HK P7M8 Pistol, Any body have one??? [Archive]

FedRich

01-16-2005, 15:14

I carried the P7M13 on the Park Police. I liked carrying/shooting it, but it is not without problems. If you fire more than 30 rounds, the frame heats up to the point of being uncomfortable to hold. They seemed to break alot too. After returning from FLETC for the academy, I had to get a new slide. Whenever it was inspected by armory personnel, something had to be replaced on it. The grip cocking mechanism, besides being bulky, is very complex and we were repeatedly warned not to mess with it. When I switched agencies and switched to the Glock, I had to be de-programmed from squeezing the entire grip while firing.

The P7 is very accurate due to its fixed barrel and gas retard system that helps control recoil. It is also extremely fast to reload since the grip mech. sends the slide forward and cocks the gun.

I would like to have one since I carried it as my first duty weapon, but beyond that, its time has come and gone. I think it would conflict too much with your duty weapon and really isn't as compact or light as you would think. We were offered the P7M8 as an off-duty weapon, but they cost $800. I would personally stick to something a little more conventional.

ATFpoa

01-16-2005, 17:21

I have shot it many times before. It is very accurate, and small. But: With the squeeze cocking design, you have to practice a whole new set of pistol handling skills. I thought it would be too much to learn two different manual of arms...with squeeze cocking and without.

If you carry a glock for duty, you can't go wrong with a glock for off duty.

dmclark

01-16-2005, 17:30

I've shot both and I'm sticking with the Glock. You might want to check the comparison specs for the weapons. Glock 27 IS smaller overall. DM

jts

01-16-2005, 18:52

I own a P7M8 and last I checked the pistol wasn't smaller or lighter than a G27. As someone else said, it has a unique manual of arms and one that requires significant training to master - not b/c it's hard but b/c it's not pull the trigger and shoot the way the G27 is.

Other than that, it was a good gun (for it's time) and I'd still be happy to carry one if it was all I had, but the gun gets HOT after a moderate amount of shooting and that plastic "heatshield" above the trigger does little to alleviate the situation. If you want more info you can go to hkpro or parkcitiestactical for the true P7 enthusiasts.

Not sure how you can get smaller than the subcompact Glocks unless you go with an airweight smith, keltec .32, NAA, etc. in which case you'd be better off with the Glock anyways. Dude, stick to one gun with one manual of arms and when you really need the darn thing you'll perform/default to your lowest level of training, and hopefully not below that. Plus, holsters are a bit of the PITA to make for the thing and it's expensive - around the $1000+ side for NIB. Buy ammo instead and practice, practice, practice.

watercop

01-16-2005, 19:37

I have both the P7M8 and a Glock 27. The HK is heavier and larger. As mentioned above the HK is very accurate, but heats up to the point it is uncomforable to hold. The HK overall is a great firearm, but stick with the G27 for off duty carry.

dmclark

01-16-2005, 19:42

jts: Do a Google search on both weapons and compare the overall specs. I've shot both and wanted to be sure before I responded to the thread. If you do the same, you'll note the G27 IS smaller. DM

jts

01-16-2005, 20:59

DM,
Unless I'm reading my post incorrectly, I think I stated that the P7 is NOT smaller than the G27.

"I own a P7M8 and last I checked the pistol wasn't smaller or lighter than a G27"

Eaglearm

01-16-2005, 21:11

Thanks for all the information. I was in question with the grip squeeze thing as well. I think I'll pull it off my shelf for consideration. See my next post on Walther PPK/S, .380

As far as the G27. I love the gun. But after 8hrs of beating my left ankle to death, stuck inside my pants, or carried on my vest under my uniform shirt, it starts to get old.

CanineCop

01-16-2005, 21:13

One other thing that kind of scares me with the P7 is that if you tense up on the trigger and then squeeze the cocker it will fire. This is easily rectified by training but would still bother me if I was liable for a body of officers carrying this weapon. I have heard of ADs happening, although rarely and not with officers who were using / trained with the P7 as a primary handgun.

TheGreatGonzo

01-17-2005, 01:33

One other thing that kind of scares me with the P7 is that if you tense up on the trigger and then squeeze the cocker it will fire. .

