View Full Version : Help with Running Plan Requested
I have jumped back into my training regime about a week ago. I am nowhere close to where I need to be for the FBI pre-test. I know that it is still extremely early (Phase 1 in approximately 8 weeks), but I want to get into shape ASAP while avoiding injury.
My approach thus far has been to run for 20 or 30 minutes on a treadmill at a pace that it outside of my comfort zone, but slow enough that I can hopefully maintain it for the entire time.
This early in the process, should I be overly concerned with actually hitting the 1.5 or 2 mile marks?
I have noticed a monumental impact difference in my methods of cardio training. For example, I initially "ran" for 30 minutes a day on an elliptical trainer (this was about a month ago). That pace turned out about 3.5 miles. Hey, that's just over a 8.5 minute mile pace at the very beginning of my training routine. That's great, right? Then, I tried to duplicate the effort on a stairstepper, then a treadmill and it almost killed me.
Another issue is that my feet are completely flat. I have zero arch. I am currently about 30 pounds over the accepted weight range for my height. So, the impact of treadmill running with my weight and flat feet lead to pain pretty quickly.
I will likely survive via bodyfat percentage. Even in my prime back in the high school football days, I was outside of that range.
Should I opt for interval training on a treadmill this early?
Should I make better use of an elliptical type machine as well for the reduced impact when necessary? I will just not get any false sense of security based on the pace. I know that actually running is the test. However, if the dogs are barking too much for me to get good treadmill time, at least I would be moving, burning calories, and increasing my heart rate.
Thanks again for the great advice and the patience in drudging through my long-winded posts. ;)
Early in the process, hitting the marks doesn't matter, as long as you're improving. I would say yes, opt for interval training. It's a great way to work on both speed and endurance. Just make sure you aren't too ambitious when you start out.
Varying your cardio workout is always good, so there's nothing wrong with using the elliptical sometimes. But as you've said, the test is running and you'll have to run. To take this a step further, at some point you'll want to get off the treadmill and run outside. When you're on the treadmill you stay in one place, so there's no air resistance. Running the same speed and distance outside (even on a completely flat surface) is going to be significantly harder.
(1) Make sure you have the right kind of running shoes for your feet. Runner's World has a lot of good information on running shoes *and* running programs.
(2) When you run, I would run the pace, not the distance. Crank the treadmill up to a 8-min mile and run for as long as you can--try to make it to 16 minutes. If you have to bail, bail. *Then* go climb on the elliptical machine and finish your cardio workout.
(3) I wouldn't run more than 3 times a week, with at least a full day between runs. I would try to run outside once a week, or at least 3 times a month.
Good Luck!
LongArm
I would highly suggest visiting your doctor. If you can choose your own doctor, see a Sports Medicine doctor. To me yours is a very tenuous situation and I really would not want to offer you any specific advice. For example, I don’t know what kind of pain you are having in your feet (sharp, dull, throbbing, etc.). And even if I did, not being a podiatrists or a Sports Medcine Doctor, I would not know how much pain is dangerous to your long- or medium- term goals, or career, for that matter. What you don’t want to do is experience a career-ending injury.
Some shoe stores that specifically cater to the high-performance runner/marathoner have podiatrists available for consultation for like an extra $20. If I were you, I really would try this, at least.
You may be able to find a good personal training that has good cross-country-type experience as well as the cutting (body building) type experience. I find that cross-country-type are not that concerned with loosing weight, only running faster. Thus they put a lot of emphasis on carbs, which make for better workouts, but not for cutting.
If you do see some experts, I would be interested, if you don't mind, hearing what your learned.
I post some insights on tread mills in the thread below. Perhaps it may help.
http://www.911jobforums.com/vB/showthread.php3?threadid=22289
I don’t know how much loosing weight will help. But have you ever seen the EAS before-and-after contests. If they can do it, then I’d say many, many more can; and probably you can too. Ever see Lee Priest (body builder) off-season? He looks like about 40% body fat. If Lee Priest can go from about 40% body fat to like 2%, then such feats are humanly possible and many can go from 30% to like 10%.
