Second-hand marijuana smoke

[Trek]

How is exposure to second-hand marijuana smoke viewed for Federal LE positions?

I play outdoor basketball on a regular basis and have smelled smoke from "blunts" and probably straight marijuana joints while playing at some popular city-park locations. Also, in college I saw joints being smoked and smelled non-cigarette smoke(probably MJ) at parties.

I have never tried marijuana myself knowing that (since high school) that I wanted to pursue a law enforcement career. Whenever I see it, I make an effort to distance myself by staying near a window or moving away from the smokers, as I do for cigarettes. I don't think I ever felt any effects from the second-hand smoke. Do these exposures count as "experimentation" or "association"? Is smelling considered the same degree of exposure as inhalation (i.e. mouth to a joint or pipe)?

For the poly, if asked: "Have you ever used drugs?", can I say: "No" considering the second-hand smoke I've encountered? I don't want to appear deceptive.

[bosco]

Originally posted by gijoeyl33
however be weary about the polygraph anyhow. ill leave it at that, browse around and research it before you take one

I would have to disagree. Do NOT browse or look up sites on polygraphs because they will fill you head with bad info. All you need to know is be honest. You don't need to know how to trick it or even how it works. Also the polygrapher will ask if you have tried to learn how to deceive the machine...it's just a bad idea in my opinion.

[DelC]

Originally posted by bosco
...it's just a bad idea in my opinion. I agree. In the case of the poly, the less you know the better off you'll be.

[gijoeyl33]

negative.....ive never been asked[i] Also the polygrapher will ask if you have tried to learn how to deceive the machine...it's just a bad idea in my opinion. [/B]

[gijoeyl33]

too risky for people who wish to be LEO to get a false positive. it happens way to often, but people usually only learn the truth until after they have failed a testOriginally posted by DelC
I agree. In the case of the poly, the less you know the better off you'll be.

[dmclark]

No,no, no, no, no.

I don't care if you play B Ball in a court FILLED with guy's smoking two foot blunts. You have no issues with second-hand marijuana smoke. Forget it. Forget any preconceptions about poly issues. You will not test positive for MJ on a drug screen either!

There is no federal, state or local charge for smelling the odor of JM. Hell, they'd throw everyone in jail.

You don't hang with traffickers, so chill.

[Trek]

Thanks for the information. I'm glad that I don't have to give up basketball since it's been part of my PT regimen.

I'll keep the thread posted about the blunts. They're getting big, but not haven't reached the 2 foot Cheech and Chong length yet. I'll go into the poly confident that my background is clean and hope I will produce accurate readings.

Now I'm wondering how I should act if I ever return to the same courts with a badge in my gym bag.

[ATF SAC]

When dealing with a good operator, folks who apply techniques they learned from the net look like folks applying techniques from the internet. Catch you applying evasive tactics you get called on it, keep it up and we fail you on that basis.Almost lost a person who has been a first class agent because of that. Read some crapola about how to be polygraphed to prepare and the operator could cite the webpage. Asked me to intervene because he sensed a good applicant was about to flush themselves. Like studying for the psych - all you can do is screw it up. You're not crazy or crooked so just take the damn things.

Lot of hacks in the field but not in the G where constant training, peer and supervisory review of charts and agency exchange of charts are just part of the process of keeping it real.

gijoeyl33, you haven't been with us all that long, but the purpose here is to help people in the process not to pass on folk wisdom that will only kill their chances.

Trek, you can always compare the firepower in your bags to keep the conversation going.

[Virgilthetiger]

Originally posted by ATF SAC
Like studying for the psych -




But, I spend an hour a day in front of the mirror telling myself I'm a good person.

LOL...


On a serious note, don't over analyze the questions on a personallity type test. just answer the questions, just be yourself.

Virgil

[spb10059]

Trek-

This is just my opinion, but you may want to consider playing basketball with some guys that don't smoke the weed, or try going to parties where they aren't smoking. You may want to re-consider who you are hanging with, as it sounds like you are at least around drug users frequently, which may lead to trouble. I know that when I was younger, some of my friends got into drugs and it seemed like I was hanging with drug users, so I had to make a choice that it wasn't for me and move on to other friends that weren't into drugs. I know it isn't easy, but was something I thought was important. Good luck.

[Trek]

Spb10059,

Thanks for the perspective. I definitely isolate myself from the illicit activity when its going down. However, it would be hard to cut out the playing basketball because all the "good" courts have some thugs playing on them. I look at street ball as a good way to keep myself grounded with personalities from all backgrounds. I hope I didn't give the impression that guys are distributing drugs and exchanging briefcases. It seems to be purely recreational. But on a court I rarely play on, there is a player known as "Gattica" who probably has a nice record. I thought he was carrying a fancy MP3/walkman on his leg one day, and then noticed it was a electronic surveillance device.

