View Full Version : Glocks Malfuncting with the FBI, ATF, etc ????
Eaglearm
01-22-2005, 09:50
I know that rumors are BS. Yet, I though that I would post this request
I'm a Glock Armorer and have several Glocks and they have worked great for me. In talking with others on various forums and Glock groups, I've heard nothing but great things.
However, there is some scuttle going around that the FBI, ATF, NYPD, and varous other Agencies are having problems with their Glocks. There are so many problems (unknown type of problem) that the weapons are being sent back and the Agencies are seeking other weapon manufactures.
Does any one have a direct source for this scuttle? Such as a publication, documents, etc.
I haven't heard of many problems with the FBI Glocks. When I went through the academy we had one student whose glock kept jamming. They couldn't figure out why it was happening, so they took pictures of it and sent them off the Glock. They replaced her 22 with a new 22 and that was the end of the problem.
k9cop21811
01-22-2005, 10:41
ATF hasn't had one problem with a Glock. I assure you. But then again, we don't carry Glocks, so I'm not sure how much that helps. A good statistician could do wonders with something like that though.
I know that a year or so ago the NYPD recalled alot of its Glock 19's due to a few rare incidences in which the weapon jammed due to the shell casing not ejecting. Thats all that I have heard regarding the Glocks. I haven't had any problem with my FED issue Glock, nor has any of my co-workers.
I checked with a buddy of mine that is still repairing Glock and he hasn't heard of any "reliable" problems with any model Glock. There are always rumors about the Glock catastrophic malfunction and such but, I'm not too sure that this isn't just crap!?!?!
I am interested, though, if anyone has any info.
Jim
This link may be useful. If I recall, the problem was the ammo, not the gun.
Cascade
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/ppb.html
Kahuna5150
01-22-2005, 13:28
A few years ago Glock had a problem with some of the rails on guns that were made between certain dates. They weren't up to spec and some of them were breaking off the guns. They made new frames for all the affected guns and replaced them. I myself got a new one for my G-19. It has the same serial number as the old frame however it now has a "-1" added to the end of it.
Only other problem I've ever heard of is that sometimes the G-22 (not sure if other models had the same prob) would fail to eject/feed when a light was installed (M3 or other) on the light rail. Fix was to use a different spring either in the mags or gun itself (can't remember what). Either way Glock again provided for the free fix on that...
Do a search for it on the net. Some other forums such as glocktalk also often have lots of good info on Glock specific topics.
Kahuna
My first pistol was a G17 and although my agency uses Sigs, we do have to qualify on the G19 every so often as we carry them for certain situations. I've had malfunctions with my Sig but only due to magazine problems (mags were worn out). The problem of malfunctions however was made apparent shooting my Sig when carrying the shield. When doing shield work, I would of course shoot the Sig in my strong hand only and due to fatigue and/or a poor firing grip, the gun would malfunction at times, most likely due to limpwristing. I've heard that Glocks, due to the plastic frames actually flex somewhat when fired. I've also heard that Glocks are more prone to malfunction when limp wristing. Anyone have this issue when carrying the shield or in general?
I've also heard that Glocks are more prone to malfunction when limp wristing.
Limp wristing is definitely classified as a problem with the shooter, not the gun. I've never had any weapon related problem with G-22 or G-23. Fortunately, we have two agents that are Glock armorers. They break our duty weapons all the way down every six months.
Eaglearm
01-22-2005, 16:54
Great article and information about Portland PD.
Recently, I looked at another manufacture of pistols. Their ramp channel is smaller than Glocks. After talking with the retailer, apparently, there are feeding problems associated with various ammo manufactures combined with the feeding channel.
Something that I learned is that the Glock Feeding Channel is larger than some and when the bullet is shot the larger channel allows the casing to expand. This makes it tougher to utilize the spent casing as a reload. Maybe that is why Glocks' Warranty will not cover reload being shot.?
Fed Rich,
You are correct that limpwristing is the fault of the shooter. However, I was trying to indicate that the problem of a malfunction when limpwristing is less likely to occur with a steel (or alloy) framed pistol when shot in such a manner as compared to a polymer framed pistol. For anyone who has had to carry the shield for any amount of time, trying to fix a malfunction requiring remedial action with just one hand on the gun and one on the shield is a real PITA. I can think of other situations where a shooter can end up limpwristing such as the shooter is injured/wounded, has to fire weakhanded when injured/wounded, has their hand crushed, etc. Not being condescending as I don't know your background but things are different in combat as opposed to being on the square range shooting at paper doing your qual course or drills. Sure the Glock may perform well for hundreds of thousands of rounds when shot in your standard two hand or one hand grip under square range conditions and even dirty but perhaps in other circumstances it may not perform as well? I don't have a lot of time behind the Glock (less than 10,000 rounds and all under square range conditions without gear and other equipment) so I wanted to see what other people's experiences were with the Glock under ackward shooting positions.
