Am I the first poster here? Looking for push-up/pull-up improvement routines.

[zz25]

Anyone have suggestions for push-up and pull-up routines? How many days a week for each exercise? Should I be doing just pull-ups one night, and just push-ups another night? Thanks all for any advice. Great idea for a folder!-----------ZZ

[netman1019]

zz25,

To be blunt, when I first started out with pullups...I sucked, and was discouraged. I could barely do one rep on my own. After a few months of working out I managed to do 8 reps for my DEA PTT (4 points), which for me was an enormous improvement. The best part is I feel I have a lot of room for further increasing my pull-up reps.

Here's how I did it. This isn't my entire workout...just the part pertaining to pullups:

Every other day or sometimes with two days' rest in between:

**Gravitron pullup/dip machine**. Thank GOODNESS for these things. I started off putting about 70-80 lbs of assistance on it. Since I never incorporated pullups into past fitness workouts, the key for me was getting the reps in and training the muscle.

It was very important to me to match the form DEA required as close as possible. This meant shoulder-width or slightly wider grip, palms facing outward. Start off arms fully extended, pull yourself all the way up till chin goes over the bar, go down and fully extend arms. Repeat.

That being said, my initial goal was high reps (15-20+) with weight assistance. I did 3 sets. As the weeks passed, I gradually removed the weight assistance one plate at a time. Also, early on, I wore weight gloves.

During days in which I was simulating the test, I would not wear weight gloves b/c they're not permitted for the DEA PTT. Also, I would remove all weight assistance and lift...body straight.

Eventually I was working out w/ only 20-30 lbs of assistance on the Gravitron. I was still doing 3 sets however I was now doing about 8-10 reps.

I had to kneel while using this particular Gravitron. Some Gravitrons enable you to stand on a platform while providing weight assistance. I would recommend those over the kneeling-type b/c it simulates the DEA PTT more closely. For DEA, your body must be straight for pullups...no bending knees back.

Worthy of note: I would always incorporate my pullup-type excercises at the beginning of my workout. Why? It's a tough exercise for me and I needed all the energy I could muster. Also, it's the first exercise in the DEA PTT.

** Lat Pulldowns **: Two other exercises I utilized were the front and rear (behind the neck) lat pulldowns. These were a great supplemental exercise for my back. I didn't use weight gloves for these exercises. 3 sets front, 3 sets back. Use perfect form and BREATH. I did the lat pulldowns right after doing my pull-ups.

Hope that helps. I think I can get myself to possibly 10-14 pullups for my re-cert.

*Please note: Make sure you are training for the exercise using the form THAT agency wants from you. DEA may be different from FBI. For example, DEA situps are different than FBI's.

Best of luck.

Jim

[SingleJ]

Since your test will probably include doing one right after the other, I'd suggest getting some practice that way. Some of the shoulder muscles are used in both exercises, and I've noticed that I can do significantly fewer pushups after I've just done a set of pullups.

[Brindle]

My $0.02 …

I agree with the “train as you would fight” philosophy.

Hence I would add that if you can only do, say, two pull-up’s (real DEA ones), then workout with low-rep sets, whether it be pull-down’s or using the Gravitron machine. I have not used the Gravitron machine so I can not tell which feels more like a real pull-up. If you want to work out harder, then increase your sets and/or resistance; but don’t increase your reps to be much greater than what your real pull-up’s are like. I got stronger faster after I switch from a high-rep pull-down’s to sets with reps closer to the pull-up reps. Another thing with high rep sets is that there is a temptation to not work each set as hard; at least that is how it is with me.

For pull-up’s especially, I would suggest waiting till your delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) is completely gone before working out. What you do not want to do is workout too often and cause your gains to actually be SLOWER than they otherwise would have been if you worked out less frequently. I think the key is listening to your body and keeping your finger on the pulse of how you are “healing-up” and “re-generating”, in other words waiting till your DOMS is completely gone. Generally, I would do enough sets so that my DOMS would not completely go away for about three whole days. My pull workout consists of about five to seven sets.

Pull-up;
Pull-up;
Pull-up, Seated-row;
Pull-up, Seated-row, Dumb-bell curl;
Pull-up, Seated-row, Dumb-bell curl;
Pull-up, Seated-row, Dumb-bell curl;

I think the pull-up is a tough exercise. If you look at the kenesiology, only “smaller” muscles are used. Also unlike the push-up and sit-up, the pull-up is a “low rep” exercise, thus, as I have mentioned, more similar to a power lifting, low-rep experience than the other two. Furthermore, the shoulder muscle/joint and rotator cuff is a fairly complex area and prone to injury. I think I read somewhere that injury to the shoulder joint rotator cuff is the number one reason why pro athletes retire. In any case, to keep my shoulder development balanced (I mean performance wise and not aesthetically) I cycle-in a few sets of seated row exercises (that is after doing about two or three pull-up sets). I also cycle-in to my push-up workout a few sets of dumb-bell upright presses and rotator cuff exercises (that is after doing about two or three push-up sets). I do my pull workout on Wednesday; and do my push workout on Saturday. I find that having a few days between these workouts helps my DOMS and increases the quality of my workouts.