For me I am taking the approach of getting in the best shape of my life. I went from about 22%, down to about 9% and plan to stop cutting at about 6%. Prior to learning what I know now about exercise, nutrition, etc., I thought it was “impossible”. I am considering getting certified as a personal trainer.
Thanks for the great advice.
I have been following the workout plan in the Pre-Quantico kit I downloaded. This program dictates running 6 days a week, with Sundays completely off.
I have not really noticed any excessive soreness in my legs from my cardio work. It's mainly a wind issue. I get winded and stop when I have to. But, I feel like I could do more running just a few minutes later. I actually considered starting a two a day routine. I would start with cardio, then to the weights, and hit cardio again about 9 hours later in the evening.
It sounds like that may not be a good idea though.
I hate going to the doctor!!! However, it may be a good idea now that I am attempting to re-shape my body entirely.
The foot pain is a sharp stabbing pain exactly where the normal people have arches. I bought some Dr. Scholls arch supports. We'll see how those help.
Brindle-- 6% body fat?!?!?! My bones are higher than 6%! ;)
Excellent work!
Originally posted by rjsone
The foot pain is a sharp stabbing pain exactly where the normal people have arches.Ouch... dude... think of seeing a doctor as a service to our country.
The only reason why I am naggin' so much is that (plus you asked for advice) I had been smarter, I would not have gotten taken out of my training regimine for three months, after I got my pull-up's to 23. Now my pull-up's are back down to 15, which is not bad. But imagine what it would have been ... could have been ... should have been, if I had not gotten taken out of my training regimine. (I know ... cry me a river.) I learned that the most important thing is to stay in the game, and not let catastopy (sick, injured) strike.
Don't just train hard, but train smart. Okay, sorry, I'll stop naggin' now. Actually, you probably have had these aches and pains for a while, with not much injury, so you probably know your limits.
I, too, have been doing two workouts per day on the weekends. I think the value of morning workouts is for "fatburning" (easy cardio on an empty stomach with lots of water). This way your body will quickly deplete your already-low blood sugar (glucose), and start to burn fat. That is your body will burn fat, if your heart rate is not too high. If your heart rate is too high, then your body will shift to burning muscle.
If you are going to combine strength training (push-up's, pull-up's, sit-up's, lifting, etc.) and cardio IN THE SAME WORKOUT, then you should definetly do the strength training BEFORE the cardio. (But cardio in the morning and strength training at night is a good way to go.) That way your strength training will burn glucose and not muscle; and your cardio will burn fat. If you do the cardio first, your cardio will deplete your glucose, leaving only muscle to burn while strength training (that is the act of strength training will not burn fat for the strength training exercises because strength training exercises are anarobic [vs aerobic]).
But if you can schedule in two-a-days, then each workout should probably focus on only of the TWO following: (1) fatburning cardio OR (2) performance cardio or strength training.
Do (1) fat burning cardio on an empty stomach with lots of water.
For (2) performance cardio (timed trials, interval training, sprints, hills, fartlecks, shuttle, etc.) or strength training, be sure to have had a small meal with some carbs about 90 minutes prior. This will ensure that your body uses glucose -- and not muscle -- to fuel your anarobic strength training exercises. If you are trying to loose fat, you may want to save up a much of your day's carbs for the pre-anarobic-strength-training meal that, like I mention, should take place about 90 minutes before this workout.
This early in the process, should I be overly concerned with actually hitting the 1.5 or 2 mile marks?
Well on one hand, no, since you don’t want to get hurt. On the other hand, I think (1) Physical Fitness is listed by the FBI as one of the Phase II (two) criteria for the interview; and (2) depending on how far you are from hitting the 1.5 mile mark (12:40 or 11:10) you may not have all that much time.
You could try interval training on the elliptical trainer.
