Engine v. Ladder

[nyfo]

Can someone explain the varing differences between an engine/pumper and a ladder.

[JimSpoor]

Although there are many design variations and overlaps here is the generic breakdown:

Pumpers/Engines: These put the wet stuff on the red stuff. Trucks will have large hose beds and hi-cap pumps of at least 1500 GPM (gallons per minute) Most will have a smallish on-board booster tank (300-500 gals) for supply until you can hook a hydrant.

Pumper-Tankers: Engines that have a larger tank(1500 gal or more)

Tankers: These pieces of apparatus carry large volumes of water for areas that do not have ready access to water.

Ladders: The main purpose of these trucks and their crews is to gain access to structures, venting operations, and "hasty" search. These trucks carry a large array of ground ladders and have different on-board ladder systems as well. Aerials, towers, and buckets are some examples of different types of ladder trucks.

There are many more types of apparatus on the fireground, command, rehab, rescue, brush, quints, etc. I hope this real basic look at types of apparatus has helped though. Also don't be surprised if you find engines with a ladder or two on them. Don't be confusedif your tankers have 2000 gpm pumps on them. As I said the definitions do get blurred quite a bit.

[nyfo]

no my eyes have not decieved me, I can indeed tell the difference between a ladder and an engine but I was refering to the difference in the way their personel fight fires.

[JimSpoor]

I must have missed where you mentioned crew or tactics in your question.

Engine crews are primarily concerned with getting, putting, and keeping water on the fire. Ladder crews are primarily concerned with gaining access to the structure and usually are the crews doing primary or "hasty" searches. Roof operations or venting obviously fall into the domain of the laddermen. Of course an engine crew is fully equipped for interior attack or search and rescue. It all depends on when the resources arrive at the scene. One is not more glamorous or easier or harder than the other. It is personal preference. Many firefighters even switch back and forth.

[CPD-Dispatcher]

Originally posted by JimSpoor
I must have missed where you mentioned crew or tactics in your question.


No You didn't Jim

[nyfo]

Originally posted by JimSpoor
I must have missed where you mentioned crew or tactics in your question.

You didn't, it was just the way I phrased it that was misleading.

Thanks for your reply and information on the ladder truck. Do you (or anyone else) have information as to the primary responsibilities of the engine/pumper crews? Thanks bro.

Ohio guy, if you have some information to share then great if not, don't waste the time trying to be clever with the condensing remarks.

[Birky]

Originally posted by nyfo
no my eyes have not decieved me, I can indeed tell the difference between a ladder and an engine but I was refering to the difference in the way their personel fight fires. NYFO you mean like this one?

[BOLO SIGNAL 44]

When thinking about the duties of a ladder or truck company, think of the acronym LOVERS-U.

Ladders; A Truck company has primary responsibility for placing ladders around a structure under fire--at ground level, on roofs and aerial platforms--to provide entry for attack, rescue of victims and (if necessary) rapid egress of firefighters.

Overhaul; Generally (though not always) conducted after the fire is extinguished, overhaul is the process of opening up enclosed spaces (such as inside walls or under roofs) to search for and eliminate "hot spots" which might cause a fire to re-kindle.

Ventilation; An enclosed fire area, full of superheated smoke but very little oxygen, presents a great flashover hazard to engine crews conducting the primary inside attack with hose lines on a fire. By ventilating, or opening exhaust ports in strategic locations in a building's walls or roof, truck companies help to manage the fire's behavior.

Entry; Often of the "forcible" sort. Attack crews can't do much against interior fires if they can't reach them, and fires often occur behind locked doors. Truck crews use power- and hand-tools (and a fair amount of brute force) to remove locks from doors, remove doors from hinges, and create "doors" in walls where there had been none.

Rescue; Truck crews are well-trained in primary and secondary searches for entrapped victims. This is a a job best performed on the hands and knees, by touch rather than sight inside the smoky black depths of a structure fire.

Salvage; The other side of the "Overhaul" coin, salvage involves the protection of undamaged property from smoke, water, and Overhaul itself. Salvage operations direct water runoff and move or cover property so as to retain as much of its value as possible.

Utilities; Specifically, controlling public utilities to facilitate an orderly fireground. Natural gas supplies must be shut off quickly to reduce the chance of explosion, and electricity is a particular hazard to firefighters who frequently work soaking wet and at the end of a solid stream of water, which is as good a conductor of current as an iron bar.

[JimSpoor]

Originally posted by JimSpoor
Engine crews are primarily concerned with getting, putting, and keeping water on the fire.

Nyfo,

I thought this made it pretty clear. Of course the work of the "hose jockeys" entail much more but this is the most basic component.

[DoD NucE]

The role of the modern engine and ladder companies and for that matter rescue companies are changing quite a bit to face budget crunches and still provide adequate service. In departments that run ALS in addition to either a department ambulance or a private BLS ambulance it seems that usually it will be the engine crew that will respond for the ALS duties. Also in FDNY the truck company responds to traffic accidents and carries the extrication equipment. It is only for very specialized cases that a rescue unit will be called. Also in NYC the NYPD ESU perform some extrication and rescue functions as well. Another thing to consider is the increasing prevalence of telesquirts and snozzles on engines, as well as the increased use of quints. These things have all served to blurr the lines of the typical fire department setup. So as far as basically what an engine company and truck company do, that has been covered, but the actuality of what each role performs is different from department to department. I would recommend the Essnetials of Firefighting book, release V I believe, as an excellent source of basic roles of each crew.