pushup techniques/methods/advice

[Combat13]

Hey everyone. Let me introduce myself first. I am a senior mechanical engineer at Umass (3 more semesters) doing Army ROTC. I want to go active duty uopn graduation. I have never posted on this forum, and usually stick to the military forum, but also browse this and the FLE board.

That being said. I have been trying to max out the pushup portion of the APFT for awhile now. Since June, I have been trying to pace myself in the 2 minutes, and have only been able to do a max of 62 pushups. 2 days ago, I decided to just do as many as I could as fast as I could in the 2 minutes and did 86 pushups...but my head was killing me after, and the pain remained for the rest of the day. I didnt do any pushups till today. I managed to get to 60 in about 45 seconds, but had to stop because my head felt like it was going to explode. I guess my breathing is messed up or something, because my body feels fine, and I felt like I could have gotten to 90.

Well, and advice/suggestions would be great. This is going to be my first semester of ROTC and would love to max the PT test ASAP.

Thanks,

Matt

[Time Traveller]

Originally posted by Combat13
That being said. I have been trying to max out the pushup portion of the APFT for awhile now. Since June, I have been trying to pace myself in the 2 minutes, and have only been able to do a max of 62 pushups. 2 days ago, I decided to just do as many as I could as fast as I could in the 2 minutes and did 86 pushups...but my head was killing me after, and the pain remained for the rest of the day. I didnt do any pushups till today. I managed to get to 60 in about 45 seconds, but had to stop because my head felt like it was going to explode. I guess my breathing is messed up or something, because my body feels fine, and I felt like I could have gotten to 90.


Matt,

I think the headache came from you forgetting to breathe through the two minute process. Your body went searching for oxygen. Also, I would bet your face turned red in the process and that means you were forcing blood into your head and that will give you a massive headache.

I say go slower and remember to breathe. My philosophy is, unless you have a burning desire to max the pushups and you need points from there to make up for some other short area, then do what you can in the two minutes and feel comfortable.

Remember, when you take the PT test, you will be doing multiple exercises and if you have a killer headache after the pushups, you may not do well in your other exercises. So pace yourself...

Just my .02

[Chainring]

Time Traveller is right. You didn't breathe. Breathing during the pushups is very critical because it is an anaerobic exercise and your muscles will already be starving for oxygen when you get close to failure. I can do more pushups going faster than I can going slower because I develop a rhythm. But doing them slower during training will help you develop proper form, strengthen your lower back and develop your shoulders better. Focus on deep breaths in and out while doing the reps. The good news is that you are a young man and you will only get stronger. It will come, just keep working it. I received my commission in '89 and later went active duty. I've done a few pushups in my life and am still doing them. There's only one way to get better and that's to push.....a lot!

[boominass]

Matt,
Whatever happenned w/ those headaches? Did they clear up? I have the same problem now, and I PM'ed you about it.
Thanks,
boomin'

[MarkuDaCrimeDog]

I'd like to know the same thing. I have been doing pushups and bench presses for years now and this has never happened to me. All of the sudden, 3 days ago I get down to do pushups and when I get to 20 this rush of pain starts where my neck meets my head in the back, and continues into my head. I had a headache for hours. This has happened the past 2 days also, and finally again about an hour ago. I said I don't care how bad the pain is I'm going to go on...yeah right! I almost passed out, and have pain and nausea. I get migraines every once in a while and this feels like one except it is in the back of the head as opposed to behind my eyes where my migraines usually occur.

I noticed that this happened when I really started concentrating on form. I think I am thinking to much and then not breathing. I really hope this doesn't continue. I would hate to have to drop out of the process because I get headaches during pushups.

[boominass]

I decided to take this issue to a chiropractor. My reasoning is that a MD would only be able to give me pain medicine, or some sort of steroid shot, whereas a chiro. might take a deeper look at the root cause. Besides, I've had great success w/ mine in the past for smaller problems.
You may be on to something with thinking it's related to concentrating too hard on form. I was told to keep looking out in order keep your body straight while doing them, and this is when the problem started for me as well. While that advice is sound, the chiro. told me that if you inadvertently strain the muscles in the back of the neck repeatedly, it can put pressure on various nerves and get an instant headache. I did one p/up for him, and he noticed that immediately. He suggested that I work on keeping my body straight, while looking down, and paying more attention to not straining my neck muscles. I thought I was already doing it, but he noticed it immediately when I did the p/up. I'll keep trying this and let you know how it works out. I agree it could become a serious issue if it doesn't get better...