You could also try to first loose some weight before you increase the interval training on the tread mill. That is what I did because my knee is not that great.
Hope this helps ... good luck. Keep us posted on your progress.
Brindle,
Thanks again for the great info.
You could try interval training on the elliptical trainer.
I actually did this yesterday morning. I started on the treadmill with a 30 minute steady pace workout in mind. I got too winded and had to slow down a few times. But, after 30 minutes, I was barely sweating and did not feel much muscle fatigue. So, I started interval training on an elliptical trainer. I did a 30 minute workout. I was pouring sweat, feeling the burn, etc. It seems to me that this may be a better approach initially.
Today, I can feel mild burning from my calves to my glutes. Not injury, just a good burn. I make it a point to stretch for about 20 minutes prior and 20 minutes post cardio.
The foot pain is interesting. It's always been a problem. At about age 10 my doctor told me to basically forget about running all together. He considered proposing some kind of phys. ed. exemption in fact!
Naturally, I ignored him and played football, baseball, basketball, track, and boxing throughout school. The pain was always there, but I never allowed it to become an issue. I cannot imagine that it would become a serious problem now, 15 years later. I think that the extra 30 pounds I have added in the 7 years since high school is exacerbating the problem.
The Dr. Scholls arch supports definitely seemed to help.
Brindle,
Do you suggest that I not follow the workout in the Pre-Quantico Kit? At 6% body fat, if you say it, I will treat is as gospel. I just want to be sure that I follow. :)
I basically do cardio 6 days a week. I also lift on M, W, and F. It's cardio only on T, TH, and SAT. Sunday is completely off.
I never thought of the lifting first concept, that makes sense. This is getting much more complex.
My current plan is as follows...
1) 20-25 minutes of lower body stretching
2) 30-40 minutes of cardio (initially steady pace, I now plan to alternate and include interval)
3) 20-25 minutes of lower body stretching
4) 15 minutes of upper body stretching
-------This stretching time enables me to catch a little rest and hit the weights harder----------------
Then it's off to the weights, with the following exercises...
Bench press
Incline press
Shoulder press
Lat pulls
Rows
Hammer curls
Tricep extensions with rope
Leg extensions
Leg curls
Leg press
Then, I finish up with a little more stretching.
The "Kit" has plan A & plan B. Plan A is 2 sets of 15 reps, 1 minute between sets. Plan B is 3 sets at 12, 10, 8 with 2 minutes rest between sets.
I have always done cardio first on at least 32 ounces of water and a meal replacement shake. The shake is very low in calories, carbs, and fat, high in protein.
By the way... I definitely do not see any "nagging," just great advice.
Thanks again and please keep it coming.
I did the interval trainer on an elliptical machine this morning...
Now, approximately 9 hours later, I have a serious burn in my entire legs!
I may have finally extended beyond my lazy, I mean, my comfort zone.
Do you suggest that I not follow the workout in the Pre-Quantico Kit?
I don’t recall the FBI’s Pre-Quantico Kit. When it came out I may have reviewed it briefly, but I don’t know why I did not review it thoroughly. (I think I did not review it much because I thought I already had a good system.) I’ll review it and let you know what I think, within a week or so. However, please note that I am no professional…
In fact, I think that whenever an “institution” like the FBI, DEA, military, etc. puts together training document, you can bet that it has been reviewed by professionals, which is great. You definitely can’t go wrong. In fact deviating from something that has been put together by their professionals for their physical task test, is probably foolish. So you should probably stick with what the FBI put together. In fact I will probably try their workout.
But, (in my opinion) as a result of this training “document” going out “to the masses” the document may not push limits (like, for example, body builders do when cutting). I think the pre-breakfast-fat burning cardio is kind of “limit pushing,” which, although effective, will probably not be recommended by these large “institutions” (also due to liability) … but this is just my reading into things.
