The New New FBI Intel Analyst Thread

[sigepuofu]

Well, since the other thread has been closed :o (I am unsure as to the reasons why 250 is the magic number, but oh well, I'll defer to the moderators). I'll start a new thread about the FBI Intelligence Analyst position. I hope this thread does stay alive. This forum has been an extremely valuable resource for me during the entire IA hiring process, and I'm pretty sure it has served a similar purpose for a lot of other people-there's nothing like it on the net that I've found.

So, here starts the new thread. Enjoy, everyone.

[BuMan]

So, here starts the new thread. Enjoy, everyone.

To summarize, the FBI is hiring lots of IAs. Recently, they did a hiring blitz at Headquarters and soon, they will be doing interviews in the field offices to cover those vacancies. At present, IAs are selected on the basis of self-reported skill sets which are generally confirmed during panel interviews. The process of getting to the interview has been speeded up somewhat, but the background still takes a long time to get through for most everyone, although there are exceptions. Staffing seems to be behind on getting out COEs and final offers of employment with report dates. Applicants feel frustrated that they don't get decent feedback on the status of their application ("Referred to selecting official" is not terribly informative.)

Right now, assignments are based on where the Bureau needs you with some consideration given to your skill set. Someone coming in at a GS-7/9 level of the IA position is not going to have a lot of ability to steer their assignment, although a candidate with experience in a particular field may end up working where they are needed.

The Bureau is in a state of change, which means that there's a bit of stress involved with the job as management, agents, analysts and, yes, even other support employees adjust to the new paradigm that is the Intelligence Directorate within the FBI. If you are interested in seeing some of the issues from a couple of months ago, check out the DOJ OIG audit report on the Bureau's Intelligence Program to see some of the results of the interviews that were conducted for the audit. There's also a number of different testimonies from EAD Baginski to various Congressional committees that may give you an idea of where things are going and how long it's going to take to get there.

What does the future hold? By August, probably testing for IA candidates, including writing samples, before they are brought on board. By the end of the calendar year, IAs will report to Quantico for in-processing and the Analytical Cadre Education Strategy 1.0 (ACES 1.0) training as an initial report location and then go to their office of assignment. The initial training will be joint training with IAs, Language Specialists and SSGs in the same class. Those are the positions which make up the Intelligence Directorate at present.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

[OrangeAlum2003]

BuMan,

Any word on when the FO interviews will begin? I have great sympathy for all those other applicants stuck in eternal "referred to selecting official" purgatory ;) I try to tell myself that this is a positive development but have not received any update for weeks. I know the Bureau is taxed right now, but they're really going to have to pick up the pieces and get moving if they want to be able to continue to recruit qualified candidates (that's not to say I assume that I'm most qualified myself).

I think in order to recruit and retain qualified candidates over the long-term, the Bureau is going to have to speed up the hiring/BI process considerably. Because as of now, the Bureau can really only hire those people who can "afford" to wait because they either have stable employment or have the means to sit through the process. At some point, no matter how much you want any job, you have to make decisions about your life and move forward. I know of few people who can afford not to work for 6 mos. - 1 year, and it's certainly difficult to be productive in a current job when you're constantly wondering about the prospect of another. I know, from experience and from others on the board, that you really have to live like the FBI doesn't exist, but that is pretty much impossible to apply emotionally. I just hope the right organizational improvements can be defined/implemented.

[BuMan]

Well, it's a double edged sword. The FBI is hiring a lot of IAs, which is good for the IA candidates out there, but at the same time, it slows the process down because there are a lot of applicants who have to be processed. No matter what, there are steps that are going to have to be addressed - the background investigation, for example. There may be steps to speed that up for people already with clearances, but for someone without a clearance, there will still be a full background required, which takes time for everyone. I've spoken a couple of times with the new Unit Chief of IA hiring in the Directorate of Intelligence and she's from outside the Bureau and recognizes the major problems with the hiring process (few or infrequent updates, pace of the process, etc.) and would like to get them addressed as soon as possible. One of the problems is the Adminstrative Services Division bottleneck. In addition to the IA hiring, there are a lot of other support positions to be reviewed right now, which means a lot of work with limited resources. This period of time is an anomoly in the Bureau. Rarely have we hired so many people over a couple of year period. It's difficult to address the problem by throwing more HR specialists at the problem, because the Bureau doesn't have that many to begin with. You can hire more, but then, when the hiring boom slows down, you've got lots of excess people for the workloads. If there's one problem, it's that the Bureau continues to get a huge number of candidates for the IA and SA positions. Until that volume of applicants disappears, it can afford to let the problem continue. The DI is trying to address it, but it takes time to change the viewpoint of the hiring people.

I've had a lot of friends go through the unemployment thing lately and not one of them has liked being unemployed and the stress that comes from not knowing where the money to pay the next month's rent or mortgage, not to mention other bills, is going to come from.

As far as the FO interviews, I don't have an exact date. I imagine it will be in the next couple of weeks - they need to get people briefed up on what they're looking for in the interviews and then start contacting people. It's tough, because the interviews may be for positions within other field divisions, which makes getting a clear picture of the candidates important.

[diablo3305]

BuMan,

I hear you about the unemployment. I have been off and on with work since graduating college two years ago. Right now I have a job, but im only a contractor and I could be cut at anytime, especially with the talk of my company cutting jobs. I'm in a field that I desperatly want to get out of. I am strongly eager to begin a career in intelligence, so hopefully the IA position works out. I am awaiting the results of my poly and the final offer (hopefully), but its tough having that in your mind. My current job is boring to me and I sometimes lose interest in what im doing at work.

I know I want to do this, its been my dream to work in the FBI, but I also need to keep my eye open for other jobs just in case it falls through. I decided a few years ago that I wanted to focus more in the LE sector, but those jobs take quite awhile to get, so its not what im used to.

So far its been a unique experience to apply to these jobs, but sometimes it can be dissapointing and discouraging. I just hope I can last long enough in the search to accomplish my goal.

[DM05]

Good to see the thread is still alive, it's good to be the most popular thread...lol.

I think we need to create an award for BuMan, he's like the "ask jeeves" of this thread. Thanks for your info BuMan, keep it coming.

[OrangeAlum2003]

Good to see the thread is still alive, it's good to be the most popular thread...lol.

I think we need to create an award for BuMan, he's like the "ask jeeves" of this thread. Thanks for your info BuMan, keep it coming.

I agree. We should all chip in and get BuMan a nice Christmas gift this year :D

From the sounds of it, for those other 2005 FO applicants like myself we may be learning more about our fate in the next couple of weeks. Let's hope!

[BuMan]

I agree. We should all chip in and get BuMan a nice Christmas gift this year :D

From the sounds of it, for those other 2005 FO applicants like myself we may be learning more about our fate in the next couple of weeks. Let's hope!

No need. Just trying to keep people informed. If you get on board and head down to QT for ACES, let me know and I'll meet you for lunch at the Boardroom.

[OrangeAlum2003]

No need. Just trying to keep people informed. If you get on board and head down to QT for ACES, let me know and I'll meet you for lunch at the Boardroom.

I'll look forward to the day. I'll just keep my fingers crossed. The only thing any of us applicants really know for sure is that nothing is certain. I wish the process was easier, but if the day comes I'm sure it will be sweet.

[eff-bee-eye]

Also, the word is that the new ACES courses (beginning later this year) will begin testing IA's on the material learned in class, similar to what the agents have to do. This will just be academic testing of course, so the IA's will still have it easier than having the physical testing on top of the academic. Although who knows, maybe they'll make you all have to run the 1.5mile, drop for 50 pushups, sprint to the coffee maker, and then pull-up your six different computer logins and e-mail accounts.

[BuMan]

Also, the word is that the new ACES courses (beginning later this year) will begin testing IA's on the material learned in class, similar to what the agents have to do. This will just be academic testing of course, so the IA's will still have it easier than having the physical testing on top of the academic. Although who knows, maybe they'll make you all have to run the 1.5mile, drop for 50 pushups, sprint to the coffee maker, and then pull-up your six different computer logins and e-mail accounts.

Don't forget juggling all of the comms gear they issue you...let's see, pager, Blackberry, Nextel, Cellular STE, and radio. I have to have a backpack just to carry all of this stuff, the chargers and spare batteries around.

[forms]

Buman--you say that eventually IAs will start out at ACES and then go off to their FOs. Do you think IAs will know what their FOs will be before attending ACES, or will they be assigned to an FO before attending?

[eff-bee-eye]

Don't forget juggling all of the comms gear they issue you...let's see, pager, Blackberry, Nextel, Cellular STE, and radio. I have to have a backpack just to carry all of this stuff, the chargers and spare batteries around.

I guess I'm lucky then. They didn't even issue me a PAGER. It's nice not getting bugged on the weekends.

[OrangeAlum2003]

Also, the word is that the new ACES courses (beginning later this year) will begin testing IA's on the material learned in class, similar to what the agents have to do. This will just be academic testing of course,

That makes good sense to me, though my opinion hardly matters at this point. I figure if you're going to invest all the time and money for 7 weeks of training you should at least make sure that people were paying attention. I think in developing the intelligence cadre within the FBI, standardized training at a central location is going to be key for developing the infrastructure necessary to perform the mission. In fact, 7 weeks to me sounds a little thin compared to other agencies. I wonder what some of you current employees think about that. I know that the CIA CAP is 16 weeks. Should the FBI mimic CIA or DIA in terms of training? I believe the CAP program actually requires 4 week rotations at another government agency. Should the FBI consider similar rotations? I know it's a tremendous strain on local FO's when your analysts are away for so long, but maybe it's a good investment in the long term. Your opinions are appreciated.

