remember 9/11

[seaker]

Maby this is of topic but I want to spend a minute to remember our fallen citizens from 9/11 and our warriors in the middle east that fight a war with no end in sight. keep the memories of 9/11 alive forever.

seaker :cool: :rambo: :biggun1:

[papimike]

Yes indeed many have forgotten. Many out there are full of bullsh@$. Heck, a couple of guys here didn't even mention 9/11 and are hooping it up at some backyard bar-b-ques right now. If you can prep for a barbque today, then you can make time to attend one of the many memorial services, especially if you are here in the NYC area. Shame on those who are in the area and don't.

According to Bush, 9/11 is why we are in Iraq (that's a whole other issue). We are still losing guys in Iraq. U.S. citizens need to reflect and pay tribute, if not, I'll be the first to say that you're not and should not be a U.S. citizen, and should go $@%@ yourself.

I also hope that the powers that be have a lock on Osama Bin Ladin, since HE is /was our target, not that bastard Saddam. Is Saddam responsible for killing THOUSANDS of U.S. citizens and military officials? NO. Is Bin Ladin? YES. -- sorry for my little rant.

[ChicagoDEAApp]

Righteous sentiments Papi!

[kathym]

The people that lost their lives and their families on 9/11 shall live in my
heart forever.

[garza]

The families of those who lost loved ones on this terrible day are in my prayers. Let us never forget.

[Temple]

Papimike: Thank you for posting that!!! I scream every night..why are we in Iraq!!! Now over a thousand very brave men/woman dead! However, according to the election polls, I'm in the minority. :o

[Joe Friday]

God bless our victims. God bless our troops, and God bless the United States of America.

[Spione]

I live in NYC. I went down to Ground Zero a few days after 9/11. I can't begin to describe what I saw: a hopeless place, seemingly devoid of God. As I stood and stared, I noticed this handmade stand off to the side but close to the wreckage. A bunch of broken pieces of plywood were nailed together to form a shelter. In it, were two chairs, both singed, and one half standing.

At the top was a sign; someone had spray-painted in black, "Fort Apache." An oasis amidst death and chaos, Fort Apache, for those of you who don't know, was the infamous police station in the South Bronx, a distressed and crime-ridden area in the 60s and 70s.

That small station was a sign of hope to me, a message that we will rebuild and won't give up.

I tell this story, not for myself, but for those who perished on 911 and for those of you in law enforcement, for you are people who never run away from danger but run directly into it. I thought you might appreciate this story.

[Eaglearm]

A grave time in our society. Hope it never happens again. :(

[The Brown Hornet]

..why are we in Iraq!!!

I'm not going to start a debate here, mainly because I respect the other point of view on this topic very much. I don't really think there is win-win situation in this fight, my prayer is that good wins out over evil.

My belief is we are/were there in the face of tyranny. A murderer, and his henchman have been brought to justice. Whether the reasons and motives were right, is certainly open to question, and in this society you have that right.

America, sometimes to our own detriment, seems to look out for the world that can't look out for itself. It isn't wrong to act in a way that may be related to your self-preservation. I think that is what we're at least trying to do in the Middle East. Some think it's not our fight, not our business. Standing up to oppression and totalitarianism has always been our business, popular or not. The forces of darkness do not recognize political and geographical borders. The nature of this enemy is such that their extremism isn't just an enemy of the United States, but to all mankind. Our destiny as human beings is intertwined.

Our country's history is frought with great success and some real blunders. What I try to remember is what you DON'T see on CNN: the countless aid programs we fund all over the world, the people we liberate, medicate, and educate, the democratic principles that at least we try to defend (even if it isn't in our best interest), and the fact that in the history of the world no country has ever held so much power, and abused it so little. Much of our prosperity is used to better the world, but much like police work, you hear more about the mis-steps than the good intentions and success. I've seen most of the world, and we are a fortunate people. My belief is that also brings a responsibility: to protect the innocent and use the blessings you have to resist those who would oppress people unable to defend themselves.

Freedom comes with a price, something too easy to forget when you've had it all your life. Right, wrong, or indifferent, this country is my home. God bless every man and woman that defends this nation, and by doing so the entire world.

[Brad00111]

Just wanted to say God Bless you all who put your lives on the line for all of us everyday. And while some may do so more than others, you all deserve the thanks of a grateful nation.

Godspeed

[qwerty3737]

>According to Bush, 9/11 is why we are in Iraq (that's a whole other issue).

9/11 was a wake up call. No one ever claimed a direct link between 9/11 and Iraq.

>Osama Bin Ladin, since HE is /was our target, not that bastard Saddam.

Are we only limited to one target? And, no, Iraq has not taken from Afghanistan the numbers and substance of military forces needed to go after OBL.

>Is Saddam responsible for killing THOUSANDS of U.S. citizens and military officials? NO.