Let me see if I understand you…
On all three days (Monday AND Wednesday AND Friday) in one continuous workout you do all of the following:
1) 20-25 minutes of lower body stretching
2) 30-40 minutes of cardio (initially steady pace, I now plan to alternate and include interval)
3) 20-25 minutes of lower body stretching
4) 15 minutes of upper body stretching (This stretching time enables me to catch a little rest and hit the weights harder)
5)Lift weights (Bench press, Incline press, Shoulder press, Lat pulls, Rows, Hammer curls, Triceps extensions with rope, Leg extensions, Leg curls, Leg press). Each exercise at either (A) 2 sets of 15 reps, 1 minute between sets, or (B) 3 sets at 12, 10, 8 with 2 minutes rest between sets
6)Then, I finish up with a little more stretching.
How long does this workout (from #1 to #6) take you?
Since you are lifting MWF, you may NOT want to do interval training on these days. Instead you may want to do interval training only on TThS. I think I read a RunnersWorld article that said something about speed work at most twice per week.
By the way, only fat-burning workouts – which is characterized by a low heart rate (60-70% estimated maximum heart rate, which is heart beats per minute minus age) – should be done on an empty stomach. One should have a good pre-workout meal for more strenuous workouts like interval training and lifting.
If you are doing two-a-days, I think the trick is to “split” up your workouts to avoid over training. That is why body builders call their weekly training regimen, training “splits.”
Brindle,
Yes, MWF is cardio AND lifting in one continuous workout. It does take a while. I have actually abbreviated the Pre-Quantico Kit workout a bit. It also lists calisthentics and sit-up and pull-up routines. From the time I walk into the gym to stretch to the time I leave the showers can easily be 3 hours.
It is definitely not a quick workout. I tend to perform each muscle movement at a snail's pace, thereby eliminating momentum. It cracks me up to see other people load a ton of weight and race through the exercise. I ensure that my range of motion exerts the muslce 100% of the time. Each rep probably takes about 3-4 seconds.
If soreness is any indication of an effective workout, I must have scored a direct hit with this program! I am always fatigued the day of the workout and sore the day following.
I do interval cardio only on T, TH, S... the days without weights.
I think I will have a whey protein shake about 30 minutes prior to leaving for the gym on MWF. I will just have water prior to the constant pace cardio, which seems to be the fat burning cardio.
Thanks again for the great tips.
I believe protein shakes should be taken immediately after your workout rather than before. Protein repairs the muscle you just worked at the gym. Before you go to the gym, you might want to try an energy bar or something along that line. I just like a simple banana or fat free yogurt. Just a thought.
In my opinion, 6 days a week of running is likely to cause some injuries. I love the treadmill since it's so easy to monitor your progress. 3 to 4 days of running 40 minutes will take off those pounds. Try walking at like 4 mph for half a mile-this gets the blood flowing, burns about 50 calories and enables your body to burn fat quicker. I lost 30 lbs prior to my academy in 2 months from combining treadmill with a good diet. After gaining some more weight from being a slacker, I jumped on the treadmill 6 wks ago-ran 2 laps at 8 mph before having to walk. Now I go 9 laps at 8 mph and mix the rest with sprinting/walking. Lost 20 lbs so far but I only go twice a week-given I work out with weights 4 days a week-that too sheds the lbs. As far as protein shakes, I take one about 1/2 hr before running and have had no problems with it. I'd prefer to take it after but I run after waking up and am usually starving then. You might want to look into the FBI's running program. Some agencies do long runs, others do sprints. I know several that sprint 1/2 a lap then walk half a lap. SOunds easy but try it sometime. They start at about 5 and move rapidly to as many as 20. If this is the case with the FBI, I'd recommend training for it. Think I'll do everyone a favor and end this dissertation now. Good luck to you. -mac
The thing about protein shakes is that it is absorptive protein, not that it is just protein. Hence its only (or primary) value is right after the workout, which is when your body (muscles and energy stores) has just been broken down and depleated. Other than after your workout, lean chicken will do. However, if you look at fat content pretty much only steamed chicken breast is "leaner" than whey. Hence taste becomes an issue because whey usually beats steamed chicken breast.