[BuMan]

Buman--you say that eventually IAs will start out at ACES and then go off to their FOs. Do you think IAs will know what their FOs will be before attending ACES, or will they be assigned to an FO before attending?

That's being debated. Nothing has been firmly decided, but there has been strong points made by various folks at the lower and higher levels that bringing IAs in without telling them where they're going or giving them a voice in the selection process, will likely deter candidates from applying in the first place or lead to a lot of impromptu resignations once they find out. IAs are not going to be involuntarily moved around like SAs based on every discussion of the topic that I've heard, so there's no sense in keeping them in the dark until they get to QT. Additionally, the time factor of 7 weeks in ACES vs. 18 weeks in NAT would make it difficult for people to make adequate plans.

That makes good sense to me, though my opinion hardly matters at this point. I figure if you're going to invest all the time and money for 7 weeks of training you should at least make sure that people were paying attention. I think in developing the intelligence cadre within the FBI, standardized training at a central location is going to be key for developing the infrastructure necessary to perform the mission. In fact, 7 weeks to me sounds a little thin compared to other agencies. I wonder what some of you current employees think about that. I know that the CIA CAP is 16 weeks. Should the FBI mimic CIA or DIA in terms of training? I believe the CAP program actually requires 4 week rotations at another government agency. Should the FBI consider similar rotations? I know it's a tremendous strain on local FO's when your analysts are away for so long, but maybe it's a good investment in the long term. Your opinions are appreciated.

The goal is to eventually have a DI Academy, separate from the FBI Academy (due to space restrictions and difficulties in meeting all of the training needs at the FBI to include in-services, ACES, etc.), which will be the initial and in-service training location and center of operations for the DI. That's a couple of years down the road, but considering the DI is relatively new, it's forward-thinking, at least. If there's one good thing to be said about the DI, it is that EAD Baginski and her management staff are not just dealing with the last problem, but constantly looking ahead to see how things can be improved in the future and trying to address the required resources now, instead of after a crisis.

Long term, one of the reasons for the mobility agreements new IAs are being asked to sign is to facilitate advancement through broadening the experience base of potential analysts. I think everyone can agree that when you have an agency that has three work roles for an IA, several major programs with very different demands and requirements, and a very different culture between headquarters and field offices (and even small field offices and large field offices), a well-rounded manager who is making decisions on the program as a whole should be experienced in most of those areas. There's talk of a requirement for further advancement and certification to be met through a variety of postings, including potentially detail assignments to other agencies and even regional intelligence centers established by state/local/tribal authorities and a series of mid- to long-term TDY assignments. Someone who spent their early years in a Field Intelligence Group may need to go to Headquarters to broaden their experience while someone who has only been at HQ may need to go to the field for a while. Just as with agents, who can choose to enter the management track and go for supervisor/ASAC/SAC positions in the field through a series of transfers, IAs will likely be faced with similar requirements to move up, although the number of positions within the Directorate of Intelligence tend to be small.

As for training, there's no reason not to test students in the ACES course and to even treat them like NATs - fail two and you're gone. The question becomes what are you testing and how do you measure it? NAT has a lot of objective things that can be tested - whether it's knolwedge and understanding of the legal training they've received or their ability to properly document information and conduct interviews. Analyst training should be to develop and produce personnel who can look at a block of information and pick out crucial themes. As we've seen with the recent war in Iraq, sometimes different organizations can look at the same information and come to different conclusions. Hindsight proves you right or wrong, but that's hard to identify in a training environment. As for the adequacy of the training, it remains to be seen.

I guess I'm lucky then. They didn't even issue me a PAGER. It's nice not getting bugged on the weekends.

You are lucky. I'm on call 24/7 for a good portion of the time. The problem with being in an operational unit with only two IAs.

[Tifalk]

Well, since the other thread has been closed :o (I am unsure as to the reasons why 250 is the magic number, but oh well, I'll defer to the moderators). I'll start a new thread about the FBI Intelligence Analyst position. I hope this thread does stay alive. This forum has been an extremely valuable resource for me during the entire IA hiring process, and I'm pretty sure it has served a similar purpose for a lot of other people-there's nothing like it on the net that I've found.

So, here starts the new thread. Enjoy, everyone.


Are there rooms or apartments allocated to provide new hires with temporary quarters?

[SEgis]

I'll look forward to the day. I'll just keep my fingers crossed. The only thing any of us applicants really know for sure is that nothing is certain. I wish the process was easier, but if the day comes I'm sure it will be sweet.

If it's too easy, it's no fun ;)

[dublin]

Ok, i looked and looked, and probably overlooked this simple question...

When new IA's go to Quantico for the alloted time for ACES, where do they stay? is it on the base or do people commute?

That's it. Let the lambasting begin. Please be gentle.

Thanks a lot,

dublin.

[BuMan]

Ok, i looked and looked, and probably overlooked this simple question...

When new IA's go to Quantico for the alloted time for ACES, where do they stay? is it on the base or do people commute?

That's it. Let the lambasting begin. Please be gentle.

Thanks a lot,

dublin.

For my colleague who started the class today, the students were told they would be at an off-base hotel for the first week and in the Academy for the final six weeks. Generally, there is a provision for local area candidates to commute to the Academy each day if they'd prefer to stay at home. If, however, someone lives on the north side of DC and doesn't want to deal with a daily commute through DC traffic, they can choose to stay at the hotel/Academy. There are also potentially some nighttime work hours, due to a lack of computers for all of the students in each ACES course, however, I've been told that students who have to come in at night get an equivalent time off during the day. Hope that answers the question.

[eff-bee-eye]

You are lucky. I'm on call 24/7 for a good portion of the time. The problem with being in an operational unit with only two IAs.

Well, I am also in an ops unit with only 2 IA's.....but we are getting in a bunch of contractors to do IA work as well.

[tdstolz]

Dear BuMan,

Previously you'd mentioned "testing for IA candidates, including writing samples, before they are brought on board." Perhaps I'm missing something, but I thought there weren't any writing or aptitude tests for IAs as there are for SAs. Can you please tell me what this testing entails?

Thanks,
Travis

[tdstolz]

Dear BuMan et al.,

A quick question regarding Quantico, in particular getting there: Is there public transportation available to the Academy? (I assume there's no Metro?) We'll likely be living in northern VA (e.g., Falls Church, Vienna), and I'd like to commute--if not every day, then at least on weekends. We'd like to got by with one car. Our concern, though, is my time at Quantico and if that's feasible.

Thanks,
Travis

[forms]

Well, I am also in an ops unit with only 2 IA's.....but we are getting in a bunch of contractors to do IA work as well.

Which company are they contracting with, is that known?

[tdstolz]

Hello, everyone.

My apologies if this question has been asked before. Does the FBI grant interim security clearances. I.e., if someone makes it through the initial investigation and awaits the adjudication at HQ, can one be granted a limited or, well, interim clearance and do ACES or something else (e.g., initial processing)? Or must one simply wait until HQ signs off and grants the actual clearance?

Thanks!

Yours,
Travis

[ZippySuzy]

The only transportation provided to Quantico is a bus from Reagan on Sunday evening, and back to Reagan on Friday afternoon. You can get a ride with SuperShuttle if you don't make the bus. I would not do a daily commute there. Other analysts in my ACES class who lived in the area only went home on the weekends. A few of them were dropped of and picked up by their spouses.

As far as the housing goes, it's really just like a college campus. Jefferson dorm has single rooms where each room has its own bath. The other two dorms have double rooms where 4 people share a bath. The buildings are all connected by habitrails, so you never have to go outside unless you want to.

Hope this answers some questions

[BuMan]

Dear BuMan et al.,

A quick question regarding Quantico, in particular getting there: Is there public transportation available to the Academy? (I assume there's no Metro?) We'll likely be living in northern VA (e.g., Falls Church, Vienna), and I'd like to commute--if not every day, then at least on weekends. We'd like to got by with one car. Our concern, though, is my time at Quantico and if that's feasible.

Thanks,
Travis

Sorry, no public transportation to Quantico. The nearest Metro station is in Springfield (about 25-30 miles away). There's a Fredricksburg Line VRE station in Quantico town, but you'd have to get to a VRE station (like Springfield) and I don't know if the southbound trains stop there in the morning. If your spouse/significant other works near Metro, you could conceivably get by with one car, but if you've got to go to Quantico, you're going to need a vehicle or stay there during the week.

[BuMan]

Dear BuMan,

Previously you'd mentioned "testing for IA candidates, including writing samples, before they are brought on board." Perhaps I'm missing something, but I thought there weren't any writing or aptitude tests for IAs as there are for SAs. Can you please tell me what this testing entails?

At present, there is no testing, but that's expected to be phased in during the fall. The testing program will probably be validated before then, but right now, there's no way to conclusively state what the testing will consist of.

[BuMan]

Hello, everyone.

My apologies if this question has been asked before. Does the FBI grant interim security clearances. I.e., if someone makes it through the initial investigation and awaits the adjudication at HQ, can one be granted a limited or, well, interim clearance and do ACES or something else (e.g., initial processing)? Or must one simply wait until HQ signs off and grants the actual clearance?

Generally, no. My unit has hired personnel with TS/SCI clearances from outside agencies, but still had them go through the whole process, even when their hiring was being conducted on an expedited basis. There may be an exception out there, but it would be very much the exception.

[eff-bee-eye]

Which company are they contracting with, is that known?

There are MANY contractors and contracting agencies supplying analysts to the FBI/CIA in the counterterrorism arena, such as at the TSC (Terrorist Screening Center) and NCTC (Nat. Counter Terrorism Center). A lot of these analysts are former military/intel with previous clearances.

[sigepuofu]

The only transportation provided to Quantico is a bus from Reagan on Sunday evening, and back to Reagan on Friday afternoon. You can get a ride with SuperShuttle if you don't make the bus. I would not do a daily commute there. Other analysts in my ACES class who lived in the area only went home on the weekends. A few of them were dropped of and picked up by their spouses.

