Annual PT tests

[nj1118]

I'm currently training like hell for the DEA PTT, which has me thinking a lot about physical fitness standards.

I think most people agree that pre-employment PFT's are good. I'm interested in hearing people's opinions on whether annual physical fitness tests for current LEO's are a good idea.

I think they are a good idea, unfortunately most agencies in this area do not have them. NJSP has one, you don't get fired if you fail, but your promotions are held up. Physical fitness is crucial for LE, not just in doing the activities of the job, but in getting respect from the public. I hate to say it, but IMHO if you wear a uniform in public you give up the right to be fat.

Obesity is a major health issue, especially in a stressful job. How many line of duty deaths have you heard of where the death is caused by heart attack?

The best argument I have heard against having the test is that it increases the risk of injury to officers (during training or testing).

So, what do people think?

[K9 Police]

I think it would be a good idea in theory. However, the actual practical use of implementing it into policy and procedure might be a difficult one. It would have to be decided what would happen if one would not meet the objectives, etc. It costs a ton of money to hire a new LEO and I don't think many departments have the funds to dismiss veteran officers because of physical limitations, and subsecquently hire new LEOs. It would be my hope that LEOs would want to be in the best possible shape just based on the line of work we are in, not because they are forced to.

Out of the agencies I know of in WI and MN, I have never heard of an annual PT test at any departments.

K9

[rockyraider]

Never heard of mandatory phy. fitness standards once out of the academy, but some do have a fitness testing system that works like a bonus or incentive program. The PD I'm hoping to get on with right now has a fitness incentive program where you run a fairly simple obsticle course, it was described as being not very challening, and if you complete it in under the required time you recieve $100/mo. physical fitness incentive pay. It was described that if you are even in any hint of shape, it shouldn't be a problem. The unbelievable thing is that the recruiter stated that only about 1/2 of the force takes advantage of this almost free money. I think that LE agencies should have some type of fitness standard. The military does it so it's obvioulsy not impossible to implement. With lawsuits and such today, I think that liability to the department could be a motivating factor against this type of program though.

[nypd0124]

I wish that more depts/agencies implemented such a program where physical standards were continuously tested throughout one's career. It would have been nice to see that in the NYPD as the vast majority never work out again out of the academy and soon become poor slobs. It gives such a bad impression and makes all of us look bad. I was very impressed with LAPD -- they seem to keep their guys in good shape.

I believe some of the feds maintain an annual PT.

[LIdiesel]

I was just talking about this topic with a friend of mine
the other day. I think there should manadatory
physical fitness testing.

However, I can't imagine the police unions ever
agreeing to such a thing.

[dmclark]

The issue is STANDARDS after the initial ENTRY-LEVEL standard. These standards must be accepted by the agency, government, courts, etc. as being enforceable.

For the federal 1811, the ONLY CURRENT ENFORCEABLE STANDARD is the entry-level standards, so therefore, no annual PT standards can be enforced. Oh sure, you can get a letter, you can get your promo help up, but legally, they cannot separate you if you can't meet PT requirements.

What's the standard for a 40 year old agent? It certainly shouldn't be the entry level standard for a 22 year old agent. Don't forget, there are also MEDICAL standards that go along with the PT issues. Hearing levels? Almost all will lose upper level ranges by 40-45. But the only STANDARD for 1811 is entry level again.

This is a huge issue and has been fought for years on the federal side with little success.

[Paul E. Nunis]

If implemented, it would quickly provide a way for management to get rid of career officers a few months short of retirement.

Paul

'Those who would know the future must look at the past.'
Patrick Henry

[td6181]

I believe the U.S. Marshals in my local district take their FIT test every 6 months. If a person performs well on the FIT test, they get paid time off. If they do not perform well, nothing adverse happens to their job (other than not getting extra paid time off).

[MAX STEEL]

DOE couriers have to do a PT test every 6 months, when I was a deputy I saw lots of people that were out of shape and could not run up a level of stairs without having a heart attack. Just what you need when the fight is on and your back-up has to stop and rest before coming to your aid. I think Annual PT test are a great concept.

Max

[Minotaur]

I thought I recalled reading that the USPP has the officers perform the PEB test every six months.

[CustomsCop]

The VA requires there officers to pass a PT test based upon the army's physical standards. Ive heard there are several lawsuits reguarding the PT and it looks like it will be scrapped outside of the training requirement.

[dmclark]

Again, those lawsuits are that the agency has no acceptable, DEFENDABLE standard, whether they "adopt" the Army standard PT tests or not. The Army standards do have an age variance, but that has not been made the standard for the agency.

Lawsuits will win and they'll be again, no standard.

Attempts to place standards on employees ALREADY on board have been ruled as a change of employment scope, therefore illegal. You can't tell me after 15 years on the job that I have to do this and that to STAY on the job. You COULD give me a Physical Requirement that lays out my PT standards for the next 20 years BEFORE I come on the job. When I sign the agreement, I agree to maintain those standards. THAT is more enforceable, but there are still "windows" to get around it.

Injured On Duty? Do you still meet the standard? Do we get rid of you if you can't do X number of pushups because you were shot in the triceps years ago and the wound is still dibilitating? Mandatory retirement? But you can work just fine, just can't do more than 20 pushups?

There's alot of issues in creating physical standards that go well beyond just being in shape. For an LEO, physical conditioning should be a PERSONAL requirement before an agency mandate.

[nsedet]

As dm has said, enforcing PT standards for current agents is basically a non-issue in the GOV. Many agencies do have annual or semi-annual testing, but nothing significant happens to agents who can not meet the established standards. My agency tests twice a year...if an agent fails to meet the standards, he or she is supposed to be placed on a remedial training program by the office's PT coordinator...if the agent continues to fail the exam, well, nothing happens.

As for the concept, I don't think PT standards for current agents is a good idea...it works well in theory, but the practice is less sound. My agency requires us to run 1.5 miles in something like 15 or 16 minutes...not a high standard, but I can guarantee you that NO ONE in my agency has ever had to run 1.5 miles as part of this job. So how do you justify holding an agent to that sort of standard when it is not a requirement of the actual position? How do you discipline an agent for not being able to run 1.5 miles when the job itself would never demand that? Where do you draw the line between legitimate demands of the position and an arbitrary testing standard? Mind you, I absolutely believe that agent fitness is critical, and well overlooked by too many agents...I just don't think the GOV is capable of clearly defining what standards an agent in a given position needs to meet to do the job. What agencies should do (and many already do) is have fitness programs, available facilities, PT coordinators, etc., and allow agents to work out on duty or on LEAP time. I think all you can do is provide the opportunity and perhaps some incentives to agents.

[nj1118]

I definitely agree that imposing a requirement on people already in the job is not fair. And, as people pointed out, there would definitely be litigation over it if the consequences for failing were severe. Many people who have taken PT tests know the feeling of banging out 10 pull-ups and being told that only 2 counted because of form. It sucks and it would probably cause people to sue.

I guess the best way is to have a bonus for officers who voluntarily meet the requirements, although people might try to sue over that too, I suppose. The DRBA police (Delaware River and Bay Authority) are allowed to work out on duty, maybe that's another way to do it.