True. But, if you "tense up" on the trigger of a Glock (or Sig, or S&W, or Colt, etc), it will also fire, with no squeeze cocker involved. Squeezing the trigger is squeezing the trigger, no matter what style pistol you carry. I have a P7M8 and I love it. As of late, I have been carrying it fairly often. I don't think it will ever replace my Sigs as my every day carry gun long term, but I do believe it is one of the safest pistols in use. Personally, I think it is much less prone to AD/ND than Glocks are. The P7M8 has not had the parts breakage problems that the P7M13 has. Oddly enough, most people find (and I agree based on my personal experience) that the felt recoil is greater in the P7M13. Go figure. Besides, I have little girly-man hands and the M13 does not fit me very well.
Gonzo

jts

01-17-2005, 08:41

Eaglearm,
Not picking on you and this may seem harsh but I'm saying these things out of concern and not malice so keep that in mind when you read this.

It is my opinion that you are in serious need of guidance when it comes to firearms and gunfighting. I am not referring to your shooting ability as I have never seen you shoot, but your tactical mindset, which in my opinion is just as important if not more so. There are people that carry guns professionally and then there are gunfighters, and you IMHO fall into the former category. As people said before, the G27 is about as ideal an off duty/BUG as you can get without seriously compromising your ability to fight back. Stick with one gun for on duty and carry either the same gun or one very similar to your duty gun for off duty. And it should go without saying but unless you can help it, carry it in the same place as you do on duty and in a very similar holster if possible.

Regarding your method of carry - although I'm sure some will disagree with me, but ankle carry is a method of carry that one does either as a BUG to a primary on your hip or for social etiquette reasons (ie: you have to tuck in your shirt and can't wear a cover garment). If you are looking to compromise your gunfighting ability merely for the sake of convenience and/or comfort, then I would seriously reconsider.

Be a gunfighter and not a gun toter.

BTW, the PPK like the P7 was good for it's time.

Eaglearm

01-17-2005, 12:21

As far me carrying a gun in an ankle holster. Its was something that I would do when wearing a shirt or other clothing where a gun would be seen. Also, when working as a Detective and conducting interviews, our department has a big hang up with weapons exposed in an interview room and suspect intimidation. I know its BS, but one has to mold to that of the County Attorney. It's to late and to much BS to got through when a suspect says he was scared by observing the Detectives gun. The old knee jerk reaction takes place.

As far as my mind set. Well I've survived one critical incident in shot 7-8 times. I think my mindset it pretty much in place.

The latest weapon discussion is just that, a discussion. Although, I'm considering selling my G27, I'm considering on other options to fulfill my desire for an off-duty / back-up weapon. Maybe a subcompact 1911? :o

PEACE

01-17-2005, 12:31

Eagle -

You know what JTS is saying, and I know you know it, so I'll just thank JTS for his concerned thoughts and move on to a recommendation.

You carry the Glock now, but want to upgrade your off-duty carry a little and maybe tank some of the weight - at least from what I am reading.

In keeping with my post in the Walther thread - I'd recommend you (like JTS did here) stick with the same platform (Glock) as it is your fighting platform amd ,aybe look at the Glock .357 in the compact (sorry, I forget which model it is right off the top of my head). I hear good things about it, and though the weight/size difference may not be much on paper, it may meet your needs while still keeping your tactics clean.

Not sure, but I believe you can even use the 40 clips in it should you find it necessary.

Swing by your armory or local Glock distributor and try one on for size bro - let us know what you think.

Eaglearm

01-17-2005, 13:12

Peace, I'll give it a look. But, as once stated, I've got a G23 that I can use as a backup or off-uty carry. No use in having three Glocks when two will do the job. (Yet, one can never have too many guns in a fight :cool: )

Just didn't know if anything else out there is available for someone seeking a punch in a small package.

dmclark

01-17-2005, 13:16

Glock 36, single stack .45. DM

PEACE

01-17-2005, 13:20

Eaglearm

01-17-2005, 13:30

The GLOCK 31 is the .357 counterpart to the GLOCK 17. The GLOCK 31 is a full-size pistol with a magazine capacity of 15 rounds for law enforcement.

The GLOCK 32 is the .357 counterpart of the mid-size GLOCK 19 with a law enforcement magazine capacity of 13 rounds.

Finally, the .357 caliber GLOCK 33 is the smallest GLOCK available in this high velocity chambering.

Peace Brother, I'v checked it out using my Glock Armorers Manual. Except, a few minor details, the G33 and G27 are the same.