As far as the housing goes, it's really just like a college campus. Jefferson dorm has single rooms where each room has its own bath. The other two dorms have double rooms where 4 people share a bath. The buildings are all connected by habitrails, so you never have to go outside unless you want to.

Hope this answers some questions

Oh woe is me...I'm cursed to live forever in the dorms! I thought I was done with college!! :p
Just kidding. I don't care what the housing is like, as long as I'm doing my training!!! By the way, what the heck is a habitrail? :o

[OrangeAlum2003]

By the way, what the heck is a habitrail? :o


Think hamsters.

[sigepuofu]

Think hamsters.

creepy....... :eek:

[eff-bee-eye]

Think hamsters.

Hahaaa. Seriously though, it is kinda like that. If you've ever seen one of the documentaries, like Discovery's "Making of a G man" or the like, they show these, exposed hallways with windows on both sides, kinda like tunnels between each building. It's nice on those days when it's raining/snowing so you don't have to go outside.

Just remember, the Academy was built in the 70's, so it feels OLD. The rooms feel like old dorm rooms, the bathrooms feel old and dirty, etc. That said though, it is still very exciting to be there. I wonder how the renovations (if any) will make the Academy "feel".

[jbhtx]

:rolleyes: I checked their quickhire website and have received a status downgrade from Referred to Selecting Official to only Application Recieved. The good news for others is that there is activity. For me personally maybe the selecting official didn't want me or something.

[OrangeAlum2003]

:rolleyes: I checked their quickhire website and have received a status downgrade from Referred to Selecting Official to only Application Recieved. The good news for others is that there is activity. For me personally maybe the selecting official didn't want me or something.

I noticed the same downgrade for my account today. I'm hoping it's a technical glitch, but I was certainly disappointed to see that. If the selecting official passed on us, I don't see why they would downgrade us rather than say "not selected" or something like that.

[ZippySuzy]

My office is going to be interviewing 9 potential IA's within the next two weeks. These IA's will be rated and asked all the same questions, according to a script provided to us by HQ. One of them will be hired by my office, and the others will go into the pool of IA's to be hired by the entire bureau.

Good luck to everyone who is going through this process.

[OrangeAlum2003]

My office is going to be interviewing 9 potential IA's within the next two weeks. These IA's will be rated and asked all the same questions, according to a script provided to us by HQ. One of them will be hired by my office, and the others will go into the pool of IA's to be hired by the entire bureau.

Good luck to everyone who is going through this process.

For those currently employed by the Bureau in an IA capacity (BuMan) :D, do you interpret the downgrade on fbijobs.com from "referred to selecting official" to "application received" as an indication that we will not be among those called for an interview in the next couple of weeks? This is how I interpret it, but I would be glad to find out that I am wrong. You never know in this game.

[BuMan]

For those currently employed by the Bureau in an IA capacity (BuMan) :D, do you interpret the downgrade on fbijobs.com from "referred to selecting official" to "application received" as an indication that we will not be among those called for an interview in the next couple of weeks? This is how I interpret it, but I would be glad to find out that I am wrong. You never know in this game.

Don't know what it means, sorry.

[OrangeAlum2003]

Don't know what it means, sorry.

I was afraid you might say that. Well I guess we can't expect you to answer EVERYTHING. Thanks though.

[Clem]

Thanks to everyone for all of the good information shared here. I don't have a lot of information to share in exchange, but I will report that I got a call from my local field office today. I am one the many people who have applied multiple times for an IA position. All but one of my applications has received the vague "application received" status. One application has been listed for months as "referred to hiring official."

Based upon the information I have read here, I am assuming that the FO "sweep" of applications has begun since I have received a call. Figured I'd share this news to encourage other people in my situation. It is possible to get a call. :)

[DM05]

My status changed from referred to application received as well.

[diablo3305]

:rolleyes: I checked their quickhire website and have received a status downgrade from Referred to Selecting Official to only Application Recieved. The good news for others is that there is activity. For me personally maybe the selecting official didn't want me or something.


I don't trust what that site says sometimes. I already received a CO and I am in the process of the BI, but last week my application status for FO-2005-0022 said "Not among highest qualified", now its back to normal. This isn't the announcement I originally interviewed for, but I found it odd when the status of that one changed like that.

[forms]

I applied to both FO-2005-0022 MP and FO-2005-0019 EX and was referred to selecting official for both announcements for grades GS 7-12. Now FO-2005-0022 MP has been switched back to App Recd, but FO-2005-0019 EX is still 'referred to selecting official'. :where:

What does it mean? It means somebody looked at the app and re-evaluated it, is my guess. Maybe they decided we weren't worth first round of interviews, but didn't want to reject out of hand in case the first round didn't produce likely candidates. Or...maybe it's a glitch, or maybe we were rejected. I guess no one really knows--and they aren't telling. :o

However, I also applied to FO-2004-0029 and FO-2004-0030 which closed August 9, 2004 and was interviewed on Nov 10, and felt the interview went well. They said they'd contact me soon, but it's been 6 months and I've heard nothing. However, my status is and always has been "app recd", even though I was referred, selected for interview, and then....? (I figure with the cancellations and overhaul of the hiring system, just put on hold).

I've also applied to FO-2004-0011, FO-2004-0016, FO-2004-0017, FO-2004-0025, FO-2004-0026 which closed June 5, 20 and July 25. My status has always been 'app recd'. All my apps have been for one FO, and when I interviewed, the panel was very surprised to learn that I have ever applied for other openings and other GS levels--and interested (I interviewed for a GS 12, but was only a GS 11 for the NSA--14 years ago. I think they wanted me but would have preferred a lower GS level). That they hadn't seen the other apps seems to indicate just how much disorganization there is between HQ and FO and HR and hiring panels.

I applied for FO-2004-0007 and was listed as referred to selecting official for a long time, and then over a week's period was converted one by one, grade by grade to 'not selected'. :crying: But this tells me that they do use that status comment when they have lost interest.

However, after not selecting me for for FO-2004-0007, they didn't deselect me for anything else such as the summer 2004 apps or the apps I interviewed for, and they did refer me to the 2005 apps.

There were several announcements that were cancelled, but of the six that were cancelled only two are identified under status as having been cancelled. Four cancelled announcements still say, 'app recd'. :rolleyes:

It would be interesting to know who is doing the updating of the status. If it's the FO, it would have more meaning, I would think. If it is random people at HQ assigned to processing a particular announcement, then I suspect each individual HR person has their own way of doing it and there is very little meaning. And that the HR person processing the FO-2004-0007 apps has no communication with the person processing the FO-2004-0030 apps (and is working on a different time schedule). That might be why my FO got the FO-2004-0030 app but never heard of my applying for the FO-2004-0011 announcement even though it closed two months earlier.

That's my working hypothesis. Or maybe I'm way off-base. When you have no information, it is tempting to over analyze what you do have. ;) The status info might be completely random for all any of us know. :mad:

But it seems that there is enough confusion and disorganization that it does make it worthwhile to apply everytime, in case one app 'gets through' even though the others don't.

The last thing: when I interviewed, the panel expressed a lot of frustration with the way things were going. They just wanted to hire people and seemed to be almost as frustrated by the process as I was.

[forms]

My last post scared everyone off this thread, I guess. LOL

Just got a call from my FO of choice to come in for an interview. Maybe things are moving now for the FO apps?

[sigepuofu]

Congratulations. An interview is a big step. I got a lot of questions about my writing ability (apparently you write a lot as an IA or something :rolleyes: ). You might want to think of the kinds of writing projects you've had to do in school or in your current job.

Good luck, try to relax when you go into the interview. Be confident in yourself and your answers and you'll knock it out of the park. :cool:

[sigepuofu]

[QUOTE=forms}
I applied for FO-2004-0007 and was listed as referred to selecting official for a long time, and then over a week's period was converted one by one, grade by grade to 'not selected'. :crying: But this tells me that they do use that status comment when they have lost interest.

However, after not selecting me for for FO-2004-0007, they didn't deselect me for anything else such as the summer 2004 apps or the apps I interviewed for, and they did refer me to the 2005 apps.[/QUOTE]

The same thing happened to me. But, when I interviewed, I found out that this just meant that I wasn't selected for the FO that I was interviewing for (apparently, the SLC field office wanted me, but since I was an alternate, they didn't have the funding to add me and the primary candidate. That's why I got shipped to HQ, and they took me at HQ). I think that's why I got asked during my BI if I'd relocate to DC. So, things'll probably work out for everyone in the end.

[sigepuofu]

So, for all of the current IA's on the board-

What were your first few days on the job like? My EOD is rapidly approaching, and I was wondering what they are just so I could know what to expect.

....starting to get a little nervous-9 more days and I'm starting!! :)

[BuMan]

Depends on where you're starting. If you're going to a HQ position, your first few days will be astoundingly boring...in-processing with all other HQ new hires for three days. Don't know what the field office in-processing is like, but I would expect something similar - at least a couple of days spinning your wheels. What you do when you get done with the in-processing varies, but usually will include the rest of the little details that didn't get done (security paperwork for needed clearances, travel card issuance, etc.). The first week or so, in other words, is going to be a lot of borng paperwork.

[sigepuofu]

Thanks for the info, oh wise, all-knowing Yoda...I mean, BuMan. (Sorry, the hype for the new SW movie must be wearing off on me).

I figured it would be a lot of paperwork, like you said, and orientation and all that. I hope they give me a map to find my way around HQ-when I went back there for my interview, it's a good thing I had someone escorting me around-I was lost on my own.

oh, the wait goes on. Starting to really get anxious to make the move-its the biggest thing to happen to me in my 23 years on this mortal coil. Hope it all goes well!

