taser vs baton/oc?

[CO911]

My dept recently issued the X26 taser which is an incredible device. I was a little concerned though, to see a stampede towards the locker room as officers ran to take their oc spray or batons, (and in some cases BOTH), off their belts. I'm running out of belt myself, but I kept everything on. What do ya'll think about removing batons or oc in favor of the taser?

[jm77]

I was trained that if a non-lethal impact/chemical tool is in your department's use of force model and you do not have ALL of the options on hand you could run into a legal problem if you are in an excessive force case (especially if deadly force is used). So basically I wouldn't take anything off, but that's just me.

[JonathanE]

I still have all three availible. After the initial training on the X26, I thought this would be the go to device. However, our department has seen instances of what I will call user error with the X26 as well as low batteries causing a less than needed shock and heavy clothing in winter causing a less than needed shock as well.

Just using my thinking, there are times when perhaps the OC spray should be used instead. Just remember that it takes a couple of seconds to kick in. There are other times when the ASP is needed.

I am one of those guys that likes to carry a lot of equipment for the "what if I need it" scenario.

[corporal716]

I say keep it all. I'll take any tool they give. Just like you said the what if I need it scenario. There are way to many what if's to plan for. I think thats why I liked the job. Every day and every event were diffrent

[Kegan30317]

I would keep the OC, if for nothing else dogs. I like the taser. I have the training but not the taser itself. Most guys who are part of the "Frequent Felon" program aren't too worked up if they get sprayed, but they don't want any part of having to 'ride the wire' as I have heard it described.

[LeeRoy]

Originally posted by JonathanE
...perhaps the OC spray should be used instead. Just remember that it takes a couple of seconds to kick in.


I had it take a full two minutes (as measured by the tape of the radio traffic later) to kick in before it took full effect on a bad guy.

Most of the time Tasers suck the fight out of combative folks. OC and batons still belong on your belt though.

[silverr6]

When I was working security for the local hospital I noticed a lot of our local police officers carrying tasers although instead of carrying them on their belts they were carried in a chest holster or leg holster, one officer I think even carried it in the side pocketof his BDU's, although I don't know that he always kept it there, he was dealing with a nasty individual at the moment so that may have been a temporary thing.

Although I am not experienced yet I would not be in a hurry to go taking stuff off my belt and would try looking into other options before trying to decide which piece of equipment I would not need. These local officers however are not allowed to carry batons at all so all they have for back-up if the taser doesn't work is their OC.

Here in MN one of my SKILLS instructors told us a story of one of his partners who ended up wrestling with a guy (a frequent flyer, always a PITA) for a very long time until back-up could arrive. The taser effect had been minimized because the guy was wearing heavy carhart clothing, it was around 10 below that whole week.

[corporal716]

I think Sacramento CA had an accidental shooting when an officer drew and fired what he thought was his taser.;)
If I were to carry one I'm not sure where I would keep it, but I don't think it would be on my belt. Mybe a BDU pocket.

I would not give up the good old batton. The Taser is a mechanical/electrical device, OC is a chemical. They both can brake down over time. I have never seen a wood batton fail to fire.:D

I have never been a big fan of the ASP, I have seen them not deploy do to bad maintenance. Plus you can not do as much with them as you can with the wood batton or PR24.

I have used Tasers, OC, wood battons, and the Aps. I don't put all my eggs in the same basket.

[jnc36rcpd]

I'm the taser and OC coordinator for my agency. Just to show how old and, in theory at least, wise I am, I'll mention that I was part of the implementation program for both weapons (and for the PR-24 if you don't now realize I'm over the hill).

The taser is the go-to weapon in out agency and rightly so. Nonetheless, we require that officers carry both OC and the expandable baton. First, we do not have enough tasers for every officer. Secondly, tasers have been known to fail, be left in the cruiser, or be charging at the station when an officer faces the moment of truth.

Most importantly, however, the taser is not always the right tool for the job. A taser is difficult to deploy against a fast-moving pit bull. It's a one shot weapon. While it has great psychological effect, our adversaries will quickly realize that if Snap is tasered, Crackle and Pop cannot be lit up by the same officer. OC or a well deployed baton can be much more useful than a taser that is putting Snap on the wire.

Be safe.

[sarone]

I am instructor certified for my department....
We require that the officers still carry all of the options.

ASP / OC / and Taser
There are uses for each in their own capacity. While most of our officers choose the tazer over OC, which is great... but some day you may still need the chemical agent.

the ASP is for close quarters defense, your not going to get that with a taser very often in a combat situations

[nwohsy]

The presence of the ASP will sometimes bring compliance before it has to be used. Everyone knows what comes next after the ASP is snapped open and they fail to yield. It goes back to primal days, club hurt. Not everyone understands the taser, so it might not have that immediate intimidation factor.

[CO911]

I guess it depends on the bad guys and the area you work. In my city unholstering the taser is a bigger deterrent than getting out the baton, the oc or even the pistol. One of our female officers had a guy at gunpoint last week, he ignored her. She created distance, reholstered and drew the taser. He dropped to the ground and put his hands on his head, yelling, "don't hit me with that f%#$ing thing AGAIN!"
The bad guys here HATE the taser.

[rove80]

I hear that UK police are getting Taser real soon. It can only help but can anyone give me an idea how effective they are? I have heard that clothing and stuff can effect Taser.

Rove80

[JonathanE]

I think the effectiveness of the Taser is still being sorted out. I will tell you this. After leaving the training, you should be fairly impressed with the Taser. You get see it used in action, both video tape from actual events and video from training and then you get it feel it. (Although I have heard of some departments using clips on shoes and such.) When you get hit with the Taser the closest thing I can equate it to is getting hit with a 2x4. (I was hit in the back with it.) I mean it really felt like someone had wound up and hit me in the back. All I could do was let out a curse and then fall on the mat. The ride may only last 5 seconds (I think mine was cut a little short.) but you will swear it was like 5 minutes. Suddenly it will be over and you will be surprised at how fast you can recover from the effects.

The downside that I have seen is that with the Taser, we have had what I will call operator error, where the two probes did not impact on the person and it did not create a good connection. Also, we have had problems with low batteries not delievering a strong enough charge to the individual. Also we have seen cases of where a person wearing heavy winter clothing have not been affected as much.

I used to swear by the Taser, now I am still a proponet of the Taser, however I also think there is a place for spray and a baton as well.

Just my two cents worth. I see that there are some that are probably much better qualified and can give you much better answers.

[lapdsfinest2003]

here is a question, does it sit on your belt as in the compact version? or is it the full size that you strap to your leg, thats what we use for LAPD, we havent approved the compact one yet, but if you do have the full size then you go and get one of the clips that climbers use and you hook it onto your side handle baton ring and that way when you strap it on your leg you clip it to the ring, works like a charm

[paul810]

Im not quite sold on tasers yet. It means something else I would have to worry about being grabbed off my belt and used against me, I don't think it would work through the vest, but there is still plenty of places it would work. I could just see in a struggle a suspect grabbing my taser while i'm protecting my gun, using it on me, leaving me helpless on the ground. Not a good thought.The one thing I like about mace is I can still fight back if it is used on me, so the only thing I really have to worry about being grabbed off my belt and used on me is my gun.