Question

[rove80]

I am from the UK and was just wondering if all US police officers carry handguns as a matter of course, As here in the UK only specific units (SO19,Airport Police and RUC) are allowed to carry guns


Also do you guys get ASP and CS or it that just the lucky folks in the UK who have to go up against armed gangs with nothing more than a metal stick and some smelly spray



Mal

[Lupey]

I dont know if I could say ALL - sure there are difference, but every sworn patrol officer I have ever seen has been issued a full LE belt. OC, Asp or baton of some sort, and sidearm. I guess it is just standard issue. I dont believe that you will see someone patrolling unarmed - could I could be wrong :D

[paul810]

Yup, round here everyone gets a pistol, a can of OC spray, and a PR-24 which is being phased out for ASPs. I don't know how cops over there do their job, I mean they would be considered rent-a-cops here and they don't usually get any respect.

[Bill M]

I'd guess that 99% of law enforcement in this country is armed with a duty weapon, some type of chemical (OC, etc), and an impact weapon (ASP, PR-24, straight baton). However, there are some folks out there that must do their job without a firearm.

Delaware seasonal officers (officers hired in resort towns for summer work due to a large population increase) are armed only with OC and a PR-24/ASP...no firearm. There are also some universities and colleges out there that choose not to arm their officers for stupid PR reasons (referring to ones with actual police departments...not security departments). There are probably some other examples out there too..

In general, though, yes...police officers in this country carry handguns (and often shotguns or rifles in our patrol cars).

[modareguy]

Actually there are some unarmed police departments. Yes, they actually exist in the US and I can think of at least two off hand. Where you ask? At colleges and some hospitals. There are numerous agencies which do not allow or *severely* restrict their officers from carrying a firearm. One is Brown University in Rhode Island. Their officers are state certified, yet up until recently could not carry a gun on-duty. University of Delaware Police Department is in a similar situation. They can have a gun, but must keep it in their car and can only take it out if they are responding to a call involving a weapon (or some insane policy like that). There are numerous other campus police departments which only can carry OC and/or a ASP...firearms are not an option (except for the bad guys).

Another is the New York City Hospital Police. They are not actually police, but rather New York peace officers. They are completely unarmed....

[rove80]

Thanks very much for all the replies


The government here are looking into giving out officers 9mm pistols but the would be kept in the car unless the officer is called to a firearms incident


Thanks again

Mal

[Lupey]

Knew it would be coming sooner or later. From what I have read your crime rate is sky rocketing.

[CanineCop]

I find it mildly ridiculous that they are giving out "pistols" that you can only pull out if you need a gun. If you need a gun you should be reaching for a shoulder weapon. A pistol is what you carry when you don't think you need a gun. I get the same chuckle when my non-gunny co-workers tell me they would exercise their right to carry off duty if they thought they needed a gun. I tell them "if you think you need a gun then change your lifestyle or bring something bigger than a 9mm Glock and preferably several friends with big guns" "you carry a pistol [just in case]"

Rove, are you still looking at Vancouver, BC P.D.? They’re a good outfit and incidentally they carry handguns (.40 caliber Berettas I believe) and have good use of force options.
Best of Luck, John

[modareguy]

Correct me if i'm worng, but most every Canadian police officer is NOT allowed to carry off-duty. I know that sounds insane to US officers, but I heard about it a few years ago from some officers working for an agency up there. I'm no where near the Canadian border, maybe someone with RCMP or another Canandian agency can chime in on this...

[rove80]

Lupey

Well of copurse the crime rate is rising alarmingly the only people allowed guns are the bad guys


Keep Safe


Mal

[rove80]

Caninecop


Yeah weel thats the british for you and i think i have said that is one of the reasons i wanna leave.

Yeah i am looking at the VPD as well as a few others in Canada just need to sort out my passport (mine expired last month) and then book a flight to come over and check out house prices, pubs, women and stuff and then if i like it ( and 10:4 i will) i will start the ball rolling with the move


Good luck and stay lucky


Mal

[GS1890]

Just got back a few months ago from a four year stint in Ontario. Worked with Toronto area police forces on a daily basis. The deal is this: Each officer is issued a duty pistol for "on duty" use only. No off-duty use unless the officer can articulate a specific reason to his superior officers. Only required to qualify once per year. Each "constable" has a locker and gun safe at their stations. Gun and uniform are kept at the station and both items are donned at beginning of shift, and taken off at the end of shift. The constable leaves in civilian clothes. Most still carry their police ID and badges though. Surprisingly, they do have off duty arrest authority; just no equipment on their persons. No shotguns in patrol cars. The only exception to the above that I was told about was that some RCMP constables in far remote sections of Canada have take home patrol vehicles, thus all their gear is with them all the time.