[BuMan]

Thanks for the info, oh wise, all-knowing Yoda...I mean, BuMan. (Sorry, the hype for the new SW movie must be wearing off on me).

I figured it would be a lot of paperwork, like you said, and orientation and all that. I hope they give me a map to find my way around HQ-when I went back there for my interview, it's a good thing I had someone escorting me around-I was lost on my own.

oh, the wait goes on. Starting to really get anxious to make the move-its the biggest thing to happen to me in my 23 years on this mortal coil. Hope it all goes well!

It will take a while to figure out your way around headquarters - it takes everyone a while. Don't worry about it. Oh yeah, and the maps they do have of Headquarters, sometimes posted on the walls around the building, have a tendency to not reflect the latest changes. Unfortunately, the definition of "latest changes" means changes made in the last 12 years.

[sigepuofu]

Hey all. Again, for the current IAs on the board (sorry I'm so needy lately). My HR package (letter, etc.) still hasn't arrived, and the person I was told to contact in staffing couldn't give me a concrete time when it'll be here-she said she thought it might be here this week.

Here's my dilemma-I want to head out to DC on the 25th or 26th, even though my starting date is officially the 29th. I wanted to use the extra couple days to find a place to live and get acclimated to DC a bit. But, since my package isn't here yet, I'm concerned that if I book my flight myself in the next couple of days, I'll mess things up with HR and staffing, because I didn't go through them to set everything up. (i.e. I probably won't get reimbursed for the flight, etc., etc. the flight's not a huge concern, I'm willing to eat that if I have to.)

So, my question is, do yall think I should just go ahead and book my flight/hotel stuff on my own, or wait until Staffing gets around to sending my package? I don't want to wait that long if I can afford it-my EOD's supposed to be the 29th, and I intend to be there even if Staffing hasn't gotten my package to me. Any advice would be much appreciated.

thanks,
sigepuofu

P.S. Anyone know how they've been sending the official letters/packages lately? is it FedEx, or Priority Mail?

[BuMan]

If you have a PoC at Staffing, here's my suggestion - call them and ask them to have the package waiting for you at the front desk of the Hoover building. Make your plans to come out here to DC after you talk to them and confirm they'll do that, and then, on your first day, you can pick up the package and start looking. It would be helpful to have the confirmation letter when looking for housing, so you can show a landlord that you do, in fact, have a job waiting for you.

As far as I know, they've been sending them via FedEx.

[MTIrishgirl]

I received mine via FedEx. There was a mistake in my offer letter (I'm receiving a COLA instead of locality pay) so they amended the offer letter but mailed that regular mail. If you haven't received the actual letter yet, you could ask them to at least fax a copy to you. Good luck. I start at the end of June and there's still a lot to do between now and then.

[tdstolz]

Hello, everyone.

How do student loan repayment programs work for FBI/DOJ employees (e.g., S. 1800)? Thanks!

Yours,
Travis

[eff-bee-eye]

Hello, everyone.

How do student loan repayment programs work for FBI/DOJ employees (e.g., S. 1800)? Thanks!

Yours,
Travis

....

Yes, schools do like that real world experience for professors to have. But with that said, very few institutions hire faculty with only a bachelors degree. Some smaller colleges/universities and community colleges might do this, but you typically need your masters at a minimum, especially if you are trying to work full-time as a professor. I'm sure there are some adjunct-professors here and there with just a bachelors, but this is usually the exception and not the rule. If you want to make a career out of teaching higher ed, you pretty much need your masters to start, and then a lot go on to pursue a PhD on the side so they can further their teaching credentials and even head up their department, etc etc.

The FBI pays for your Masters degree, and will also BACK pay your undergrad/grad student loans (even if prior to your employment). You just have to justify how your masters degree relates to your current position and making you a better employee, and you owe them service time equal to your degree completion time. 2 year online masters program? = You owe the FBI 2 years of service after you complete that degree, or you pay back the $$. (about 50% get approved for this)

For back-paying loans, this is a recruitment/retention tool. You have to "sell yourself" on how the FBI would be losing such a valuable employee and the cost benefits of keeping you verses replacing you, etc. You then owe them 3 years after they finish paying off your loans, which they will pay up to 10,000 per year. (about 50% get approved)

[sigepuofu]

If you have a PoC at Staffing, here's my suggestion - call them and ask them to have the package waiting for you at the front desk of the Hoover building. Make your plans to come out here to DC after you talk to them and confirm they'll do that, and then, on your first day, you can pick up the package and start looking. It would be helpful to have the confirmation letter when looking for housing, so you can show a landlord that you do, in fact, have a job waiting for you.

As far as I know, they've been sending them via FedEx.

I've called the one contact I have at Staffing multiple times probably at least eight times in the past week-left messages every time, never got a return call-I got through to her once, and she said that she thought the letter would go out last week (i talked to her on Thurs. of last week) and that was about all I could get out of her-she couldn't (or wouldn't) answer any of my other questions, and I haven't been able to get a hold of her again. I

So, I'm at a loss about what to do-your suggestion sounds great BuMan (and MtIrishGirl), but I can't get a hold of the lady and ask her to do so-I don't know if she checks her voicemail and ignores it, or just hasn't gotten any of my messages. It seems like she's rarely at her desk.

It's frustrating, but I guess they're pretty busy in Staffing right now, so maybe it's just that they're dealing with so many new hires that's putting them behind. If the package isn't here in the next day or so, I guess I'll just book a flight to DC and hope for the best.

Thanks,
Sigepuofu

[tdstolz]

Dear Eff-bee-eye,

Thanks for the info. Has anyone succeeded (for want of a better word) at student loan repayment? I've hesitated to ask any of my HQ or FO contacts, simply because I don't want to make a bad impression, as if this is all I'm interested in. It isn't. I know the plan exists, however, and I want to know the ins and outs.

Bottom line: If I'm going to consolidate my loans, I need to do so by 1 July, but I don't want this to preclude me from the repayment plan.

Thanks,
Travis

[JulieAnn1270]

Hi all ~ This message was also posted on the "Poll" message list, sorry for the dupication, but this seems to be the real discussion. :) I've been reading all your posts, and guess I'm in a similar situation with the waiting and not knowing. I applied under the summer 2004 (July) post that was cancelled, however, I interviewed in January with the HRT here in Quantico (I live in the area) and was told in March that they selected me for employment, and we just had to get the background done (I already have an SCI clearance and work in Quantico as a contractor). We were hoping for a start date of April 18, and in early April I received a CO, but the pay was about $12,000 less than we had agreed on. The agent I was working with at HRT said she put in a request for a raise and the new bonus as well, and asked me to reapply under the new announcement in case it was denied, that way she said they would hire me under that announcement instead.

Needless to say, the hire date of 4/18 did not happen... last month they interviewed most of my contacts and just last Thursday I took the Poly/Prints/Pee test. I have no idea how much longer I have to wait, and don't even know if the pay/bonus issue was worked out, but I'm trying VERY HARD to be patient. I don't have an HR rep name to check in with, but have heard from various case managers in Richmond. Hopefully nothing will go wrong between now and the final offer! Just wanted to share my timeline with you and wish you all good luck!

[eff-bee-eye]

Dear Eff-bee-eye,

Thanks for the info. Has anyone succeeded (for want of a better word) at student loan repayment? I've hesitated to ask any of my HQ or FO contacts, simply because I don't want to make a bad impression, as if this is all I'm interested in. It isn't. I know the plan exists, however, and I want to know the ins and outs.

Bottom line: If I'm going to consolidate my loans, I need to do so by 1 July, but I don't want this to preclude me from the repayment plan.

Thanks,
Travis

I don't think consolidating your loans would affect whether or not you would get approved for reimbursement or not. You just have to provide proof from the lending institution.

Like I said, about 1/2 of those who applied last year got approved for payoff of their existing loans. I'm not sure if that will be the same % this year, but just TODAY we received an e-mail advising that now ALL positions in the FBI are eligible for this payoff. (before this you were only eligible if you were in a "critical" position like SA, IA, SSG, etc)

So there must be more $$ this year in the budget for this program. :D

[OrangeAlum2003]

Just curious if anyone else has recently received a call from their local FO to come in for an interview? I live in the Bay Area, so I imagine the SF office would be the one to call if I got the interview. Anyone got a call from SF?

I was one of those unfortunates who had their status downgraded from "referred to selecting official" back to "application received" last week. So my gut tells me that I shouldn't get my hopes up regarding an interview, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

[tdstolz]

Dear Eff-bee-eye,

Thanks! Perhaps the e-mail you received reflects the OIG's recent audit (i.e., The FBI's Efforts to Hire, Train, and Retain IAs)? I've not read the whole thing yet. Has anyone?

Yours,
Travis

[dublin]

i read the report. It's not as bad as the intimidating-194 pages look at first glance. Actually, it was very interesting, especially regarding the criticism that current IAs have with their lot as IA's.

It encourages me that this report is out and hopefully some changes can be made.

anyone who is gearing up to go work as an IA should check it out. It is very well organized so one may skip portions that one doesn't find interesting.

dublin

[Balapai]

I too was listed as "referred to selecting official" for quite a while. I got a call unexpectedly last week to come in for an interview for the following Monday. When I checked my status online, I had been downgraded to "application received"- so I showed up at the interview this Monday with low expectations. However, after the interview I received a CO and was asked to show up for a poly this wednesday... So for all of you who were also downgraded- I guess it is not necessarily a bad thing?

On another note, How long do background investigations generally take? I have travelled overseas a lot and was a Peace Corps Volunteer for two years... does this mean I am in for a long wait?