I hear your point about changing groups of friends. I don't want to be a victim of a wrong place, wrong time scenario. As for the friends that do smoke pot, and I don't see it too much. I'm sorta a buzz kill to be around I guess. hahaha. On the courts, the clean guys always bag on the pot and cigarette smokers because they usually can't hang for more than 1 or 2 games. It's good to see peer pressure working towards a positive end.

[phantasm]

I spoke to a friend about concerns with a similar situation with second hand marijuana smoke, and she told me that when her grandmother died she had smoked with her mother & sister or something like that. She's not a smoker, this was her first time. 30 days later she was hired for a new job (not with law enforcement) with a hair drug test (which is what the NYPD does). The test goes back 90 days. She passed. So I really wouldn't worry too much.

I also read another post on this board about drug testing, and how it works. To paraphrase it, your body naturally produces 30-40 ng of THC. (or MG or something, it's irrelevent, we'll call it units). So your body makes 30-40 units of THC naturally. The test will detect even this little, but it won't fail you unless you're over say 300 or 400 units, which would show direct inhalation. BUT I do agree with everyone, you should try to remove yourself from the situation. It's not something you'd want to risk.

[toolman23]

This is something I am curious about...

Sorry to bring back this thread but I was kind of bored today and just checking out some old threads.

Now there are a couple of threads in these forums that discuss, or try to discuss at least, the poly...how the results can be questioned, how to try to cheat it, etc.

And lately I have noticed these posts are getting deleted.

So my question is why do you allow a book to be sold on this site that instructs people how to deceive the poly, etc.

There are actually two books entitled "Never Say Lie" and "Deception Detection-Winning the Polygraph Game."

My guess is that these companies are paying for the advertising space, thus keeping the forums up and running, but come on, arent we being a little hypocritical here?

[ATF SAC]

No claims made for morale absolutism here. Actually some concern on the backend about this and as we think it through maybe we can look at it this way. The position of the professionals on this board and our actions on this subject are consistent and documented in thread after thread. The advertiser is free to visit the site and would discover that they are funding a board in which the theme is do not use material such as this. Perhaps wiser or more cynical than us, they recognize that some of you will anyway and that this is a place where a lot of people who will be polygraphed visit. Thus they help fund all the good things that go on here (including the condemnation of trying to cheat the polygraph). We on the other hand have scrambled and made donations to keep this site up and have to recognize that such materials are available so perhaps so long as we maintain our integrity and are open about our position we can live with the potential of a stint in Purgatory.

Perhaps we could improve our standing in regard to sin by charging you to be here, but relatively speaking and for the moment we accept the trade off. After all the actual sin is your buying and using such products to deceive the poly. It is not a sin to publish such information or to sell it or to advertize it.

Granted that the ends don't ever justify the means, but sometimes you only have the means at hand and they ain't so bad given the end.

Such ethical versus practical trade offs are inherent in the occupations discussed here and while we strive to be good, we accept our lack of perfection. Consider that we take filthy drug money and spend it on investigations of filthy drug traffickers rather than donate it to people who have suffered the depredations of narcotics. Or better, that when applicants confess to us that they have deliberately and knowingly violated the law nearly 10 times by giving money to filthy drug traffickers and using illegal drugs we do not condemn them as hypocrites for presuming they are now fit to be law enforcers or throw their behind in jail, but hire them in spite of their lack of perfection and ours.

I guess the thing to do is to worry about it a bit and then decide and live with the decision. Nice thing about Purgatory will be getting together with all those folks who couldn't resist touting even our minor failings as hypocracy.

Ya got us, guy. Keep at it and you can get us again. (smile)

[ceobob]

This is something I am curious about...

Sorry to bring back this thread but I was kind of bored today and just checking out some old threads.

Now there are a couple of threads in these forums that discuss, or try to discuss at least, the poly...how the results can be questioned, how to try to cheat it, etc.

And lately I have noticed these posts are getting deleted.

So my question is why do you allow a book to be sold on this site that instructs people how to deceive the poly, etc.

There are actually two books entitled "Never Say Lie" and "Deception Detection-Winning the Polygraph Game."

My guess is that these companies are paying for the advertising space, thus keeping the forums up and running, but come on, arent we being a little hypocritical here?

First of all... 911jobforums.com & 911hotjobs.com are two seperate web sites. Each site is owned and operated by different people. Second of all..there are no books sold on this site (911jobforums.com), only on 911hotjobs.com. 911jobforums pays a small nominal fee to be advertised on 911hotjobs.com (which sells polygraph books on their site). If you can find polygraph books sold here (911jobforums.com), please show me where. I would be interested to see where they are. I hope this helps your "curiousity" about 911jobforums "being a little hypocritical."

[toolman23]

Thanks for the insight.