Bush never said he was. Step back from 9/11 and gaze out at the big picture of threats, strategy, and the future. Saddam has a history of using weapons of mass destruction, and giving money and material to terrorists, as well as welcoming them in his country. Not to mention the humanity of the Iraq War to stop hundreds of thousands of more people being murdered by Saddam as have been for the past decades. We are shedding American blood for others' immediate future, and for our long-term future. It has always been that way, and I'm damn pround of that.

[papimike]

Brother, it's all politics. If we are true humanitarians we would be in Sudan stopping the genocide that's occuring now. We would also be in many other countries.

My only point is that after 9/11 promises made to US were to get those responsible for the attacks. All I can say is that Bin Ladin is the top of that food chain, not Saddam -- no link to 9/11.

[BelAir1]

Yes indeed many have forgotten. Many out there are full of bullsh@$. Heck, a couple of guys here didn't even mention 9/11 and are hooping it up at some backyard bar-b-ques right now. If you can prep for a barbque today, then you can make time to attend one of the many memorial services, especially if you are here in the NYC area. Shame on those who are in the area and don't...

I couldn't agree more. It really gets under my skin when people I work with....people who wouldn't even have jobs if 9/11 didn't happen....forget about not only that day, but forget about it the rest of the year. FYI, for those that haven't seen it, there are two other threads from yesterday regarding 9/11. Please take a minute to post on each:

http://www.911jobforums.com/vB/showthread.php3?t=34858

http://www.911jobforums.com/vB/showthread.php3?t=34853

God Bless the victims and families of 9/11....and May God continue to Bless America.

[ChicagoDEAApp]

Brother, it's all politics. If we are true humanitarians we would be in Sudan stopping the genocide that's occuring now. We would also be in many other countries.

My only point is that after 9/11 promises made to US were to get those responsible for the attacks. All I can say is that Bin Ladin is the top of that food chain, not Saddam -- no link to 9/11.

Papi -

Gotta ton of respect for you and your team up in the Big Apple, but I need to respectfully disagree with you here for a minute.

First off, nobody think US foreign policy is humanitarian based - and neither has anyone articulated such. But give credit where credit is due - the US has brought the Sudan into public focus and is driving for international intervention there (much ballyhoo about needing to that - and this proves the point; if a conflict or issue isn't a direct and seemingly imminent threat ot the US, we are willing to do coalition building.)

Second, your statement that the war on terror should be all about bin Laden, and that it isn't and shouldn't be about Saddam Hussein, is, respectfully, wrongheaded.

I agree that we want bin Laden's ass on a stick - no questions, no lawyers, no half-measures. And if this is a partisan issue wit you I won't try to disabuse you - you got your right to think what you want anyway. That said, Iraq held two known terrorist leaders - the first al Zarqawi, who continues to terrorize US citizens in Iraq and in the region (USAID worker killed in Jordan before the war started) and another crapbag, his name escapes me as my caffeine has yet to kick in, the one who killed Leon Klinghoffer on the Achille Lauro. And that's just non-state terrorists. (We won't talk about Saddam's command structure, just to keep this argument tight.)

Second, and as a NYer I should think you might appreciate this - again, if this is a partisan thing on your end, I am cool with that so just huff and tell me to pound sand - but Iraq was about PREVENTING another 9-11.

The question is often bantied about - what if we could have killed bin Laden and his a-hole crew before 9-11? Well, here we have a country that celebrated 9-11, who has used WMD in the past, threatened to use it on US troops and allies in the region, who refuses to let inspectors in to verify he is not producing WMD, and who is funding terrorist orgs in the region (HAMAS, Islamic Jihad, to be specific).

Now, imagine if another 9-11 occurred - people would have said, "Jeeesh Dubya - the writing was pretty much on the wall there, and we didn't do anything about it! Why not!? I thought you weren't going to let another 9-11 happen?"

Anyway, this is a huge national argument I realize and I absolutely appreciate what you and your teammates there in NYC have endured; you are all national treasures, inspiring others and simply being exemplars of professionalism - and we thank you.

Sometimes it just helps to step back from it - we all want bin Laden, but we also all know it isn't going to end anything once we catch him. It will make me feel better though :) and hopefully you too.

Keep up the good work Mike, and be safe!!!

[snowdog650]

Hhmm. All this talk about people already forgetting the significance 9-11, and look where this discussion has gone.

If there is ever a day to put aside petty politic-speak, yesterday was the day to do that.

[ChicagoDEAApp]

Actually Snowdog - it looks like the political posts are from today - we did honor yesterday (look around in News Forum too for other threads on honoring 9-11).