I kind of don't like the supplements that are labeled "meal replacements," however those that do carry that label, I think, the low carb ones are better. The reason that I don't like supplements that are labeled "meal replacements" is that the carbs are usually of pretty low quality. Nutrition wise, one is better of with whey and your own, whole grain source of carbs. However, powder supplements can be easier to digest and can make pre-workout meals more digestible.
If you don't mind spending the extra dollars, then whey ISOLATE, is of a higher quality in that it is more absorptive.
Given a three-hour workout, you should probably "re-fuel," once or twice. (Are you hungry or light headed at the end of the three-hour workout?) I know that "runners" have this glucose pack of liquid gel or something. They use it for runs longer than, I think, one hour. You should call one of those stores and find out how those energy gel packs, or what ever they are, are used. I’d be interested in what you learn. All I know is that runners, who are not usually concerned with burning muscle, told me that on longer runs, burning muscle is a concern of their, hence the market (demand and supply) for these gel pakcs. After you find out what they are, and how they are used, you may want to incorporate your own mid-workout "re-fueler." I suspect that a glass skim milk and half an orange will do the trick. (I think one of the goals of the those energy gel packs is that it is easy to digest, hence avoiding throwing up.)
How are your DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness), rjsone? Are they gone by the next workout, and if not, what parts are still sore?
I took a look at the FBI workout, and, yes, the workout they suggest look to take like three hours. I do have some serious questions about their program but I think I will look it over more thoroughly.
Thanks again, more great advice.
I guess that the whey protein I am taking is not actually marketed as a "meal replacement." I simply try to use it in the capacity. I started this when I was working 60 hours a week as an accountant through busy season. It was either a shake or a Big Mac.
My DOMS... The soreness is 99-100% gone before I lift again. The one exception would be the first Monday I followed the program in the Pre-Quantico Kit. I was still VERY sore for Wednesday's workout. The soreness remained primarily in my chest. But, that's to be expected since is was my first week of diving back into lifting.
I don't really get too tired due to the 3 hour marathon. I take my time stretching and drink about a quart of water between cardio and lifting. So, it is essentially a half time break. I have had a motivation problem this week though. So, Monday I hustled a little more and got through in about 1.5 hours. I stretched a little less and rested a lot less.
I will be sure not to make a habit of cutting stretching, but I had a hell of a time dragging myslef in as I dreaded another long workout.
I think the Pre-Quantico Kit will work for me for the time being. It seems well balanaced. With my current level of fitness, anything is an improvement. Down the road, I may notice a particular muscle group developing less than others. If that happens, I can then think about adding and/or changing exercises.
Originally posted by rjsone
The foot pain is a sharp stabbing pain exactly where the normal people have arches. I bought some Dr. Scholls arch supports. We'll see how those help.I was just thinking that those high-end running shoe stores carry some sort of foot pad or arch support that, if I recall correctly, was of a higher quality than the Dr. Scholls things. In fact, I will probably look into getting some just to make my shoe a little more high-performance, hopefully
.
Fidelis770
08-16-2003, 10:39
I just wanted to stress the importance of custom orthodics, especially with flat feet. I'm currently with an infantry battalion, and my feet are my most important asset. So on the Marine Corps dollar I decided to take care of them (also helped my knees, and back) by getting fitted for custom orthodics and I can't tell you what a wonder they are. It relives pressure on my arch and my knees and I can't imagine how I went on 20-mile hikes and 8 mile runs before I had them. Though they are expensive they are a godsend. Also can I recommend low impact workouts like swimming? Swimming is great because it is LOW-IMPACT and does not punish your joints. You can see just as much an improvement in you run time, if you add some swimming into your workout and you also give your joints a rest. So my advice it to get to a podiatrist and get casted for custom orthodics, and add some swimming to your workout.
Fidelis 770
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