View Full Version : Why it's important to plan ahead...
Here's an article of interest to those that want to carry off duty all the time. Whether or carry or not to carry is a matter of personal preference and/or agency policy. This agent demonstrated that he not only carries, but he's trained, and prepared to do what is neccessary.
Question to those that like to carry off duty: Do you carry a spare mag? Do you carry your cuffs? Do you carry in a holster and configuration to is not only practical, but one that you have trained with?
I'd say if you answer "NO" to any of the above, you may want to revaluate when, where, and why you carry off duty.
Case in point: There are times when I don't carry. There are times when I do. In my mind, I have a mental check list before I plan to spring into action.
Clearly in this scenario, the agent had the means to stop a person that was willing and capable of carrying out deadly violence. This agent had to very quickly weigh the consequences of getting involved with his family near by.
I only bring this up, b/c it seems I know too many that want to carry, NOT for the reasons we would like, but b/c they are trying to impress either themselves or somebody else. In essence, they're only carryin' for the "Cool Factor".
http://www.wftv.com/news/3981423/detail.html
State Agent Fatally Shoots Gunman On Crowded Street
POSTED: 11:36 am EST December 8, 2004
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. -- An off-duty state agent out with his family fatally shot a gunman trying to hijack cars on a street crowded with holiday shoppers and rush-hour traffic, officials said.
David E. Merrill, an agent with the Florida Division of Alcohol Beverages and Tobacco, fatally shot William E. Gearhart on Tuesday evening after Gearhart fired a shot at him, officials said. Neither Merrill nor any of the bystanders were injured.
Officials said the incident began when Gearhart, 46, of Largo, sideswiped another vehicle on busy Park Street. He abandoned his station wagon and walked to a nearby Wal-Mart parking lot, where he tried to steal a car.
When an off-duty, unarmed Pinellas County jail guard confronted him, Gearhart pulled a gun and told the officer to back off. The guard complied.
Gearhart then went back on the street and began waving his gun and banging on cars, demanding that they stop in an apparent attempt to take one. None stopped.
"He was absolutely crazy," witness Helen Ibbitson said.
Merrill, who was leaving the Wal-Mart lot with his wife and two children, saw the commotion. He left his van, pulled his gun and confronted Gearhart, telling him to drop his weapon. Gearhart refused and fired at least one shot that missed Merrill and bystanders, officials said.
Merrill returned fire, striking Gearhart in the chest.
"That man (Merrill) was a good mark," Ibbitson said.
Gearhart died an hour later at the hospital. Friends of Gearhart who arrived at the scene believe he had been on a drug binge.
State records show that Gearhart was a registered sexual predator and had an extensive criminal record dating back to 1976. Pinellas County sheriff's detectives had issued an alert last week for Gearhart, saying they wanted to question him over the theft of a gun and car. It was unknown if the gun he fired Tuesday was the gun that had been stolen.
Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press.
kingpervis
12-08-2004, 14:31
I don't typically carry off duty, but sometimes I do. I usually don't carry because the only gun I have is the Glock 17. Trying to conceal that is like trying to conceal a cannon strapped to your hip. Plus, as for carrying an extra mag, cuffs and whatnot, I wouldn't even know where to put that stuff on my person and keep it concealed.
Intrepid
12-09-2004, 11:02
Excellent lesson Macleod...thanks for a great reminder.
It is funny you bring up the "cool factor". When I first became an agent, I carried off duty just because the agency allowed me to-not really thinking of safety. Now, I carry for personal/family safety. And, I think it is just the right thing to do.
What is funny is that I don't know when the mindset changed from "well, the agency says I can carry, so I will" to my current state of mind "I will not leave the house without being armed."
Also, while with my wife in town, I have spotted two individuals (two seperate times) that I had arrested in the past. I will tell you, the "what ifs" start to run hard through the mind.
Just a question though, do most carry extra mag and cuffs when off duty? Never thought of it much before myself...however, that mindset is changing as I reread this article.