[geodetective]

I sent the following email last night to my friends and family, but it also seems appropriate to share it here:

It's strange to wake-up in a city just three years ago ravaged by terror and see the changes. Pedestrians no longer duck for cover when a moving van backfires and smiling mothers look on as their children play in the park without fearing the world their little ones will grow into. It is altogether good that we have returned to a life somewhere near normal. However, we seem to have failed in distinguishing normal from forgetful.

Popular culture would have us believe America has brought shame on itself - that we somehow deserved the brutality of 9/11, if not in the years preceding it, then certainly in the years since. We're told we're unilateralists, bullies, cowboys, lone soldiers fighting an unjust war. We're told it is inappropriate to use 9/11 as a rallying point for a political campaign. We should shed our national security and sovereignty in favor of an introspective approach to international affairs. To accept these assertions is to accept that 9/11 was simply a snapshot, a moment in time - a moment somehow unconnected to the previous or the next. In reality, we woke up on September 12th to a new paradigm. In international terrorism, we face an enemy unrestricted by the concept of time. In their own words they have warned us - they will strike us again - when they are ready. To believe we are secure because three years have elapsed since the last major act of international terrorism on American soil is a fallacy.

Today, my wife and I were at a street fair on 7th Avenue, just north of Times Square, where we saw British bobbies and Austrian national police officers in dress uniform hamming it up with tourists and posing for pictures. The smiles on their faces belied the somber purpose of their visit to the Big Apple, to participate in this morning's memorial. But their visit is also a reminder that we are not in this war alone. International terrorism is the enemy of all freedom loving people, on each and every continent.

On this third anniversary of the attacks, people around the world paused and reflected, each in a very intimate and different way. In Tokyo, people gathered with lit candles and formed a giant peace sign. In New York, family members returned to the site of the World Trade Center and recited the name of each fallen hero. In the darkest holes of this world, people gathered and celebrated the Jihadists victory over the infidel. In Riyadh, a bomb was detonated outside an American bank. In Basra, a bomb exploded near a U.S. Consulate.

There are unpleasant and stark realities in the world of the post-9/11 paradigm. In New York, over 100 babies were born to widowed mothers. Families buried empty caskets because their loved ones were wiped completely from this earth. Rescue workers who worked tirelessly to recover their lost brothers and sisters live in fear of sleep because of the visions, feelings, and smells that haunt them when they close their eyes. Our eyes avert the television when footage of planes crashing and people falling is replayed. We don't enjoy thinking about these realities. However, we simply do not have the luxury of forgetting the reality of the world we live in.

Tonight, two bright beams of light rise steeply over the Manhattan skyline; they are beacons to this country, and to the world. The message is simple - Remember.

[Jedi]

Unfortunately, I was travelling all day yesterday and was unable to attend any formal services remembering 9/11. I was able to listen on the radio in the car while the stations played segments from the news broadcasts of 3 years ago, and the memories brought back were pretty painful. God bless to all of those who were in New York, DC, and Pennsylvania that day, and to the rest of my brothers in arms around the world taking the fight to the bad guys.

Now, all that aside, here's my thoughts on Iraq. 9/11 may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but anybody in this country who HONESTLY thinks that Bush ordered an invasion on Iraq based on some personal agenda for a failed assassination and/or a link to the 9/11 terrorists is sadly mistaken. American and British pilots have been fired on almost daily since the end of the Gulf War, enforcing *gasp* UNITED NATIONS sanctions. So maybe GW had something personal to settle with Saddam--I say it was about time somebody with enough cajones stepped into office and actually punished that man for the brazen disregard he's had not only towards us and the Brits, but to the United Nations as well. Bottom line--even if September 11th had never happened, the President had EVERY right to use military force against Iraq. Guess if the UN Inspector General's son hadn't been making money off of some dirty Iraqi UN deals, maybe they'd be in agreement here too.

Ah, the things CNN likes to omit from their reports.

[papimike]

I hear you brother. I'm not playing along political lines here, just pointing out what I believe to be the obvious.

I know Bin Ladin was festering under Clinton and pre-Clinton. I don't think Bush senior did anything about Bin Ladin back then (please correct me if I am wrong). Clinton didn't do all he could do, but he did a little. He did approve of a Tomahawk missle strike at a location where we believed Bin Ladin was at in Afghanistan. It hit its target, but Bin Ladin had left the location about 2 hours prior. We of course did multiple hits on terrorist training camps in Afghanistan. We alos had some other opportunites to zero in on him, but chose not to due to the chance of collateral injuries or deaths that would have occured to some prominent arab leaders. Some of the opportunities also arose while Clinton was involved in the Lewinsky scandal. I'm pretty certain that he would have been bashed even more if he would have struck Bin Ladin during that time frame -- folks would have thought he was diverting attention away from his scandal and it probably wouldn't have been acceptable to many folks in the country. Also recall that we were working with certain arab countries and with our cooperation and resources we had arabs on the ground in Afghanistan who did attempt to kill Bin Ladin on a few different occasions, but failed. ------Again, I say all of this just as fact, not along political lines.