Afterthought: Regarding the G23 (similar to the G19 but in .40 right?) - I've heard but never witnessed that it has problems with blowing up? KB?
I have very limited experience shooting from a shield, maybe a total of 5 hours live fire and sims, and it was with a Beretta 92. It was definitely an eye opening experience sighting through the view port and firing with a bent elbow.
I'm an FI, and we have a "problem" shooter who constantly induces malfunctions by limp wristing the G-23. Having watched this shooter, the limpwristing is extreme, and such that it would probably induce a malfunction on most semi-autos. The Glock is definitely a gun that likes to be fired with a thumbs forward grip.
In the situations you give, I think any weapon would be affected to some extent or other. I'll pose your question on the IALEFI forum regarding the Glock. I would think the propensity of the Glock to malfunction by slight limpwristing would be apparent during entry-level firearms instruction at a Police Academy. Stay safe.
FedRich,
Interesting comments. Not to sound...sexist but is the problem shooter a female? I too am a FI and have noticed this problem more among female agents then male agents. I think it is more an issue with being recoil sensitive. I'd be very interested to hear what IALEFI has to say. Thanks. Stay safe as well.
Chickw/Guns
01-22-2005, 21:27
I've also heard that Glocks are more prone to malfunction when limp wristing. QUOTE
This has been my experience teaching new agents (generally small framed individuals) but generally Glock is a fine weapon for the price no one comes close in reliability....Considering the numbers out there I don't think there has been any on going problems that Glock hasn't adresses straight away that hasn't been discussed here....Chicks
ATF hasn't had one problem with a Glock. I assure you. But then again, we don't carry Glocks, so I'm not sure how much that helps. A good statistician could do wonders with something like that though.
A good statistician can come up with stats to prove just about anything..... 46% of all people know that :D
I heard Glocks have a propensity for blowing up in your hand. Aren't you glock shooters scared of this?
I heard Glocks have a propensity for blowing up in your hand. Aren't you glock shooters scared of this?
LOL. Just wanted to get a rise out of you glockphiles out there.
Chickw/Guns
01-23-2005, 01:07
LOL. Just wanted to get a rise out of you glockphiles out there.
Now that was funny!!!!!!!!!!!Chicks
Probably the worst thing you can say about a Glock is that they are not very tolerant of crappy and/or reloaded ammunition. Since federal Glocks pretty much fire nothing but Grade A commercial ammo, this is rarely a problem.
I received two responses regarding the Glock and malfunctions from the IALEFI board. One instructor said that the frame does flex and that he had noticed an increase in malfunctions when using the M3 light and shooting weak hand. He did not see an increase when shooting without the light or with a shield, only weak hand, which he attributed to limp wristing. Another instructor stated that newer lights don't cause as many problems and attributed malfunctions to ammo problems. Hope this helps.
Eaglearm
01-23-2005, 19:37
I received two responses regarding the Glock and malfunctions from the IALEFI board. One instructor said that the frame does flex and that he had noticed an increase in malfunctions when using the M3 light and shooting weak hand. He did not see an increase when shooting without the light or with a shield, only weak hand, which he attributed to limp wristing. Another instructor stated that newer lights don't cause as many problems and attributed malfunctions to ammo problems. Hope this helps.
I have seen this problem as well and with all shooters to include myself once or twice.
I spoke to Glock HDQTS about this issue. They indicated that it was first observed with the DEA years ago. After testing with Streamlight, it was shown that if your weapon is having this problem with an attached light, then change out the Magazine Spring from a standard 10 coil to an 11 coil.
For preventitive maintenance, I replace all mags springs regardless with an 11 coil spring. Every 2-3 yrs, I put new springs in. Recently, I did this and was shocked at the difference between my new ones v old springs. It was night and day.
Thanks for the responses! Good info. Although I don't carry the G19 for my primary in most instances, we are issued the MX3 with laser. As for mag springs, my policy is that I number all my mags so I can distinguish the offending mag for swap out. In addition, my policy is to have mags that are used just for training that I keep on my tac gear, mags that I only carry for work (concealed carry) and mags that I only use for deployment OCONUS. Same goes for my M-4 mags. Fortunately, for me obtaining extra mags comes at no cost to me.
Fortunately, for me obtaining extra mags comes at no cost to me.
If only we could be so fortunate! :D
Great idea about separating training mags (which take a beating over time) and duty mags. Some agencies do issue extra mags for this purpose. I know some people who rotate mags to give the springs a break. I believe Glock recommends downloading mags during cleaning periodically.
Haha. Yeah, at least my agency does SOME things correctly! Stay safe.
I've also heard that Glocks are more prone to malfunction when limp wristing. QUOTE
...but generally Glock is a fine weapon for the price no one comes close in reliability....
Agreed!
I wish we would have gotten Glocks instead of our new Sigs... but, thats just me.
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