SF-86 and Lying

[NJKIDATHRT]

If drugs are illegal, then why would someone tell an agency that they did them once or a thousand times. There are officers, agents, police officers...ect currently that have used drugs lied and made it through the background investigations. Why should a person not lie about previous usage is my question to you?

[Mo Trooper]

A small thing called the polygraph.

Most agencies will allow a certain amout of experimentation with certain drugs and still be hired.

Also a you should not lie because you should have enough self worth and morals to tell the truth.

[dmclark]

If you lie on the SF86, and prove deceptive on the poly, you're DQ'd. Change your answer because your facing the poly, you're DQ'd.

[JAMMERS]

And if you would lie about that, what else would you lie about?

[2DecadeFed]

Dude,
Yesterday you posted a thread (that was pulled) about what was going to be asked on a poly.......... today you posted a thread regarding lying about drug usage. Call me crazy but being in law enforcement all of my adult life, I would have to call these clues.....I'd say if you've got these kind of questions you might try some soul searching...Cause a 1811 position is not worth the risk, if you already have federal job like you have posted. If you fail a poly with your agency or another federal agency they might be required to forward the info to your internal affairs.....Think about what you might be contemplating doing here...These jobs are about enforcing rules, you can't break them.... to get the job. Look at the bottem of the SF 86....WHERE YOU SIGNED AND SWORE TO TELL THE TRUTH.......I know you have the software (you said so in previous posts).... lying on it can mean jail time and or/a fine............. 18 USC 1001..............It is real and I have seen people go to jail behind it.

[DMadarang]

Originally posted by NJKIDATHRT
Why should a person not lie about previous usage is my question to you?
Gee. Integrity, maybe?

If I were the logistics manager for Satan, ordinary run-of-the-mill liars would occupy an especially painful circle on Hell's ground floor. The truly horrible basement level would have a reserved section for liars with badges. There, they could keep the other inhabitants of that level (child molesters and mass murderers) entertained with stories about making a mockery of the public trust and urinating on principles that better men and women have died for.

Do yourself a favor. Don't apply.

[Cascade]

NJKIDATHRT,

Do your community a favor. Don't apply.

I mean, was your question serious?

[sigy]

Originally posted by Cascade
NJKIDATHRT,

Do your community a favor. Don't apply.

I mean, was your question serious?

Unfortunately, I think it was. :confused:

[toolman23]

I am excited in a strange way to post this...

Last week I was doing a personal subject interview on a person working for said fed agency. She is a college student working a co-op with the agency now, but from discussion with her and her supervisor she is hoping to make a career with this agency.
So we discuss everything she has placed on her forms. We discuss her college, and I ask if she has had any problems there...judicial affairs, any other disciplinary actions, etc. She says no. Then we roll along to the question regarding illegal drug use. Again, I get a negative response, she has not used any illegal drugs in the last year (this is an SF85P form, not the SF86).

The following day myself and another investigator go to the college that she attends and make a trip to the Judicial Affairs office.

Guess what we find?

It seems as though Ms. Wonderful was caught in a little over a year ago in her dorm room smoking some killer green bud. She admitted to the campus police and residence hall staff that she was using marijuana.

So now, rather than her admitting she used marijuana and getting a very small issue in her case(of course depending on how many other times she has used, if she has ever sold, etc.), we now have a huge issue. She lied. Not only did she lie, but she lied about a material fact, she used drugs.

Long story short, our review division is contacting the agency this young woman works for. I am at the understanding that this woman can be terminated for this, but maybe I am wrong. Hopefully this girl will learn a valuable lesson. Dont lie, because it will get found out.

Oh, and dont mess with me when I am doing your BI :)

[Cascade]

I agree. And also don't lie because you are getting into a position of public trust. And, yes, even in this cynical world, honesty and integrity matter.