[ScoobyDoo]

He suggested that I work on keeping my body straight, while looking down, and paying more attention to not straining my neck muscles. I thought I was already doing it, but he noticed it immediately when I did the p/up.
I have the same issue. My neck automatically tenses up when I do push ups. Because form is critical for the push-up test, I am trying to practice going slower, but relaxing my neck. It's difficult to do, but I think after a while I will be more relaxed- this will result in being able to increase the number of push-ups I do (and WITHOUT straining my neck)!:idea:

[MarkuDaCrimeDog]

I hope you find something out. I am POed. I was basically relying on Push ups to score alot of points. I was doing fine until then. I started off thinking I would do alot of pullups and pushups since strength is my uhhh strength (couldn't think of another word). I was good for at least 11 points out of the 15.

Then my AC tells me pullups are out and it is now 12 points. Now the headache thing and I am looking at alot of problems. :crying:

I'm just going to take a break for a week and do only bench presses.

[boominass]

I hear ya'. I tried to do p/ups again today, and the headache hit me like a train after only 25!!! It's starting to scare me too. I go back to the chiro. on Monday. I coudl be looking at a Q date of late March or early April, so I need to get this solved SOON!
boomin'

[MarkuDaCrimeDog]

I said I won't do pushups so I'll do bench presses until failure, rest 5 minutes and do again. Well after 8 presses, boom! another lovely headache. It's nice when you can take your pulse just by standing still and feeling the throbbing in your head.

That's it. I'm going to take a week off. Just running and situps.
I think we might of aggravated something and we should let it heal before we end up doing permanent damage.

[boominass]

I agree. It's gotten prgressively worse. If it heals in a few weeks, and I can return to where I left off w/ p/ups, I should be ok. I'll keep in touch....
boomin'

[Noatin]

Good luck to all of you in getting better soon!

There's nothing worse in training than when the heart and mind are willing, but the body holds you back.

There's got to be a doctor somewhere that can give you a proper diagnosis, so you can get rid of the pain.

Stay positive!

[MarkuDaCrimeDog]

I have a feeling the problem is my breathing. I can barely breathe out of my nose, because of allergies. Boomin do you have the same problem? I am going to try nose drops before I do my routine.

[X21]

Hey guys,
Went through Army ROTC a few years back and have done some push-ups, like Chainring, but probably not as many as him.

Neck strain issues on the push-ups is not uncommon, though I would first take a look at your breathing patterns. The PU event for the Army APFT is a muscle endurance event, don't deprive your brain and your muscles of the oxygen they both need for that two minutes. Work on exhaling every other PU and you will naturally breathe in.

The other source of your pain may be nerves (anxious about the APFT) or a lack of conditioning in your core back muscles. To compensate, your body starts to tighten every muscle around that COULD help keep your body straight and your neck muscles just happen to be right there. Another example where this happens is when your are doing standing barbell curls at the gym and your biceps go into muscle failure. You can still do a couple more reps, but you will likely use your lower back and shoulder muscles to help you achieve that goal, cheating really.

To ease the strain on the neck and to make sure you are not too tense in the neck do a set of push-ups during training where you look in different directions while doing a set of say 25 pushups. Look to the left by turning your head left for 3, then to the right for 3, then at the ground directly in front of you, then at the left upper corner of the ceiling, etc. You will notice how tight your neck is, my guess would be you proabably won't be able to turn it at all the first time you try it. Relax mentally and let your body do what you've trained it to do. Do the target number, the number you get to without stopping, then do your sets of 5 or 3 or whatever, but keep good form.

Something else you should really work on to become stronger in the push-up event is strengthening of your back, especially lower back muscles. This is really easy to work on. Get into a good front leaning rest position (the up position of the push-up) and hold it for as long as you can without breaking form. You'll feel quickly which muscles fatigue first. The swimmer, stiff-leg deadlifts, and lower back exercise machines are all good ways to improve strength in your lower back.

Another problem could be a weak upper back, which cannot stabilize your body and provide a solid platform for you to push off of when doing push-ups. Your upper back has to be able to stabilize your shoulder blades and if they can't do the job from the back, they recruit other nearby muscles (neck). Recommend pull-ups to remedy this. You have to have balance in your training. The Army right now focuses a lot on pushing and very little on pulling exercises, but they are changing that.

In a good push-up position, your head should rest be in a neutral position above your shoulders. What I mean by this is that you should not have it extended straight up and down, perpendicular to the ground, nor should it be down (parallel to the ground). There should be no sag from the shoulders to the head. The back of your head should be parallel to your upper back, like when standing at attention, OR tipped up slightly. I do not recommend looking down to anyone because many people have a tendency to drop their head when they fatigue, which causes neck strain.