[Badge11]

I wouldn't do the job without one!

[rove80]

Thanks for both the replies.

The only unit in Britain that are allowed "Take Home" weapons is i believe the RUC (Royal Ulster Constabulary) as Northern Ireland is deem dangerous enough for the constables to be in danger all the time.

No marked patrol cars whould be taken home no matter how remote the post, however some smaller "Non PACE" designated stations have Police houses where by 1 or both officer and the Sergeant live within wlking distance of the Police station but vehicles would be kept at the station and only used while on duty.



Do some US police departments not have off duty arrest powers?



FYI: PACE stands for the Police And Criminal Evidence Act

Thanks again

Mal

[paul810]

Originally posted by rove80
Do some US police departments not have off duty arrest powers?


Yes, in fact in most states officers are allowed to carry their firearm off duty too.

Also, Technically citizens are allowed to detain someone until the police arrive if they witness an illegal act in progress. So, even basic citizens have some arrest powers. You also have to remember that most states have a CCL/CCW program, meaning average citizens can carry concealed firearms as long as they are approved and finger printed.

[modareguy]

A vast majority of officers have arrest authority to a varrying degree off-duty, which pretty much coincides with 24 hour concealed carry. The authority to take action off-duty, although granted by statute, is used rarely. In almost ten years of wearing a badge and gun, I have only become involved in something off-duty two or three times. And even then, my role was minimal at best. Unless someone is directly threatening me, i'll just be a good witness. There are too many "what if" factors to deal with when you start getting involved off-duty....

[rove80]

Thanks for that


The public in the Uk have the power of civil arrest however the limit of this is to use resaonable force to detain (Only bodily and not using any form of restraint) and they must give the person they "arrest" their right (Below)
"You are being detained for (Insert offence),You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defense if you do not mentioned when questioned something you later rely on in court"

Security officers in this contry can arrest but ina similar way to above hoqwever we can detain the suspect in a detention room where i work and more force can (Unofficially) be used that is to say that if I hurt someone and the complain to the Police or the Military of Defense (M.O.D) They will be told "You shouldn't have been there and because you were the officer (Or his Dog) have detained you" I know this cos its happened before


Also Security Dog Handlers outside of Military bases cannot let their animal off the lead (This I think negates havinga Dog but who am i to argue.



Thanks for the info and i hoope you find the above interesting (Every chance)


Mal
Rove80

[ICEman]

When I was in the college the University PD were not allowed to carry firearms by order of the Chancellor. Don't know it has changed but it always seemed ridiculous becuase being that the University was located in a relatively small town, the University PD would sometimes be called to assist City PD off campus. I can imagine there's nothing like showing up to an officer assist call with nothing but a can of O.C. and a pair of handcuffs!:o

[Gipper]

Originally posted by GS1890
Just got back a few months ago from a four year stint in Ontario. Worked with Toronto area police forces on a daily basis. The deal is this: Each officer is issued a duty pistol for "on duty" use only. No off-duty use unless the officer can articulate a specific reason to his superior officers. Only required to qualify once per year. Each "constable" has a locker and gun safe at their stations. Gun and uniform are kept at the station and both items are donned at beginning of shift, and taken off at the end of shift. The constable leaves in civilian clothes. Most still carry their police ID and badges though. Surprisingly, they do have off duty arrest authority; just no equipment on their persons. No shotguns in patrol cars. The only exception to the above that I was told about was that some RCMP constables in far remote sections of Canada have take home patrol vehicles, thus all their gear is with them all the time.

Generally RCMP members who are in small enough detachments that require them to be on-call store their weapons at home and members in larger detachments with regular shifts keep their equipment at the office. All RCMP and most other municipal/provincial forces I've seen have shotguns in their cruisers. I didn't know Toronto was an exception to this.

The majority of Canadian cops I've spoken to are opposed to the idea of off-duty carry. I'm also not aware of any services that allow backup pistols.