[OrangeAlum2003]

I too was listed as "referred to selecting official" for quite a while. I got a call unexpectedly last week to come in for an interview for the following Monday. When I checked my status online, I had been downgraded to "application received"- so I showed up at the interview this Monday with low expectations. However, after the interview I received a CO and was asked to show up for a poly this wednesday... So for all of you who were also downgraded- I guess it is not necessarily a bad thing?

On another note, How long do background investigations generally take? I have travelled overseas a lot and was a Peace Corps Volunteer for two years... does this mean I am in for a long wait?

Balapai, at which FO did you interview if you don't mind telling?

[sigepuofu]

Hey all, just thought I'd check in with everyone. My packet's still not here yet, and I still can't get a hold of anyone in Staffing or HR. I called FedEx, and they don't have a record of anything that is to be shipped to my address currently (therefore, the package wasn't shipped last week as I was told it would be). So, I think I'm just going to keep my original travel plans and fly out Thurs. I'll keep calling my contacts (especially the HR rep in the Directorate of Intelligence) so I can find out how to report for duty on my EOD. (couldn't get a hold of her today). I don't really blame Staffing, I know they must be slammed right now. Not much I can do about it anyway.

Anyway, that's my plan, any opinions or cautions you all have about it would be great. I just feel that even though I don't have my packet yet, I can't afford to wait-I told the Bureau I'd be ready to start on a certain date, and I intend to, whether or not I have my stuff. Oh well, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger, right? :)

[Clem]

I received an invitation today to interview in my local field office within the next week. I was told it would be a panel interview with three people. I was also told to bring a completed "application" which I am assuming is the SF86, although I was told I would receive a letter in the next couple of days with directions to the office and instructions regarding the application.

I am excited and full of questions. I have been furiously reading back through these IA threads trying to find answers. Could someone help me with answers to these questions?


When applicants go to these types of interviews, are they ever given any idea if they "passed"?
The instructions to the SF86 say that the form is to be completed after you have a conditional offer. Does this mean I might receive one?
When they do a BI do they contact your employer before they know that you have successfully met all of the other requirements for the position? I have a good job now, I'd hate to alienate my employer alienated by having them know I was interested in a job with the FBI and then not even get an offer from the FBI. That would be a really crappy situation.

[diablo3305]

When applicants go to these types of interviews, are they ever given any idea if they "passed"?
The instructions to the SF86 say that the form is to be completed after you have a conditional offer. Does this mean I might receive one?
When they do a BI do they contact your employer before they know that you have successfully met all of the other requirements for the position? I have a good job now, I'd hate to alienate my employer alienated by having them know I was interested in a job with the FBI and then not even get an offer from the FBI. That would be a really crappy situation.



I only had a meet and greet, so I can't answer the first one. I knew I was reccomended when I got my CO.

As far as your current employer, I was told by one of the guys doing my BI, that it is standard policy to contact you for permission to speak to your current employer. I talked to me and verified my current employment info. This all occured before the end of the process, I am still waiting on the final decision, so they will talk to your employer before you know if you have the job. Its tough, but I don't like my job so I don't really care all that much.

[Clem]

Thanks diablo. I don't mind if they contact my employer if it is just about the last thing in the process. I just don't want them to do it too early, in case something goes wrong along the way and so that I don't have to work for months and months for a boss who is upset with me.

I hope you hear something soon. :)

[BuMan]

I received an invitation today to interview in my local field office within the next week. I was told it would be a panel interview with three people. I was also told to bring a completed "application" which I am assuming is the SF86, although I was told I would receive a letter in the next couple of days with directions to the office and instructions regarding the application.

I am excited and full of questions. I have been furiously reading back through these IA threads trying to find answers. Could someone help me with answers to these questions?


When applicants go to these types of interviews, are they ever given any idea if they "passed"?
The instructions to the SF86 say that the form is to be completed after you have a conditional offer. Does this mean I might receive one?
When they do a BI do they contact your employer before they know that you have successfully met all of the other requirements for the position? I have a good job now, I'd hate to alienate my employer alienated by having them know I was interested in a job with the FBI and then not even get an offer from the FBI. That would be a really crappy situation.



Generally, these are qualification verification interviews. You provided information on your initial application indicating various skills and abilities. The purpose of the interviews should be to talk with you to verify your skills and abilities to give the assignment board a better idea of where you would be the best fit.

It's probably not a formal conditional offer of employment, but if you show up without the SF-86 filled out, you probably won't be processed any further.

Employer question discussed elsewhere...the BI may wait to talk to the employer or may not. Sometimes, those requests don't make it all the way down the line to the BI, especially when the investigation is being conducted on an expedited basis. Best bet, have a talk with your boss, explain you found a job that interests you but the process is a long way from over and there's no telling when it will wrap up or how it will turn out for you. Reiterate for him that you're there 100% for your current job regardless of what might happen in the future. If you're concerned about this, ask yourself, would your boss have any real problem laying you off if the company hit a fiscal crisis?

[Clem]

Thanks buman. (With the number of questions that you patiently answer here, I sure hope that the FBI's HR department is paying you some sort of commission or something. :D)

Fortunately I have already completed most of the SF86 because I read here that it's a good thing to have ready, just in case you get a call. Given the amount of time that it can take to complete the form, that's proven to be good advice.

[sigepuofu]

I told my employer up front that he was going to be visited by an FBI agent as part of my BI, and he was in favor of it, and more than willing to help. But, it was also a "college" job, not a professional job, and he knew I'd be leaving when I finished school. I think if you follow BuMan's advice, you'll be fine (he hasn't steered anybody wrong yet).

As for whether or not you're going to get a CO, I couldn't tell you for sure-the Bureau has changed the process slightly from when I was going through, but I did have to fill out the FD-140 form (replaced by the SF-86 recently) and send it in before I was given a conditional offer. I interviewed after my CO, not before. It's a possibility, but there's a lot of other factors involved. I don't know if interviewees are given a "passing" indication or not-I wasn't given one when I left my interview, I found out that I'd been selected a couple of weeks later by a phone call from DC. I would just practice your basic interview skills, and think of specific situations that occured in school or in your present job where you had to work as part of a team, or write reports, etc..etc..and showed good results. Showing that you can produce good results is a key issue, in my opinion.

Good luck

[dublin]

when i was interviewing in DC for the IA position the week of April 12th, there was a woman there that did not tell her boss whe was interviewing that day. She happened to work down the street from the Crystal City hotel we were interviewing in.

She passed her interview and was asked to come back the next morning for the PSI and Poly. She went straight to work and told her boss why she wasn't at work that day, and needed tomorrow off as well...She was fired. She was pretty upset during the following morning before the poly. Everyone felt bad for her.

I guess the moral of the story is...Be up front about your plans with your employer, however uncomfortable it may be. You don't want to upset your current employer with a ruse regarding your absence from work, then when you pass the interview, have to tell them that your BI is underway, and they are goint to speak with them fairly quickly...things get sticky...you get the idea. Plus, if you need to take your poly, your mind can be cleared of any guilt regarding missing work or not being completely forthcoming with your current boss.

Great luck with everything. :p

[JulieAnn1270]

I'm curious, I read the OIG report on the FBI's capability to hire, train, and retain IAs, and noticed that they attributed a certain number of discontinued background checks to 2nd and even 3rd polygraph exams. Has anyone been asked to retake a poly? Does everybody get asked to do this or is it only in certain 'questionable' cases? Also, I was curious as to the average amount of time it takes after the initial P/P/P tests before a final offer is made (if there is such a thing as an average amount of time)...

One more thing I am interested in, although it may be more predictive in nature, is the treatment and morale of IAs in field offices, as compared to those in the DC metro. I have heard from other FBI employees that IAs in the field are treated much more like administrative support personnel and are unhappy with the level of respect they receive. I wonder if this will improve with the new intelligence initiatives the FBI is working on as a result of the OIG report, or if it will largely remain the same. Any insight as to what things are like outside of DC?

[OrangeAlum2003]

I'm curious, I read the OIG report on the FBI's capability to hire, train, and retain IAs, and noticed that they attributed a certain number of discontinued background checks to 2nd and even 3rd polygraph exams. Has anyone been asked to retake a poly? Does everybody get asked to do this or is it only in certain 'questionable' cases? Also, I was curious as to the average amount of time it takes after the initial P/P/P tests before a final offer is made (if there is such a thing as an average amount of time)...

One more thing I am interested in, although it may be more predictive in nature, is the treatment and morale of IAs in field offices, as compared to those in the DC metro. I have heard from other FBI employees that IAs in the field are treated much more like administrative support personnel and are unhappy with the level of respect they receive. I wonder if this will improve with the new intelligence initiatives the FBI is working on as a result of the OIG report, or if it will largely remain the same. Any insight as to what things are like outside of DC?

I cannot speak from experience, but what you've noted seems to contradict the information that's in the OIG report. Their analysis showed that HQ IA's were much more likely to be unhappy with their role than FO IA's. I would imagine that those IA's who are more involved in administration than production would tend to be less satisfied. If given the opportunity, the OIG report would in no way discourage me to accept the offer. I do think, however, it's a good foundation upon which to have a healthy dialogue.

[orangeblossom77]

I cannot speak from experience, but what you've noted seems to contradict the information that's in the OIG report. Their analysis showed that HQ IA's were much more likely to be unhappy with their role than FO IA's. I would imagine that those IA's who are more involved in administration than production would tend to be less satisfied. If given the opportunity, the OIG report would in no way discourage me to accept the offer. I do think, however, it's a good foundation upon which to have a healthy dialogue.

As an IA at HQ who was recently hired (last year), I would have to agree. HQ is much more administrative than I thought it would be, at least in my unit (an operations unit). That said, I have several friends who work in the "all-source" role, and it seems much more analytical in nature. I have heard that IAs in the field get more involved in the actual investigative work. I wish they would develop a transfer/rotation/TDY policy for IAs, so we could experience all the different roles and the difference between HQ/FOs. I hope that is in the works!