Who is at fault for 9/11????? Many folks under Bush junior, many folks under Clinton, many folks under Bush senior, etc.... It was a collaborative failure to keep our country safe. We as a country, including most citizens, never dreamed in our worst nightmares that foreign terrorists could strike us here at home.

Politics. Politics, demographics, etc.. dictate that we have to back Israel and other countries. Military strategies dictate that we have to back certain other countries. Economics and politics dictate that we have to back certain other countries.

Let's face it. If we were really serious about fighting terrorism and not concerned with politics and other back door issues we would kick the sh$% out of Saudi Arabia. How many terrorists have ties to that country? How many 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia? How many connections have we found between terrorist groups and funding out of Saudi Arabia? -- That country and its leaders are full of it, big time and if this were a perfect world we would be in there as we are in Iraq.

Bin Ladin has been a threat to the U.S. for many years now. Years ago the CIA even had a sole unit dedicated to following and taking out this guy (about 20 employees in the unit). -- public information at this point. How did our top leaders, or why did out top leaders allow Bin Ladins family into the U.S.?? Why would we allow his family members to do business here in our country?? Why would we allow his family members to leave U.S. soil immediately after 9/11?? -- Our business in the middle east is and always will be dirty. Heck, politics is a dirty game/business.

Did someone need to take out Saddam? Yes. Should it have been us, right now? I don't think so. That of course is my little opinion. If someone had just killed my family (Bin Ladin), I know that I would go after him with a true vengance and use every ounce of money, skill, wit, etc.. at my disposal to ensure I do get him as quickly as possible. I would not go after someone else (Saddam) until I got that bastard that killed my family. I would not branch out and place any of my resources towards someone else until I had gotten the bastard that killed my family first.

I can look back at tons of "events" and think, "Why?" When we sent all of those troops to get Manuel Noriega, was that necessary. Didn't we back him and basically put him into office, knowing he was a drug dealer? Didn't we then go after him with a vengance once he stopped cooperating with us? Wasn't it only until then that we pronounced he is a huge threat to the U.S. and we must capture him and bring him to justice? If that was truly the case then we would have invaded other countries like Colombia and Jamaica where massive amounts of drugs were coming from back in the day. We would have taken out Pablo Escobar, and so many other Colombian and Jamaican drug lords in a few days like we did with Noriega. -- It's all politics and dirty back door dealings. The dems have done it and so have the republicans. That's just the way it is.

Hey, sometimes we agree on things and sometimes we don't. It's good to hear / read other folks views. I love hearing/reading all sides of an issue.

[papimike]

On the original topic...

I will never forget and I am as American as a TRUE American can be. Give me my apple pie and pay me a higher wage so I can buy that house with the white picket fence.

I went to 2 memorial services, one at ground zero and one at a memorial wall. Yes indeed, the pain is still there. You can feel it from those who lost husbands, wives, kids, etc... You can feel it from those 1,000 or so whose remains we have not discovered or identified yet -- Yes we are still doing DNA on body parts to identify remains, no matter how small in size the actual remains are.

I know I can relive images and feelings from that day like it was yesterday. Occasional nightmares and daymares (if such a word) are part of it. There's still a few things out there that those of us down there witnessed that couldn't be seen on tv. The constant flow ,from each of the towers four sides, of people jumping. It wasn't a small number. We are talking several hundreds or more of folks jumped to their deaths and disintegrated upon impact with their pulverized remains striking those of us who were right there. So many innocent folks who were at their desks working to support their families and then the next minute forced to jump to a certain death or be burned alive by 2,000 plus degree heat. So many firefighters and cops who couldn't get out even if they wanted to because their radios weren't working and because they were exhausted from already walking up 60, 70, 80 plus flights of stairs with a hundred or so pounds of gear each. So vivd memories like this keep the anger alive that we have not put 100% into getting Bin Ladin. It sucks and is bullsh&%. I have many NYPD buddies who have been in Iraq for many, many months now with their reserve units. They are all completley pissed off that they are in Iraq and not in Afghanistan. They send us letters monthly expressing their utter anger, etc.... They are completley pissed off to be engaged in gunfights in Iraq and not in Afghanistan going after Bin Ladin. They are completley pissed off knowing that they may die in Iraq for what they believe to be no good reason and want to live, but would have no problem laying their lives down in Afghanistan if they were going after Bin Ladin. There are alot of them over their who are truley pissed off like that.

And a big thank you to the international community as well. After midnight I continued to reflect with some cops from Toronto. They came down in uniform 56 strong. The support from all over the nation and world has been tremendous and the families and the rest of us really appreciate it.

God bless America.