

[netman1019]

NSEDET,

So in other words instead of trying to do a uniform number of reps per set and increasing that, you max out each set till muscle failure, then go directly to modified pushups till muscle failure. I must admit that while doing it my way I did see a gain, it began to feel a bit too structured after awhile, hence the plateau.

I'll try it today. BTW, is it overkill to also throw in negatives after muscle failure on the modifieds (essentially doing 3 types of pushups per set)?

JUSTIN,

I'll try the backpack or something that effect. Thanks.


Jim

[nsedet]

Originally posted by netman1019
I'll try it today. BTW, is it overkill to also throw in negatives after muscle failure on the modifieds (essentially doing 3 types of pushups per set)?

Jim,
Personal opinion here would be to skip on the negatives, at least initially. I am sure some of the other members on the board can provide a more informed opinion on that, though.

[Justin]

Jim,

I should have added that the backpack/camelback (filled with water) or other added-weight approach is a strength training method that should benefit your reps but should be done in conjunction with a non-weighted, endurance training approach like the one NSEDET proposes...sounds like you know this, but thought I'd clarify my posting.

Good luck!

-Justin

[krellum]

I was under the impression that negatives were for a totally different KIND of workout; for less reps, more concentration on the muscle, fewer sets, etc. Since you're looking for higher reps, that might not help you a whole lot in achieving more reps in the short term.

k

[CaptRidley]

Hard Dawg,
What about the pull ups, are you doing 20? You need to incorporate a workout program that builds towards both the pull ups as well as the push ups. There is very little you can do, aside from actually doing pull ups, but there is a lot that will help you improve on both parts.
I have noticed that the fastest way to improve on my pull ups, was (when I wasn't in the gym) to do a set of pullups, max effort, which usually meant 20 pull ups first time around. As soon as I got off the bar I would do 20 (four count) pushups so 40 of them, followed by a couple of stomach exercises. All of this was done after a 4 - 5 mile run, for 5 days during the week, and treadmill and weight training on Saturday.
Incline and decline dumbell press is what helped me get in shape for my pull ups the fastest. Get some push up bars as well and use a lat pull down machine at a gym as well.
My point is to make sure that you don't just focus on one item of the PTT, but incorporate a workout that covers all. Push ups will help on/with your pull ups and vice a versa. Stomach work out will help for the situps as well as the run. You are either born agile or not, so the shuttle run aside from doing wind sprints you are on your own there. Don't just run either. Do other cardio activity as well, such as the cross trainer, as well as a TAI Bo type class (if you are a member of a gym).
Also continue with whatever workout routine you have in place, even after you have taken and passed the PTT, as you will have at least 6 months of training before you have to do it again, but it could be later. I have stuck to the same routine since November and well it works for me. I'm doing five sets of 20 or more pull ups now, and I went from maxing out at 205lbs to 225lbs on the bench. I never had a problem with push ups, and even on a bad day, I'll get at least 70 of them. I'm doing stomach workouts everyday except on Sunday, but I'm not sure how many situps I'll be able to get, but I hope to get at least 8 or 9 points.
Keep us posted!!!
Out here!!!
Mike-D

PS., It takes a long time to get into shape, but it takes a fraction of the time to get out of shape

[netman1019]

I appreciate the feedback all around.

For the record I have been working on each event in the PTT and while I won't max out, I plan on doing better than the 15 points required. At the moment, I haven't reached 20 pullups. I'm trying to set realistic goals for my body so I can get as many pts as I can while preventing plateaus in any event.

I've been making gradual improvements in the other events like the pull-ups, situps and 2-mile (I was a cross country runner in H.S. & college). However I asked about pushups b/c I currently reached a plateau. If I obtain over 15 pts for the PTT I'll be happy, and several months down the road when I have to take the PTT again, if there is further improvement I'll feel even better knowing I'm getting in shape for the academy.