Thanks for the advise.........

PEACE

01-17-2005, 13:33

(I just pulled that off the Glock site.) Hahhaha - well, it was worth a try.

Reservoir Dog

01-17-2005, 19:24

I have owned a P7M8 for about 10 years. My opinion, it is a superb gun in terms of accuracy and reliability. I have shot it many, many times and have never had a single problem. It is thin, quick to get into action (with a little pactice on the squeeze-cocking mechanism), and it is super fast to reload. However, it is a heavy gun for its size. Much heavier than the baby Glocks. As others have pointed out, it gets very hot after shooting several rounds, due to the gas chamber below the barrel. If you are looking for a compact pistol, I would stick with one of the baby Glocks. They are smaller, lighter, and carry more rounds. Also: as DMClark pointed out, the Glock 36 is something you should consider. I have one of those as well, and I love it!

jts

01-17-2005, 19:44

Eaglearm,
Again, it wasn't meant as a dig on you but out of true concern. As I said before, I've never met you and my comments were only based on a very small amount of information in your thread so I may (and probably am) totally off the mark, but just in case I wasn't is why I posted the things I did and am posting the following.

I'm glad that you survived your OIS but again, just b/c you survived or even came out the victor doesn't mean that you did things correctly. I once attended a surveillance detection course run by an unnamed agency and a former police offiicer on my team said that the instructors of the course didn't know what they were doing even though they had a career's worth of experience successfully hunting terrorists and spies using the techniques they were teaching us. The former police office said that he had done surveillance as a cop many times before. Of course I relayed to him that just b/c he's done it before and that his techniques may have even worked, doesn't mean that he was doing things correctly or that there wasn't a better way to do things. Again, not being critical of you but having the mindset that just b/c you've been in a gunfight makes you a gunfighter is a sure way to promote overconfidence when in reality the confidence may be misplaced. I'll drop the subject here and wish you luck on your firearms search.

UncleSugar

01-17-2005, 20:06

Maybe a subcompact 1911? You need to know the shorter you make a 1911 the more you have issues with reliability. Add to that you are again talking a significant change in the operation of the gun you are considering. Unlike the Glock, which requires no manipulation of an external safety, you are talking about swithing to a 1911 which requires you work that thumb safety, both before and after shooting. Also, most compact 1911s will still weigh more than that G27.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 1911 and I'm working on getting a Commander size, but I wouldn't carry a compact one. Especially since my primary weapon is totally different, and once you get shorter than a 4" barrel they get real tempermental.

One advantage to keeping that G27 that hasn't come up, unless I missed it, is the fact you can use your G23 or G22 mags in it. I recently watched a video where a cop in Alabama got in a fight, the badguy got the cop's gun, and the cop used his backup. He emptied all the rounds from his .380 into the badguy, who eventually died. However, the badguy's buddies were still there and needed to dealt with, and the cop now had an empty pistol. He had to cover some ground putting himself closer to the bleeding dude's friends, to get his primary weapon. If he had a G27/G22(or 23) combo, he could have put his primary gun magazine in his backup, and had some protection for the rest of the encounter. Luckily the other guys decided they didn't want to take a chance on taking him on.

Just something to think about.

kennethm3

01-17-2005, 23:41

I would recommend against .357 SIG. I am not sure who thought a 1400-1450 fps 9mm (that is all it is basically) was a good idea for law enforcement but they were mistaken. .357 SIG doesn't give you any advantage at all over 9mm +P+ and to top it off you're going to pay almost twice as much as you would for a box of 9mm. If you reload, forget it, you can't reload the necked cases. If you want a good all around duty round you just cant beat .40S&W. You get a heavier bullet weight, 155-175 grains traveling at 1100-1300 fps. You just can't beat it.

nwohsy

01-19-2005, 22:23

I've owned a p7m13 for 19.5 years great gun, super accurate, and a true uber weapon of technology. I've thought about selling it a few times, but in the end I'm glad I kept it. I view it now as a porche 911 turbo that's parked in the garage. You roll it out on weekends to the oohs and ahhs. Everyone who sees it is impressed, but you pray it doesn't break, and you never commute with it. Same as the P7. It is just too big and complex (including the M8) to be a daily carry weapon. With current technology putting bigger calibers in smaller packages, a P7 is just impratical.