It's all about posture and core strength. Work on your posture during exercise and throughout the day. Slouching, hanging your head while running or just watching TV can lead to bad habits during PT, with lots of unnecessary headaches.

The bench press will help you with the pushing aspect of the push-up, but I do not think it will help remedy your problem. In fact, it may only get worse because your back will become even weaker, through a lack of use.

Also, stretch after your workouts. Stretch your neck, back, shoulders, abs, chest, and triceps, as they all play some role durin the push-up.

Hope these tips are somewhat helpful. Come back gradually and if it continues to be painful, see a doctor.

[junverza]

As far as getting your numbers up, here is something that I used to do. I was pretty good at pushups and could usually score around 110 - 120 in the two minutes. Many people go balls to the wall until they can't do any more, then arch up with your legs straight for a break, then do the same thing till they are exhausted and hit failure again and continue this pattern.

To go all out without stopping, I could probably do about 65 or so. Instead of going to failure, I would always do 50, then take about a 8-10 second break, then do 20, take a break, 20 more, break and so on. Towards the end of the 2 minutes I would end up only doing ten or five and at the end 2 or 3 at a time. Point being, don't use everything at once. Don't go to failure and burn out your muscles. Leave some in the tank and refresh during your break, then continue this throughout the two minutes.

Regarding the headaches, we're you taking any supplements? Now banned, but I knew a lot of guys that used Ephedra products or caffeine pills during PT Tests. Obviously this is horrible for a heart during a two mile run, but also hard on your mind and body during two minutes of push ups or sit ups.

[boominass]

Thanks for the replies. My breathing was the first thing I checked, and that didn't seem to fix the problem. I went to the chiro. again yesterday, and it confirmed the fact that I was tensing my neck muscles to the point where they caused headaches. He had me do p/ups with my head held back slightly, as X21 suggests w/ the back of the head parallel w/ the upper back, and looking down as opposed to tilted up. This keeps the back neck muscles extended. I stopped after 35, because I realized it was working. He also suggested exercises that work to keep your head back when in a natural resting position (sitting / standing / etc.), so that I'm not so inclined to strain those muscles during exercise. Hopefully, this will do the trick.

boomin'

[MarkuDaCrimeDog]

Jun, no supplements except for vitamins, but I have always taken them. I haven't taken Ephedra since early 2002. I didn't like the fact that I'd lose weight and then gain it back within a month or two. Last year I lost weight without it and have stayed at the same weight for almost a year now.

X21,

Alot of your suggestions make complete sense to me. I have totally stopped my back workout, which used to be my main bodypart. I definitely was beginning to suspect that my back has weakened and that my neck was paying the price.
I should have not stopped my weight training that I have been doing for 8 years now. I did this in order to prepare for the test and I noticed that my situps and pushups actually went down.
In December I could do 50 pushups and about 48 situps. Two weeks ago I was down to 40 pushups and 42 situps. That's about 3 points total. I'm going to go back to my workout that I shouldn't have stopped in the first place.
I also noticed that if I turned my head to the side, it would dull the pain, or at least keep it off for a few pushups. I don't know if this is allowed on the test though.
Thank you for your detailed info!

By the way, I took nose drops and got 15 pushups before my heart went into my head again. So scratch that theory.

Looks like back training tonight.

[jkh206@hotmail.com]

I'm not the greatest at push ups...sometimes if i dont breathe right i get headaches while doing them or right after i stop. What i've been doing is do a set of 10 every 5 mins until i can't do anymore. BTW...I leave Sat for Beltsville, Maryland (USSS UD Orientation...still trying to find out how the academy is and the PT is if anyone knows.)


John

[MarkuDaCrimeDog]

Boomin,

Any updates on your condition? I still get the headaches. Then I asked my wife to give me a neck massage, and then I reeled off 40 pushups.

I'll have to ask one of the testers to give me a massage before the PRT.

[X21]

Hope everything works out OK for you guys. When you finish the ROTC program and go into the "real" Army, you will see a change within the next few years of the focus of PT. They are going to focus more on physical readiness training (PRT), to prepare soldiers to do their combat misssions more efficiently and effectively. The PT test now ensures that soldiers are healthy, but does not require physical tasks that soldiers face in their MOS's in the field. Look for the Army's PT test to change as well as the focus at PT, soon to be PRT. They will be getting away from just sets of PU's, SU's, followed by a run and getting more into new calithenics and exercises that work the back. It will be a huge change that will take a lot of time, but the new program (as a concept) makes a lot more sense than what they are doing now. Lots of focus on core body strength and there are lots of personal trainers out there who focus on this as well.