Jim

[dan721]

I will give you some advice on pushups. I think I am somewhat of an expert. While I was in high school I did 600 non -stop pushups. Alot of people probably won't believe me, but it is true. My method was to try and do one more pushup every day. I would do one set til failure at a time and I would do them morning, evening and bed time. The trick to doing pushups is the "front leaning rest position". That is the lock out position. When you arer approaching failure on the pushups, lock out and hold at the top. Count to ten and try to squeeze out as many more as you can. The goal is to try and do one more pushup every day. Eventually you will do more before needing to go to the lockout position and after a few months you will be doing a hundred or more without stopping to loockout and hold.I did them six days a week with only Sunday being a day off. While on this routine avoid heavy weight lifting especially on excercises that work the chest, shoulders and triceps. Make sure you are getting enough sleep and eating enough protein just as any other excercise program. When I did the 600, I could have done more. I actually trained until the pain from the burn went away and I would get a secong wind. At the time I was 5'7" tall and weighed about 170. Even now at age 32 I pump out 200 as a warm up to my bench routine. I have benched 505 at 198lb bodyweight and have won several powerlifting titles. At one time I was ranked in the top 10 in the country for my bench press and I owe it all to sadistic pushup training as a youngster. If you have any questions send me a PM.

[maddog]

Hello,

I am in the process and completed my medical. I have the psych test in May and do not have a clue what it is about. My PT is schedule for Mid-June. The process is going faster than I ever expected.

When talking to the recruiting officer he said that "80% of people testing on the PT are failling.." I understand that you need to score 15 or better. He said "The top 70% are scoring in the 20's". He wanted us to score above 20.

I have a degree in exercise science. This PT test is not hard. You need to get in shape. Doing just weightlifting will not help at all. I would reccomend doing push-ups, situps and pull-ups everyday. The more you do the better you will become.

I might be stupid. I am running 5 miles a day, swimming 8 miles (to lose weight), 5 * 40 push-ups, 5 * 40 Situps with a goal is to increase 5 each week and 5 * 10 pull-ups. I do these exercise every day. It all starts at 5:00am.

I weightlift every other day. Every Friday I go through the PT test twice.

If you want the job you will have to put your heart into it. Remember, the position you are applying for is very competitive. I know people have been waiting for 1 year to go to the academy. They scored in the 17 range. Another agent scored 45 points. He has been waiting for 3 months and will be in the academy by November. He is amazing. Think about who they will hire. I do understand all you need is 15 points. Make yourself competitive!!!!! The higher you score will show how much you want the position. GOOD LUCK and hope we all make it to the academy because they are hiring a lot of agents in the next few years.. Rumor has it over 300 next year.

[AFJAG]

I realize this is a DEA thread, but how does this PTT compare with the FBI requirements? The numbers seem similar. One of the posts refers to making yourself competitve by having higher PTT scores. Is this a factor in the FBI hiring process? My impression was that it was not (though you had to be ready for Quantico).

Thanks.

[netman1019]

AFJAG,

I know what you mean. My goal is to get at least 15 points, and if I get more I'll be happy.

In terms of scoring, it seems the main concern for both of those agencies is making sure you are in top shape to perform well in the academy. If you're not in shape, you'll be slacking off in exercises and you may end up getting injured. If you get injured and can't participate, the DEA ends up wasting money.

The issue about points has been discussed quite a bit here however some believe that the more pts you score the faster you'll get an academy date, however DMClark emphasizes 15 points. He's a DEA veteran, so I'm going with him :). However like I said, if I have a shot at getting over 15 pts, I'm going for it.

Jim

[CaptRidley]

A friend of mine is going through the process with/for FBI, and while the PTT is the same for both DEA and FBI AT THE ACADEMY, unlike DEA applicants, FBI did not require her to run an actual PTT. She only had to run 1.5 miles in a certain amount of time. If you were in a certain range, I guess it was assumed that you would be good to go for the academy. Personally I would much rather run the actual PTT prior to the academy, so that I know what it is all about, and more importantly where I stand.

I guess part of the reasoning is that many applicants were getting injured especially when practicing for the shuttle run.

Also, the DEA has recently lowered the point requirement, it is now 10 points to pass. I received a notice dtd March 7, 2003, and I quote "The policy regarding the scoring of the Physical Task Test (PTT) will change effective March 15, 2003, and we wanted to provide you with information as to how this affects you.... To minimize the possibility of injury and to maximize the probability of success in training, the following requirements must now be met:
--A minimum score of 10 points, with at least 1 point in each of the five tasks must be achieved...

--The number of times an applicant may fail a PTT will be limited to two times durng the entire application process. An applicant who fails the initial test will still have 30 days to re-take and pass the PTT with the new score of 10. The limitation of two times pertains to those applicants who initially pass the PTT but then do not maintain a fitness level. Two failures at anytime in the pre-employment process will result in your application file being closed. You would have a one year waiting period from the date of failure before being able to reapply.