Another thing I found that helps pull-up’s is loosing weight. For example, I could do 23 pull-up’s (first set) and 15 pull-up’s (second set) with 10 lbs in a back pack on my back. Over about six months I went from about eight pull-up’s to 23 (and also lost about 25 pounds).

Don’t get hurt. Don’t get sick. Just keep at it and you will see improvements.

[RezMo]

Netman1019's suggestion regarding the Gravitron machine is top notch advice.This machine is fantastic for increasing your reps. on pullups/chinups.You can set the machine to handle whatever percentage of your bodyweight that you want.I have found this machine to be of great assistance in my quest to do an ever-increasing amount of chins and dips.The most overlooked aspect regarding pullups is that your bodyweight plays an important part in determining your success.Since this is a bodyweight resistance exercise;the more you weigh,the harder your muscles have to work and therefore less reps.Don't forget to do plenty of cardio. and maintain a healthy diet.Good luck.:)

[K9 Police]

Excellent advice! Can't say much more other than I found that the more I worked my upper body (bench press, lateral press, curls, etc) the easier it was for pull-ups. If you are training for a PT test, as stated, remember that you will have to conduct all the tests most usually the same day. I found that after doing leg presses, my run time is much slower. Gotta work on that still.

K9

[CaptRidley]

Hey whatever works works.

This my .02

I don't use the gravitron machine, or others like it. I may get a buddy to hold my feet or something like that, but I will stay away from the gravitron.

Quick story for you. There was a time at The Basic School (TBS) where the newly commissioned Marine Officers would practice tactics with paint guns. You have a jam with a paint gun, immediate action to clear that jam or misfeed, is what, you shake the paint gun, until you dislodge the paint balls that are trying to double feed.

Ok, they got the tactics down and everything. Now same scenario but with M-16's and blanks. Immediate action for an M-16 is totally different from immediate action for a paint gun. When there was a jam or a misfeed wouldn't you know it that some of the officers shook their M-16 (this is what I heard not what I know).

If anything add more weight/resistance. And I always say this. Imagine if you would please, you are a POW and the POW camp is in the center of a circle and this camp is surrounded by however many other circles (use the minimum required pull ups for say the DEA PTT, I do not know what that number is, but lets say its 5).

It absolutely burns me, when people see me doing pull ups, and when I jump off teh bar after doing 20, they usually always ask me how much I my weight is. I'll say 160 and they say man if I was your weight I would be able to do that many as well. So then I'll strap on two 25lbs plates and still knock out 10 - 12 pull ups.

You want to get better and stronger at pull ups, do pull ups, regular pull ups until failure and if you have a buddy present do a few more assisted.

Jump off the bar and knock out some quick push ups. I usually do 10 four count push ups after either 20 or 10 pull ups (without weights I do 20, with weight I'll do 10).

Other exercises to help you out with your pull ups are the decline bench with either dumbells and/or a straight bar, military press. The key is to not over focus on the pull ups and neglect or fail to maintain the other aspects of the PTT that you are weak or good at either.

Again, this is just my .02 Also, one may not always have the luxury of having a gravitron with them. Also if you are using the lat pull down, and your weight is say 180lbs, don't just use 180 on the machine. If anything start with 180lbs, but remember that your legs are used as/for support as well, so you need to put at least 200 - 210 on there to take away for the work that your legs are helping on.

Get one of those dip belts, that allows you to strap on weight, and I assure you will go up in the number of pull ups faster then when you use the gravitron. Get one of those door jammy pull up bars, but yourself a weight belt as and 10 - 15lbs weight plate, and in between movie commercials knock out some pull ups as well. What we used to do in my platoon. Everytime a Marine left or entered the compound he/she would have to perform a max set of pull ups. This did two things, it made my Marines stronger, and they stayed in more and more work was done as well, and they always made sure if there was anything else that needed to be brought some where out side the compound so that they did not have to make another trip. Now that is muscle memory!!!

In any event, any improvement, even slow improvement is better than no improvement at all.

Out here!!!
Mike-D

[Brindle]

Originally posted by CaptRidley So then I'll strap on two 25lbs plates and still knock out 10 - 12 pull ups.Wow!!! That is great!!! How many pull-up's can you do? I bet it is like over 30.

Are you going for the DEA, USMS, etc. record(s) for any PTT's? I heard the DEA's record is like 34.

Also, how long or fast does your pull-up's increase? Mine is about two per month, is that about right or as fast as one can develop, in your opinion?