Whenever I carry, be it on duty or off, I carry an extra mag and cuffs. I guess I look at a mag and cuffs like credentials, got to have them if I carry off duty.
Well, you can argue for and against when it comes to the "extras". I guess it's more situational dependent. My thought has always been, that if I get into an OD situation where I have to intervene to the point that I have to unholster, then it's going to be pretty serious. If I get someone on the ground, I don't want to be fiddle-fartin' around with my weapon in one hand and trying to get out my cell phone to call 911. I want to be able to secure someone, just for that extra level of security.
When it comes to the extra mags...well, lets just say, that a few years ago I heard a war story that I've never forgotten. Guy OD, gets into a shoot out with his wheel gun, and bang x 5 he's "winchester". Then in effect all he had was a hammer. He said the the scarest feeling was when he fired his last shot and he was 0-5. He said it all worked out, that the bad guy had a malfunction and while he was trying to clear it, another player jumped in and tackled the guy--then as he said it, "It was ON-Like a pot o' bones" as they went at it.
I carry when I'm out with the wife and kids. I plan to make myself the last line of defense before it's too late. It would have to be VERY-VERY-VERY serious before I would get into the fray. I don't want or need some third party uncommitted bad guy to seize the opportunity to get the drop on my family. In other words, if someone ain't getting killed or about to get killed, I'm not introducing a weapon into a situation UNLESS I know for sure my wife and kids are on 10-8 on an egress route. The most powerful and dangerous weapon I have off duty is my cell phone.
It would have to be VERY-VERY-VERY serious before I would get into the fray.
I agree, it would have to be life or death if I am in an OD situation with my weapon drawn. No reason to be clearing leather to stop a 7-11 robbery or the likes. In plain clothes, you look like any other citizen with a gun in their hand when the uniforms show up with the code lights going and the brakes smoking. Just something to think about.
Another thing to consider carrying off duty is whether or not you'll have the full backing of your agency if you find yourself breaking leather. We just had training on our "new" rules of 24/7 carry, and CBPO isn't considered to have peace officer status in this state except in two very particular circumstances. That means I won't be protected as my actions being in the "scope of my employment," outside of those two types of circumstances, and I would be personally liable, not the government. Which is not a good place to be in, personal liability insurance or not. I won't get into my personal feelings about CBP's "interim" firearms policy, but it is what it is and that's law. Most people would still do what they have to do, but it might make one reconsider what "have to do" comprises.
Anyway, point being, consider carrying (in addition to the extra mag(s), cuffs, creds) a copy of your agency's carry policy. And I thought this job would be just like SWAT... :rolleyes:
The most powerful and dangerous weapon I have off duty is my cell phone.
AMEN!! I'm having to "play" cop for four days on, 1 off then come back for three more..... I have NO plans on jumping in any kind of confrontation on my day off UNLESS as above stated, it's a VERY VERY SERIOUS situation.
kennethm3
12-09-2004, 20:47
I carry off duty for protection only but do keep a set cuffs and extra mags in the glove boxes of both our POVs. You never know when you'll end up in the middle of something ugly, like L.A. in April '92 and you are just trying to get home.
Crxster21
12-09-2004, 21:28
I carry off duty for protection only but do keep a set cuffs and extra mags in the glove boxes of both our POVs. You never know when you'll end up in the middle of something ugly, like L.A. in April '92 and you are just trying to get home.
I watched that on the "Local" news and that was scarry.
UncleSugar
12-09-2004, 22:45
Plus, as for carrying an extra mag, cuffs and whatnot, I wouldn't even know where to put that stuff on my person and keep it concealed.I don't carry all the time either, but with regard to having difficulty concealing additional gear, good carry gear has made my cuffs, small canister of OC spray, extra mag, and Sig 228 disappear even when wearing shorts and untucked polo shirt.
I don't always carry OC (or an ASP), and a spare magazine, but if I have my creds with me I carry my gun, and cuffs.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.