--Effective immediately, the trigger pull will no longer be a test requirement.

Many of you already meet or exceed this new PTT requirement. However, we realize that for some, time will be needed to reach this new fitness level. Therefore, we will allow a 60 day training period for all applicants currently in the process who wish additional time. This means that anyone who has just completed a medical exam and is waiting a PTT date, anyone who failed the initial PTT and is in the 30 day re-test timeframe, or anyone who is updating a PTT exam in preparation for an upcoming class date will have 60 more days (until May 15, 2003) to prepare. After this date, all applicants will be required to take and meet the new PTT exam requirements whenever contacted by the recruiter...

We are endeavoring to streamline the time it takes to proceed through the hiring process and we also anticipate several more Special Agent classes this year. We appreciate the time and effort that you have invested in the application process. If you have any questions, please contact your recruiter."

Signed, Patricia A. Murphy
Chief Special Agent Recruitment

The very weird thing about this new requirement, is that on the point scale, there are negative points, which if you asks me, makes no sense if you have to score at least one point on every event.

Am I the only one who received this letter. I'm not making this up. I can scan and post this letter if you all want, just let me know.

About the PTT I have heard several stories. Some will say or tell you just pass the thing, others, and I must admit, they have all been Marines have told me to try and max it if possible. Whether they told me so or not, it is not in my nature to go for just passing. The average for the Miami Division I was told is 18 points, and they have regular PT sessions for applicants who used to be below that average, to monitor their progress I guess. Since I ran a 33 on my PTT I was told I did not have to report to these sessions.

Also, use the front leaning rest to build up endurance with your push ups, but remember you can not stop moving during the actual PTT, in other words, practice as you would fight, so you do it the same each and everytime. I would hate for you to be on say 50 pushups, when you start to feel some fatigue, and pop into a front leaning rest, as you just stopped the event, and you go home with 50.

I try to get as many as fast as I can, and when I tire down, I can knock out at least 20 more in a nice slow pace, which usually ends up with about 80 pushups, might be more by now. There is a belt you can buy that you wear like a weight lifting belt, and it has a chain in the front, which you use to attach weights (plates) to. If you can do say 10 good pullups with 25lbs strapped to your body, you will be doing 20 if not more in no time.

It is all about muscle memory, but you do have to rest. Some people need more rest than others. I only rest on Sunday. Doing the same routine day in and day out is very boring, but you have to remain focused on that goal, and it does work. As far as teh stomach is concerned, there is a good tape out there. I used it when I got myself ready for OCS in 95. 8 Minute ABS. Check it out. Do that tape everyday, five days a week, and rest two days, and you will be ok, plus you will have killer ABS as well.

Netman, have you received the new PTT point requirement?

Good luck to all!!!
Out here!!!
Mike-D

[netman1019]

Mike,

I received that letter a few weeks ago. I'm not really sure why they would add negative points to any event, since getting below 1 pt in any event fails you anyway. I'm also wondering why they dropped the minimum score to 10 pts overall.

It's like I was saying before, I want to score as many points as possible, but I also understand my body's current limits. That being said, I have a fairly good idea how many points I'll be able to earn on the PTT. The numbers won't be earth-shattering, but they'll be serviceable I hope.

That beings said, if I pass the PTT, I plan on continuing to improve and increase my fitness level up to the point I (hopefully) get invited to Quantico.

NSEDET,

Last night, I tried the pushups in the way you described (after maxing out each set, going right modifieds till muscle failure). I'm happy to report the next day, both the tris and the chest are sore :). Mmmmmm, prrrrogress.

Jim

[X21]

See previous posts on the score needed to get in to the academy. Scoring a 46, as I did, did NOT get me in any faster than those who scored a 20. It's been over two years and I am also competitive in other areas, but am awaiting a class date like many out there. As dmclark stated numerous times, higher than the min requirement will NOT get you in faster. Sure all things being equal between two apps, it may come into play, but there are a LOT of other things to consider about an applicant and the needs of DEA.

Something no one really has covered yet is recovery. You should NOT hit the same muscle group hard everyday as Capt R and a couple others do. By doing this you are not letting the muscles recover and grow the way they need to. Should have 48 hours between hard workouts for the same muscle groups, to include abs. One caveat on this, the super high volume routines, referred to by dan721, work for some, but they are very time consuming workouts.