I know that you have been able to do a lot of pull-up's for some time now and that you may have had to do pull-up's and push-up's in the same workout. Could you post your "ideal" entire workout regimen/splits (running, lifting, etc. ; including pull-up's)? (When I mean "ideal," I mean if it were up to you and not like your commanding military officer.) For example, when you work pull-up's how many sets (and reps) do you do, and how much weights do you hand from your waist, etc.?
Originally posted by CaptRidley Other exercises to help you out with your pull ups are the decline bench with either dumbbells and/or a straight bar, military press. The key is to not over focus on the pull-up’s and neglect or fail to maintain the other aspects of the PTT that you are weak or good at either.
...
Get one of those dip belts, that allows you to strap on weight, and I assure you will go up in the number of pull ups faster then when you use the gravitron.
Wouldn't exercises like seated rows, one-arm bench-rested dumbbell pull-back's (not sure if this is the proper name), or even curls be much better for pull-up's than "pushing" exercises like those you mention (decline bench, military press, and dip's)? Or perhaps you are saying that developing in balance helps speed progress for the pull-up's.

Hey, Capt, thanks for all your posting and help!!!

[CaptRidley]

The most I have done straight is 30.

I'm not out to set or break any records, just want to maintain getting 20 pullups easy and/or still having enough in reserve for when the SA at Quantico keeps saying 18, 18, 18 for improper form.

I used to do 5 sets in the beginning, I have since toned it down to three stes, as I was killing my elbows.

I would start with cardio first. Either run a quick 2 miles or run for 30 minutes, which would give me between 4 - 5 miles, usually 4.5.

Then I make my way to the pull up bar. I would start with a stomach routine borrowed from 8 min abs. If I have my weight belt, I will grab a 25lbs, but I have worked out with 35lbs as well as a 45lbs. When I used to do 5 sets, I would do the heaviest weight for one set, and the other weights for two, so it was 25, 35, 45, 35 and 25. Again this was between a stomach exercise.

So, cardio first.

Move to pull up bar.
Do stomach routine
Do one set of pull ups. If using weights, 10 - 12 pulls ups, if n o weights 20 pulls ups. Drop down, remove weights, and knock out 10 4 count push ups (20 pushups).

Make my way to the calf press machine and start at 160lbs (but go up in weight up to 200lbs, so that I do 160, 180, 200, 180 and 160, if doing five sets). When done with the calf press machine, start back at the beginning (Stomach routine). Stomach I will do either 50 4 count crunches (100 crunches) or 100 4 count crunches (200 crunches) per set. If I'm doing 5 sets, I'll do 50 4 count. If I'm doing only 3 sets I'll do 100 4 count.

On the calf raise/press machine I'll either start at 160, and work my way to 200 in three sets or I'll just do all three at the same weight usually 180 or 200.

When done with this, I would move to the bench press.

Do one set at 135lbs, 185lbs, 205lbs and 225lbs

In between I would go to the butterfly machine and very light weight 40-45 lbs just to stretch, and go back to the bench for the new weight.

Sometimes I stop at 225lbs other times I'll drop back down from 225 to 185 and then 135.

After this I go to the cross cables, and do a standing curl with 30, 40 and 50 (per set). In between sets I'll either use the seated curl machine or the seated overhead pull/extension machine (is what I call it any way, at less weight). Curl with 50, 60 and 70 and for the seated overhead pull/extension 30, 40 and 50.

And then back to the cross cables and repeat.

When done with this, I'll drop the cross cables from where they were shoulder level height to the floor, and with my knees slight bend and my arms to my side with very light weight for me (bad left shoulder) usually start at 20lbs, 30 and 40lbs, bring my arms to my side, and raise both my hands from my side while straight, to slightly above eye level and hold. In between sets I'll go to the butterfly machine and start at I think 90lbs, and go up in weight three times, I think this gym does it in 15 lbs increments.

Oh, I'm gymless now so I'm stuck with just running outside and doing push/pull ups at home as well as the 8min abs video.

In the Corps we usually do max effort pulls ups. So 20 first set and then as many as you can get get there after. I would usualy do teh same thing. Stomach routine, pulls ups and pushups and repeat.

Just stick with whatever you are doing, as it is better than not doing anything at all.

Out here!!!
Mike-D

[Minotaur]

If you have access to a partner, you can have him push up under you lats when you're exhausted on the concentric movement and you can then get some forced reps and negatives.

[krellum]

Another good pull-up-building technique for "non-pull-uppers" is to just do the declines with the bar; get up on the bar anyway you can into the closed-arm, chin-over-the bar pose, then try to lower yourself as slowly as you can. Step back up and do it again. After awhile you'll have the strength not only to let yourself DOWN, but also to pull yourself UP.

Worked for me back in the day (in boot camp). I always remember this psycho kid named Cromley in boot camp who could do like 60 dead-hang pull-ups. Guy was built like a brick sh#$-house and actually made it look like he was standing flat-footed and pulling the bar down to HIM instead of vice-versa. Man, people like that made me mad :).


k

[JFred10]

As far as the push ups, I simply started with ten and then added one every night. I would do my normal weight/cardio routine after work and end the night with push up and sit ups. Assuming you have enough time, adding one every night will get you to 60..70..80 in a few months