Good luck to everyone going through the hiring process! :)

[BuMan]

So far, this week, the FBI has done hundreds of interviews for the IA position in the various FOs and dozens of interviews in the DC area. The process is proceeding, so be patient.

[BuMan]

I'm curious, I read the OIG report on the FBI's capability to hire, train, and retain IAs, and noticed that they attributed a certain number of discontinued background checks to 2nd and even 3rd polygraph exams. Has anyone been asked to retake a poly? Does everybody get asked to do this or is it only in certain 'questionable' cases? Also, I was curious as to the average amount of time it takes after the initial P/P/P tests before a final offer is made (if there is such a thing as an average amount of time)...

One more thing I am interested in, although it may be more predictive in nature, is the treatment and morale of IAs in field offices, as compared to those in the DC metro. I have heard from other FBI employees that IAs in the field are treated much more like administrative support personnel and are unhappy with the level of respect they receive. I wonder if this will improve with the new intelligence initiatives the FBI is working on as a result of the OIG report, or if it will largely remain the same. Any insight as to what things are like outside of DC?

On the Poly question - typically, someone would be asked back for a second poly if there was something borderline in the poly results but not clearly disqualifying. If something came out during the poly that was disqualifying, then there wouldn't be a second interview. If you get a "no thanks" letter after your poly, you might be given a second chance upon appeal, but that's optional not a guarantee.

WRT to the field office question - there is work underway to try and change things with regard to the way the IAs are being handled in the field office. It's a slow process to create change in an organization as entrenched as the FBI, but they are determined to make the change. Long term, the IA program will be a separate personnel classification within the FBI, alongside the agents, general support and another category of positions. Once the testing prior to hiring goes into place, the report to QT for initial processing and training, etc. it should help shift the attitudes. Some of the problems reported by IAs in the field in the OIG report derived from new employees who felt they were being abused by being asked to share in the general duties around the office. It's one thing if an employee or class of employees is singled out to perform routine tasks like desk duty, or cleaning, due to the fact that there is insufficient support staff to handle those tasks on a dedicated basis. It's another thing if there's a rotational policy that everyone takes turns at supporting the operations. The lack of support staff for some of those routine tasks is being addressed, as everyone from the top on down have recognized the problem.

WRT the average time to get through the process, it varies depending on the background. Hard to say for sure, but figure four months is the inside and twelve months should be the outside. The PPP test is the first stage of the background investigation process...

[Balapai]

I had an IA interview on Monday, and during the interview I was asked which position I would prefer- All Source, Operations Specialist or Reports Officer. Can anyone give me an idea of the difference between these positions, promotion potential with each, job duties, pros and cons, possible locations for each(i.e. is one more likely to be in HQ? I have a PhD in sociology and a particular focus on transnationalism and international issues, but I have very little formal experience in the intel industry. Any information would be greatly appreciated!

I had my poly today, and I believe that I passed though we were all told that the info had to go through a quality control check. Now I guess I just wait for the BI!

[electra1978]

Just curious if anyone else has recently received a call from their local FO to come in for an interview? I live in the Bay Area, so I imagine the SF office would be the one to call if I got the interview. Anyone got a call from SF?

I was one of those unfortunates who had their status downgraded from "referred to selecting official" back to "application received" last week. So my gut tells me that I shouldn't get my hopes up regarding an interview, but I wouldn't mind being proven wrong.

Hey everyone! I can't believe there's an entire forum on this topic. I have been looking for answers for a long time now and am happy to find them here.

I also applied for an IA position, and was listed for a long time as "referred to selecting official." Last week, it was changed to "application received." I thought the worst, but said I'd call FBI Staffing in HQ just to clarify and guess what? After leaving a couple messages and not hearing back, I finally got someone on the phone who told me the change just means that they have not received the file back from the selecting official, and that if you were not selected, it would state that in the status section.

Don't lose hope people...

[JulieAnn1270]

Thanks for the insights - I had heard the opinions about IAs in the field from current Bureau employees as opposed to the OIG report, but either way I am definitely taking the job as soon as it is offered. I'm really surprised at the amount of time the background is going to take. The agent I interviewed with told me in March that I could start within the next month or two, but now everyone is saying I have 4-12 months to go. That was definitely not expected. I'll do the wait, but what a frustrating process! It's great to have this message board to see what others are experiencing and to read the advice from BuMan. It's difficult to not have an actual contact that can tell me what's going on with my application.

[OrangeAlum2003]

Hey everyone! I can't believe there's an entire forum on this topic. I have been looking for answers for a long time now and am happy to find them here.

I also applied for an IA position, and was listed for a long time as "referred to selecting official." Last week, it was changed to "application received." I thought the worst, but said I'd call FBI Staffing in HQ just to clarify and guess what? After leaving a couple messages and not hearing back, I finally got someone on the phone who told me the change just means that they have not received the file back from the selecting official, and that if you were not selected, it would state that in the status section.

Don't lose hope people...

Well, I sure hope the information you got was accurate because I am in the same boat and losing hope by the day, especially since BuMan has indicated the interviews in FO's are occuring at a frantic pace. To me, it doesn't make a lot of sense to change the status on the website back to "application received" from "referred to selecting official" because it really doesn't tell the applicant anything or explain your progress at all. Isn't that what the purpose of being able to check your status online is?

In any event, I hope it works out. Regardless, I'm starting a new job on Tuesday that pays much more than an entry IA position, but I DOUBT will be half as interesting. I think the nature of the work in the Bureau as an IA has the potential to be extremely compelling and rewarding. I hope I get my chance to serve. :p

[OrangeAlum2003]

Hey everyone! I can't believe there's an entire forum on this topic. I have been looking for answers for a long time now and am happy to find them here.

I also applied for an IA position, and was listed for a long time as "referred to selecting official." Last week, it was changed to "application received." I thought the worst, but said I'd call FBI Staffing in HQ just to clarify and guess what? After leaving a couple messages and not hearing back, I finally got someone on the phone who told me the change just means that they have not received the file back from the selecting official, and that if you were not selected, it would state that in the status section.

Don't lose hope people...

Did you apply to the Washington Field Office or another FO?

[electra1978]

Hi. Actually, the announcement doesn't give you an option to choose whether to work at HQ or a FO. It just says they reserve the right to send you whereever they see fit. I'm in Boston, and although I would love to stay here, would definitely move whereever they wanted me to if I was offered a job.

When did you apply? Have you heard back from anyone yet? The woman I spoke to said I should hear something in the next couple weeks...

[electra1978]

So far, this week, the FBI has done hundreds of interviews for the IA position in the various FOs and dozens of interviews in the DC area. The process is proceeding, so be patient.

I applied to FO-2005-0022 and it stated:

"THE SELECTEE MUST BE WILLING TO ACCEPT ANY OFFICE OF ASSIGNMENT.

The selectee may be subject to transfer to other geographic
locations worldwide, consistent with the needs of the FBI, and will
be required to sign a mobility agreement accepting such relocation."

I didn't have the option to choose what office I wanted to work in, so if I'm to expect a call for an interview, would it be from HQ or the Boston office where I live?

[OrangeAlum2003]

I applied to FO-2005-0022 and it stated:

"THE SELECTEE MUST BE WILLING TO ACCEPT ANY OFFICE OF ASSIGNMENT.

The selectee may be subject to transfer to other geographic
locations worldwide, consistent with the needs of the FBI, and will
be required to sign a mobility agreement accepting such relocation."

I didn't have the option to choose what office I wanted to work in, so if I'm to expect a call for an interview, would it be from HQ or the Boston office where I live?

Yeah, I know about the mobility requirement. I just thought perhaps that you were from the DC area, because a lot of the people on this board who have gotten interviews were from the DC area or were flown in for previous hiring blitzes. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I applied and was "referred to selecting official," but now my status has gone back to "application received." I called up the SF FO yesterday and left a message but have yet to hear back from them. I applied to vacancy FO-0022 back in March, and was "referred to selecting official" in April. My status changed back about two weeks ago. Other than that, I have heard nothing, though others on this board have been called for interviews recently. Best of luck to you. I'm sure you'll grow to appreciate this message board as much as I have (a lot of good info here). I'll be sure to post any developments that come my way.

[electra1978]

Yeah, I know about the mobility requirement. I just thought perhaps that you were from the DC area, because a lot of the people on this board who have gotten interviews were from the DC area or were flown in for previous hiring blitzes. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I applied and was "referred to selecting official," but now my status has gone back to "application received." I called up the SF FO yesterday and left a message but have yet to hear back from them. I applied to vacancy FO-0022 back in March, and was "referred to selecting official" in April. My status changed back about two weeks ago. Other than that, I have heard nothing, though others on this board have been called for interviews recently. Best of luck to you. I'm sure you'll grow to appreciate this message board as much as I have (a lot of good info here). I'll be sure to post any developments that come my way.

Hey. So I called the staffing person at the Boston FO and she said she had no idea what the "downgrade" meant if anything. She also said decisions are made from HQ and not individual FO as to who should get the call. She added that interview calls started recently and that there are still a lot more who will be called so it might not be completely hopeless... She told me to call HQ back in a couple weeks which I am planning to do...

About DC, I am wondering if I'm at a disadvantage because I'm not in DC... I just graduated with my masters, am single, under 30, with no student loans, willing to move anywhere in the world even if I have to pay my way, and skills and work/language experience in critical areas so I feel that should count for something, don't you think??

[OrangeAlum2003]

Hey. So I called the staffing person at the Boston FO and she said she had no idea what the "downgrade" meant if anything. She also said decisions are made from HQ and not individual FO as to who should get the call. She added that interview calls started recently and that there are still a lot more who will be called so it might not be completely hopeless... She told me to call HQ back in a couple weeks which I am planning to do...