I recommend high reps, then drop to knees and burn it out for 30 seconds. Do as many as you can using perfect form and throw a rest or two in there, then continue doing as many as you can in one set. Your numbers will go up and you should strive to increase the number you do before you take a rest each week. One way to get a rest on the test is to have "hand adjustments" which they allow for. Stop and move the hands a little closer and do a few reps, then stop and move them out and do a few more. It's a way to rest on the test within the rules they have set. Same goes for pull-ups. In addition to previous posts, I also recommend adding elevated push-ups with your feet higher than or equal to the height of your head in the UP position. This puts more weight on the upper body.

Something else that can help is developing the serratus anterior muscle, one of the primary stabilizers for the push-up. This muscle is located just below the armpit and after a day of a lot of push-ups, you may feel sore on your side, near the lattismus dorsi. One way to develop this is when you are in your normal UP position, push-up a bit more pulling your shoulder blades further apart. This muscle is key to providing a good solid platform in the shoulder girdle area for you to push from.

One other note is diet. You need to ensure your carbs and protein are up there and your fat is not more than 30% of your daily diet. I know people do some crazy things to lose a few pounds, which could be at the expense of performance. Good luck and be consistent. If anyone has any other ?'s or comments, feel free to PM me.

I also received the aforementioned DEA PTT score letter.

[LeCarre]

Now that you're thoroughly confused by all of our advice, let me throw my hat into the ring.

I maxed the PTT when I took it about three years ago and I regularly score 350+ on the Army APFT. My push-up score is usually between 120-130 in 2 minutes. While I'd suggest that you train equally hard in your sit-ups, pull-ups, and especially the run (that's for another thread), something that you might try is a 2 minute drill.

Okay, I heard all of you Army guys groan out there! For all the retarded training one does in the Army, this one seems to have some merit. In Basic/AIT, the only real focus on the PT is to max the PTT. Hence, they have some expertise in the matter. For the 2 minute drill, your first set will be to do as many push ups as you can in a 2 minute period. Stop, wait two minutes, then do as many as you can in 1.5 minutes. Stop, wait two minutes, then do as many as you can in 1 minute. All the way down to 30 seconds. Doing this every other day should help your numbers go up.

Technique is REALLY important. Your grader may require that you go all the way until your chest touches the ground. He/she may only require that your elbows break the plane across your back. Go shallow for the first few to see if they count them and if so, only go down that far for the rest of the test. They may require that your hands be directly under your shoulders, but if they're a little lenient, go a little closer together. This will incorporate more triceps. Look forward, not down. I don't know why this helps, but some say that it helps you to avoid vertigo. Get a really high number fixed in your head before you begin. When you burn out, lock out, rock back on your legs to take some of the pressure off your chest. Do five more, repeat until you're only knocking out one or two at a time. THEN, turn your hands sideways (facing out) and knock your last few out. I've often found that if I'm down to only doing one or two in the regular position, I can do five at a time with my hands pointed out.

Whew! The endorphines are starting to flow as I'm writing this!

[X21]

LeCarre,
The extended scale for the Army APFT is no longer authorized, although units still use it. The memo is posted on the USAPFS website. They got rid of the extended scale a while back, I think when they changed the run time standards in 1998.

That is a good workout you mentioned. You are right, technique is very important and seeing what you can get away with from the graders is a smart move as well.

[tre8]

How does this point system work?????? How many points for how many reps in each excersise????:confused:

[Perezi]

Check the thread entitlted

DEA PTT chage effective March 15, 2003

or search for dea pt or ptt and you will find loads of information on the scoring system and why people do and don't think its important to score high.

[tre8]

thanks perezi

[netman1019]

Great thread and I appreciate all the input you folks contributed! I'm definitely implementing some of this stuff. I've also noticed recently that while doing pushups, even though I'm lefty, it feels like I'm favoring or using my right side/arm more. Wondering how to correct or at least stabilize that so my left side is doing more of the work.

It's either that or perhaps my left side is actually strong and isn't feeling it as much. Does anyone else experience this while doing pushups?

Jim

[LeCarre]

X21:

Yeah, it's a pity that they don't officially count the extra points above 300, but it's sort of on an "unofficial" level. If the merit list includes two guys who've maxed, they certainly look at how far over 300 each guy goes.