[Mongo]

Originally posted by NJKIDATHRT
If drugs are illegal, then why would someone tell an agency that they did them once or a thousand times. There are officers, agents, police officers...ect currently that have used drugs lied and made it through the background investigations. Why should a person not lie about previous usage is my question to you?

To the first question: honesty
To the last question: honesty

It's something that many employers look for in candidates. Go ahead an lie on the SF-86....if that's how you want to start your career.

[2DecadeFed]

Toolman23

You should be excited.. you stoped someone who was not only wrong for the job but would have ended us (those in law enforcement) us on 60mins on Sunday night. Those are the people that hurt and defame us. You did good and you did your job and don't let anything or anyone make you fell different!!!!

:bang:

[UncleSugar]

There are three reasons 1- Background Investigations, 2 - Polygraphs, and number one could lead to number prosecution under number 3- 18USC1001.

Link to the text of 18USC1001 (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=18&sec=1001)

Then after reading the text you may want to do some research into Giglio, Henthorn, and discovery of impeachment information regarding prosecution witnesses.

That should help you with your question.

[universible]

Funny, I had a talk with an old friend of my wife's this evening...she called to talk to my wife, but wanted to congratulate me on getting hired. She then went into the whole 'I really wanted to apply, but I read their site and it said you couldn't have done drugs within the last 10 years...I mean, I guess I could just put down that I didn't...I mean, I only smoke pot like once a year now...I know lots of cops that do that!' :rolleyes: My response "Hey, here's my wife! Go talk to her!"...ugh...I mean, I don't have a spotless past...no record, and I won't get into stuff online, but no one is perfect. We all screw up in different and wonderful ways. :D Own up to it...lying is not owning up to it.

Ted

[NJKIDATHRT]

Thank you all for the advice. My question was posted not as an insult to FLE, but more of a reaction piece to an article I have been writing. Your responses are truthful and you are all right, Integrity is the pengilum that all FLE is bulit upon. Although some have faultered, there is no shame in the admittance of one's guilt. I have never lied on 86 and will continue not to do so. I appreciate the posts...

[universible]

Originally posted by NJKIDATHRT
Thank you all for the advice. My question was posted not as an insult to FLE, but more of a reaction piece to an article I have been writing. Your responses are truthful and you are all right, Integrity is the pengilum that all FLE is bulit upon. Although some have faultered, there is no shame in the admittance of one's guilt. I have never lied on 86 and will continue not to do so. I appreciate the posts...

Phew....thank god I passed the test! :rolleyes:

"Integrity is the pengilum that all FLE is bulit upon."

Wait, so how does this 'pengilum' work...it swings to the left and integrity is not important, and then swings back to the right, and it is? :o

[NJKIDATHRT]

Universible....You are right a pengilum does swing left to right. There are people who may lie and there are others who may not. But FLE is based upon that ever inconsistent play between those that lie and get the job and those that do not and do not get the job. Don't rely on your sarcasm to get you anywhere in life.:sad day:

[universible]

Originally posted by NJKIDATHRT
Universible....You are right a pengilum does swing left to right. There are people who may lie and there are others who may not. But FLE is based upon that ever inconsistent play between those that lie and get the job and those that do not and do not get the job. Don't rely on your sarcasm to get you anywhere in life.:sad day:

Not to keep this going, but wouldn't a pendulum be consistent? Also, you're saying only people who lie get jobs in law enforcement? I never lied, and I was hired. :confused:

"Don't rely on your sarcasm to get you anywhere in life"

Well, that's a given...and also the reason I have my outstanding good looks to fall back on :wink:

Ted

[mmagoo]

Originally posted by NJKIDATHRT
Universible.... Don't rely on your sarcasm to get you anywhere in life.:sad day:

I don't know, Ted won me over with his witty sarcasm, and of course his dashing good looks.

[sigy]

Originally posted by mmagoo
I don't know, Ted won me over with his witty sarcasm, and of course his dashing good looks.

Me too!!!!!!!!! *Wink* *Wink*