About DC, I am wondering if I'm at a disadvantage because I'm not in DC... I just graduated with my masters, am single, under 30, with no student loans, willing to move anywhere in the world even if I have to pay my way, and skills and work/language experience in critical areas so I feel that should count for something, don't you think??

Thanks for the update. It's encouraging to think that the "downgrade" may be benign. Let's hope.

Well, you and I are in a seemingly similar situation. I too, though not single, am in my late 20's with a Master's in International Relations with an emphasis on foreign policy and South Asia (go figure). It seems like if not a majority, many of the applicants have advanced degress, some even with PhD's. So I really don't have any idea how I rank with other candidates. Though I've had government experience in the past, my current job is pretty much unrelated to the intelligence world altogether, though many of the soft skills are transferable. So, only time will tell. I think in a normal world, I would stand a good chance at an interview, but given the enormous size of the applicant pool for these positions, normal can probably be thrown out the window.

[OrangeAlum2003]

Hey. So I called the staffing person at the Boston FO and she said she had no idea what the "downgrade" meant if anything. She also said decisions are made from HQ and not individual FO as to who should get the call. She added that interview calls started recently and that there are still a lot more who will be called so it might not be completely hopeless... She told me to call HQ back in a couple weeks which I am planning to do...

About DC, I am wondering if I'm at a disadvantage because I'm not in DC... I just graduated with my masters, am single, under 30, with no student loans, willing to move anywhere in the world even if I have to pay my way, and skills and work/language experience in critical areas so I feel that should count for something, don't you think??

Can you PM me the phone # you called at HQ?

[electra1978]

Thanks for the update. It's encouraging to think that the "downgrade" may be benign. Let's hope.

Well, you and I are in a seemingly similar situation. I too, though not single, am in my late 20's with a Master's in International Relations with an emphasis on foreign policy and South Asia (go figure). It seems like if not a majority, many of the applicants have advanced degress, some even with PhD's. So I really don't have any idea how I rank with other candidates. Though I've had government experience in the past, my current job is pretty much unrelated to the intelligence world altogether, though many of the soft skills are transferable. So, only time will tell. I think in a normal world, I would stand a good chance at an interview, but given the enormous size of the applicant pool for these positions, normal can probably be thrown out the window.

We do have similar qualifications. In my case, my experience/expertise is in Middle Eastern politics, religious conflicts, Islamic studies, and I speak Arabic, and did some development work for USAID in Lebanon. This is my first time going through the federal recruitment process, and the hardest part is not having a contact person to get concrete answers to my questions... I am keeping the faith and being patient so hopefully things will work out.

I have a question for everyone actually. While you were waiting to get the call, etc. were you working fulltime? Contract? Unemployed?

I graduated last week with my masters, and now have a contract job until September. I wanted to give myself enough timne to hear back without tying myself down if something does come through. Anyone in the same boat?

[Ellington]

Hell-o,

I am completing the SF-86 form, and I have 3 questions.

Item 9 wants me to state where I have lived during the past 7 years. I have done internships during the summer (about 30 days), and have stayed in housing provided by these internships. Must these addresses be included in the questionnaire, even though it wasn’t my permanent address?

Item 11 wants me to state my employment activities for the past 7 years. Must I include all times of unemployment, even if it is evident that these were part-time jobs during the school year and internships during the summer?

Item 29- What does Public Record of Civil Court Action mean?

Thank you.

[diablo3305]

Hell-o,

I am completing the SF-86 form, and I have 3 questions.

Item 9 wants me to state where I have lived during the past 7 years. I have done internships during the summer (about 30 days), and have stayed in housing provided by these internships. Must these addresses be included in the questionnaire, even though it wasn’t my permanent address?

Item 11 wants me to state my employment activities for the past 7 years. Must I include all times of unemployment, even if it is evident that these were part-time jobs during the school year and internships during the summer?

Item 29- What does Public Record of Civil Court Action mean?

Thank you.

That form is loads of fun.

For Item 9, yes every address.

Item 11, every employment, including unemployment times. Every period of time must be accounted for.

Item 29, have you ever been to court for a civil action? I think you would probably know if you have.


I have filled out both that and the FD-140, and they always tell you to finish it as completely as possible. Fill in everything you can remember, it only helps you in the long run. I too have lived in a few locations for school and worked in several jobs, so its a pain, but you have to do it. You can always contact the HR rep or person who sent you the forms

[sigepuofu]

Diablo is correct, filling out as much as possible will only make it easier for the Bureau to complete your background investigation. Trust me, the easier you can make things for your investigator, the easier the entire hiring process will go for you.

Hope everything goes well for you. I think the job will be worth it if you survive the hiring process.

By the way, I'm trying to find a place here in DC. I've found what sound like great places in Bethesda. Can anyone tell me what Bethesda's like? I'm looking for something close to a Metro stop, a place that's clean, and above all, is in a safe area.

[achefswife]

Hey I've got some exciting news. I just got a call from my local FO. Yes she just called about 15 minutes ago and its a holiday weekend. My interview is scheduled for June 13th. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[diablo3305]

wow, they called you on a saturday. Thats impressive. Good luck with your interview :)

[MTIrishgirl]

Diablo is correct, filling out as much as possible will only make it easier for the Bureau to complete your background investigation. Trust me, the easier you can make things for your investigator, the easier the entire hiring process will go for you.

Hope everything goes well for you. I think the job will be worth it if you survive the hiring process.

By the way, I'm trying to find a place here in DC. I've found what sound like great places in Bethesda. Can anyone tell me what Bethesda's like? I'm looking for something close to a Metro stop, a place that's clean, and above all, is in a safe area.

I currently work in Bethesda (well, at least until Friday). It's a nice area. A lot of shops, places to eat. There are several metro stops in the Bethesda area (White Flint, Grosvenor, Navy Med, Bethesda, Friendship Heights). Not sure where you're looking at in the Bethesda area but for the most part, it's relatively safe wherever you would go. Rental prices are definately higher than if you lived further out in Montgomery County, but of course, you'll be closer to work and if you use metro, won't have to worry about the costs associated with driving and parking. PM me if you have any further questions about the area. By the by, are you getting as anxious/excited/nervous as I am?

[Ellington]

Thank you for your responses. Filling out these forms requires so much memory. But, my prayer is to be considered for this position.

When I asked someone what does Public Record of Civil Actions meant, they told me that it means, "If I sued someone, or if someone sued me."

But, I guess I am trying to figure out if Public Record of Civil Actions also means (these are just examples), divorce proceedings, child support, child custody, civil restraining orders, etc?

[BuMan]

Thank you for your responses. Filling out these forms requires so much memory. But, my prayer is to be considered for this position.

When I asked someone what does Public Record of Civil Actions meant, they told me that it means, "If I sued someone, or if someone sued me."

But, I guess I am trying to figure out if Public Record of Civil Actions also means (these are just examples), divorce proceedings, child support, child custody, civil restraining orders, etc?

Those would be civil actions (vice criminal actions), and therefore, should be reported. All of those are things which could come to bear on your suitability for a position of public trust - for example, reasons why you got divorced, whether you were current in your child support payments, whether you were denied custody of your children or violated the terms of a custody agreement, and, particularly, whether you were subject to a restraining order. If you have paid a lawyer for something that is filed in court, you should assume that's covered by this subject.

[electra1978]

Hi. I know a lot of people are still in limbo with the "aaplication received" status, but will everyone eventually get a definitive answer one way or the other about the IA position?

[achefswife]

Hi. I know a lot of people are still in limbo with the "aaplication received" status, but will everyone eventually get a definitive answer one way or the other about the IA position?

That is a very interesting question. I've been called for an interview without a status change at all. I'm not sure what type of organization tactics are being used, but they are very confusing if you asked me. Just hang in there and don't give up hope.

[achefswife]

Can anyone tell me where I can read a copy of the recent report on analyst retention... blah, blah, blah.

[tdstolz]

Dear Achefswife,

Go to: http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/FBI/a0520/final.pdf

I hope this is helpful.

Yours,
Travis

[diablo3305]

That is a very interesting question. I've been called for an interview without a status change at all. I'm not sure what type of organization tactics are being used, but they are very confusing if you asked me. Just hang in there and don't give up hope.


I don't think there are any organizational tactics being used. I think its just the sheer number of applicants limiting the kind of information they can provide on that site. I wouldn't put much into what it says on there. I was given a CO and am well into the BI and my status has not changed, except for one time when it changed to "not among highest qualified", then changed back the next day.

I don't think its feasible for them to change everyones status. Besides, once your application moves on, there probably isn't appropriate resources or a process for evaluating its status and providing feedback. Just keep living, you will hear something eventually :)

[tdstolz]

Hello, everyone.

I have a quick question in the light of the recent discussion regarding section 29 on the SF-86 ("Public Record Civil Courts Actions"). About eight years ago, I was in a minor auto accident--barely a fender bender. My mistake was not calling the police. (I was young and it was my first accident.) I had the right of way at the interesection where the accident occurred, no question.

Not long after the accident, though, the other driver alleged that the accident was my fault. (Always call the police after even the smallest accident!) I rang my insurance agent and he said not to worry, she is most likely uninsured and using this as a last ditch attempt to get someone else to pay. I quite honestly do not recall all the details, but I do remember going to a small claims court or some such place. She did not even show up (as my insurance agent had predicted). And that was it. I had not even thought of this until I read the recent discussions.

My question: Was this a "public record civil court action"? I answered "no" to the question on the SF-86--it never occurred to me to answer otherwise. Should I contact someone and relay this incident? Nothing happened--it was as uneventful as I have explained it and the accident was not my fault--but I do not want to be misunderstood by the investigators as lacking candor or being dishonest, as if I am hiding something.