Anyway, good luck to all whose goal it is to serve this great nation and thank you for your service!

FIT FOR LIFE!

[dgeo]

I had the same issue, and those headaches are nasty when they come on. I went to my regular doctor, and they determined it was due to my blood pressure rising too high when I would do those types of exercises. They prescribed me a higher dosage of blood pressure medication plus sent to me obtain a scan. The scan revealed nothing, but changing my dosage of meds did the trick. I don't have that issue anymore. The headaches were extreme when I would get them though. They would make you feel instantly sick, and like you were going to pass out. It was pretty scary because all of the sudden it started to happen. You may want to have a trainer take you blood pressure right after you do a set to see if it is rising to high.

[universible]

I've never had a headache problem when doing pushups...I had problems with feeling like I had a good base when doing them though. The biggest improvement for my pushups came from one instructor at the gym...you use body mechanics to your advantage.

Start by kneeling down, on all fours...before you get into a pushup position, you set your hands shoulder width apart (or whatever width you want to do them) then pivot your hands so that you are rest your weight on the heal of your palms (meaty part). Then turn both hands in towards each other and then with a kind of mashing/grinding motion, turn them back out to normal...focusing your weight on the heel of the palm.

Its hard to explain in text, easy to show in person. From there, you get into your regular pushup position...just don't move your hands, since you've set them in place. Your front weight should be over the heel of the palms...what this does is set your arms in alignment. It locks your wrists, and fore arms...when you do regular pushups you get a lot of lost motion in your arms. Doing the little mashing twist motion on your palms basically trains your to use proper body mechanics.

I hope I explained this correctly. When I do pushups without the mashing motion at first, I find that I'm not really working the muscles I want. I'm fighting myself trying to do them. With the mashing motion I feel more stable and work the right areas.

Ted

[Chemical]

I have seen some of the replies here and I need some advice. I have been trying to get my push-ups up to par. I currently can only achieve 32. I used to be able to get 50 easy when I was in my twenties when I was lifting steady. I have recently started lifting again and I'm wondering...Should I continue lifting while trying to increase my push-ups? I have been trying to alternate the days I do them. I am also trying a program I saw on this site where you figure out your max and cut that in half and do three sets. Once you can do the three sets you increase the number by one until you can complete three sets again. I don't think this seems to be working for me. I have the FBI physical agility this April 5th. I realize there will be some adrenaline going, but I don't want to rely on it. My form is perfect for the present 32. Any advice?

[MarkuDaCrimeDog]

You receive alot of advice here and by other people. One piece of advice I received was to forget about my normal lifting weights and concentrate on the 5 events. I don't think this was very good advice. When you stop weight lifting many of the little stabilizer muscles become weakened, and the larger muscles have to make up for the loss of strength. This is impossible since the larger muscles have relied on the smaller ones for support. This leads to faster muscle failure and less repetitions.

I should have never given up my routine. I believe this weakened my body overall and thus lead to more stress on my neck when doing pushups. I had to take 2 weeks off from pushups. I am able to get 40, but I feel alot of pressure on my neck and I feel like a headache might come on because of this.

I think you should supplement your regular routine with the 5 events for the FBI and other LE PTs.

The one positive is that I am a faster runner then I have ever been. I went from not being able to "run" a 1.5 mile, and after about 2 months I am running anywhere from 10:45 to 11:15 (depending on how I feel that day).

[Combat13]

been awhile since i've checked out these great forums. Summer came and I dont have a computer at home, then back at school forgot about them.

Anyways, I do not have the problem with the headaches unless I am going all out and shooting for 100-110 in the 2-minute time frame. When doing so I guess im just going way to fast and cant keep up with my breathing. So, I just started to only max out the PT test and not go any further (72 PU's) when taking the test.

Another question I had for you guys....I have been doing PU's consistenly for about a year now usually about 3-4 days a week. I recently got back into the gym to lift weights as well. What I was wondering was how much should you wait after working out your chest to do PU's in the same week? Or to word it better, how many days should I do PU's a week, while working out my chest once a week as well? I dont wanna over work it, but I had no problems doing PU's that many times a week.

Thanks guys,

Matt

[MarkuDaCrimeDog]

Matt,

When I workout my chest I usually rest at least one day before doing any chest exercise again. Usually two days. This is because my chest gets very sore everytime I do chest. I think it is up to you to decide how much rest you need. If you feel soreness then take a day off. If you are still sore take 2. I think 2 days would be maximum for Pushups after a chest workout.
Now if you are just doing chest workouts with no pushups in between, I think 4 days is good rest.