Thanks,
Travis

[a21ozcoldcup]

Greetings folks. So I applied to an IA job a few months ago and honestly I forgot I did it (I've been applying to any intel job I can.. which has been quite a few). So last week I get a call asking me to come to an interview, two days later in Philly.

To cut to the point, I went to the interview, answered the questions; I think I held my ground well. BUT there is one problem that does give me concern. I have no college degree. I have one semester of school done. I DO have actual intel experience however. I am an intel analyst (four years now) with the Army and have been overseas.

So to you who know more, what do you think the odds are for me getting my foot in the door? Whether its today or a few years down the road, I plan to get in to the FBI, but it would be great to get in at the ripe young age of 21.

Needless to say I find out between the 3rd and 10th of June if they want me to come back for a poly and I'll have my answer.


"Always out front."

[electra1978]

I don't think there are any organizational tactics being used. I think its just the sheer number of applicants limiting the kind of information they can provide on that site. I wouldn't put much into what it says on there. I was given a CO and am well into the BI and my status has not changed, except for one time when it changed to "not among highest qualified", then changed back the next day.

I don't think its feasible for them to change everyones status. Besides, once your application moves on, there probably isn't appropriate resources or a process for evaluating its status and providing feedback. Just keep living, you will hear something eventually :)

Yeah, it does make sense that it's not feasible for them to update EVERY person's status regularly. I've decided to continue applying for other jobs assuming the worst, but still hoping for the best even though it hasn't even been 2 months yet.

One thing that I must say is frustrating is how most FBI positions are closed off to people who don't live in that state. I noticed that Intelligence Assistant positions in DC were posted online, but I'm not eligible to apply since I'm in Boston.

Anyone know why that is? I would be more than willing to pay all of my own relocation expenses....

[Ellington]

Hell-o Everyone,

Thank you for your suggestions in filling out the SF-86.

Last week Thursday, I received a call from the FBI in response to the Vacancy announcement in March, and was asked to come in for an interview today. I received the letter via Fed-Ex on Friday. I was shocked because the status on that application states, “Application received,” whereas, the application I submitted in February for the position at Headquarters is in the “Referred to selecting official” purgatory.

I interviewed for the Intelligence Analyst position today. And I handed in my documents.

I don’t how my interview went, but I can’t conclude that I nailed it. All I can say is that I gave the interviewers my best, considering I didn’t know what types of questions were to be asked. But, I realize that the ultimate decision is up to Headquarters to decide whether or not I am fit for this position.

From what the interview panel told me, only Headquarters and 17 Field offices are hiring Intelligence Analysts. However, they didn't know what Field offices were hiring, but the Field office I interviewed at, Tampa, wasn't hiring (there are 17 Intelligence Analysts in that Field office).

I was informed that my documents will be sent to Headquarters this week, and Headquarters will make the decision to whether or not I will receive a Conditional Offer. If I am chosen, then the Field office will keep in touch.

I will just be waiting patiently.

[electra1978]

Hell-o Everyone,

Thank you for your suggestions in filling out the SF-86.

Last week Thursday, I received a call from the FBI in response to the Vacancy announcement in March, and was asked to come in for an interview today. I received the letter via Fed-Ex on Friday. I was shocked because the status on that application states, “Application received,” whereas, the application I submitted in February for the position at Headquarters is in the “Referred to selecting official” purgatory.

I interviewed for the Intelligence Analyst position today. And I handed in my documents.

I don’t how my interview went, but I can’t conclude that I nailed it. All I can say is that I gave the interviewers my best, considering I didn’t know what types of questions were to be asked. But, I realize that the ultimate decision is up to Headquarters to decide whether or not I am fit for this position.

From what the interview panel told me, only Headquarters and 17 Field offices are hiring Intelligence Analysts. However, they didn't know what Field offices were hiring, but the Field office I interviewed at, Tampa, wasn't hiring (there are 17 Intelligence Analysts in that Field office).

I was informed that my documents will be sent to Headquarters this week, and Headquarters will make the decision to whether or not I will receive a Conditional Offer. If I am chosen, then the Field office will keep in touch.

I will just be waiting patiently.

Hi. Thanks so much for posting the info. It's very helpful to have detailed information on the ins and outs of the whole process.

So, just to clarify, the interview you were called for was regarding the application that had a status of "application received"??

I wish I knew what 17 field offices were hiring.....

[Ellington]

Hell-o Electra1978,

Yes, the position I was interviewed for was for the FO-2005-0022 announcement, submitted in March, and I confirmed it with the representative with the FBI. The status of that application: Application Received.

I was not interviewed (as of yet) for the HQ-2005-0008 announcement, submitted in February. But I assume that since there was a "blitz" in March/April for interviews for this announcement, I probably won't be called in for an interview. The status of that application: Referred to Selecting Official.

I wish I too knew what 17 out of 56 Field offices were hiring. I was hoping nearby Tampa, but that's okay.

[achefswife]

Dear BuMan,

This question may have been answered earlier, forgive me if it has. I've heard people speak about getting job offers, and reimbursement for travel, and flight information sent via fed-ex, but I have yet to hear/see anyone say whether or not the "Bonus" listed in the vacancy announcement was given to them. Don't want anyone to think that I'm only concerned about the bonus (it would make the wait better) but I just wanted to know if sign-on bonuses were still in the budget.


Thanks.

[atlantapeaches]

Buman...your posts have been so very helpful. I am waiting on an answer as well from the Staffing unit. I interviewed on last week and have been told that I will hear something in about two weeks. What is the deal on internal employees? Would they be subject to the same move as external if offered a position? The internal and external has got me confused.

[BuMan]

RE: Bonuses

Last I heard, bonuses were still being offered to candidates for postings which included the bonus statement. It should be offered when reporting for duty and handled in the initial in-processing phase.

RE: Internal Employees and Transfers

As far as I know, if they are applying for one of the non-specific internal postings, they would only be offered one of the available field offices. It all comes down to available Funded Staffing Levels (FSLs). If an office is at it's FSL, it can't take a new IA without giving up another FSL slot. Basically, there has to be a vacancy in the office to allow for the hiring and transfers. There may be more positions becoming available in FY06, but for now, the only positions specifically posted are the Supervisory positions which require competition, even if filled internally. If a field office which only has a Supervisory IA position open fills it with an internal candidate (internal to that field office), then a standard IA position would become available and could be filled through the current hiring process. That's going to have to wait until the process has run its course with regard to the selection of the Supervisory IA position.

Re: Military Experience but no College Degree

I believe that if you examine the older postings for IAs, you'll find that they allow for personnel with military intelligence experience (in one of several specified career fields) without a college degree. Even the Supervisory IA positions indicate that at least one year experience (as listed on the DD-214) qualifies for an 0132 position. As EAD Baginski has stated in the past, she came from an organization (NSA) which had a lot of analysts and technicians without college degrees but who had a great deal of knowledge and experience in their field. A college degree is good for learning how to think, write, and research, but the DI also recognizes that real world experience is important, too.

RE: Locality Requirements in the Posting

A lot of that is to keep the relocation expenses in check. In the DC area, there have been strong responses to each of the postings for positions. The Intelligence Clerk/Aid position, in particular, are lower graded positions where it doesn't always make a lot of sense to pay $10K to move someone for a very much entry-level job. Sorry, but those decisions are made at higher levels than mine.

Re: Available Field Offices

Sorry, I'm out of the office for a while on vacation, so I don't know what the available offices are.

Re: Status Changes

I've talked to the people responsible for hiring within the DI (but not the Administrative Services Division, who does the processing). They are as frustrated with the QuickHire status updates as people going through the hiring process are and would like to find a way to fix this. It may take a little time, though...

[atlantapeaches]

Thanks Buman for the continuous information. Have a great vacation

[electra1978]

Yeah, thanks BUman. You have been so helpful in alleviating a lot of our concerns and answering questions. Thanks for your time and patience.

[achefswife]

Thanks soooo much for the info BuMan.

[achefswife]

Anyone have any idea where the place you when you have a science (Biology) background. Any idea on whether or not they can place you in either of the job descriptions because of your analytical background. I can't see them placing me with a science background in finance. Maybe if I knew a few of the different areas and their functions I would have a better understanding. Some of the info on the website (FBI) is so vague.

[OrangeAlum2003]

As of yet, despite the apparent increase of interview calls lately, I have still not received an invitation to interview. I hope that they still have calls to make, but my level of optimism has certainly decreased. Has anyone been called by the San Francisco FO on the board? Not sure if they are hiring, but I assume they would be processing the application since that's the closest FO to me. Anyway, congrats to all you on the board so far with interviews. Best of luck.

[a21ozcoldcup]

I've only been reading this forum for about a week and a half but I wanted to thank you for being so helpful. We need more people like you working for the government. Oh.. and this icon rocks... :cool:

[electra1978]

As of yet, despite the apparent increase of interview calls lately, I have still not received an invitation to interview. I hope that they still have calls to make, but my level of optimism has certainly decreased. Has anyone been called by the San Francisco FO on the board? Not sure if they are hiring, but I assume they would be processing the application since that's the closest FO to me. Anyway, congrats to all you on the board so far with interviews. Best of luck.

Hey Orange. I know what you mean. And the new info that only 17 FOs are hiring makes it even more depressing. ;) I have been applying to other jobs in the past couple days, but still keeping an eye on my cellphone just in case. Anyway, the woman I spoke to a while ago told me to call back HQ in two weeks which I'm going to do. People are still getting calls as they go down the queue so you never know....

[electra1978]

Hell-o Electra1978,

Yes, the position I was interviewed for was for the FO-2005-0022 announcement, submitted in March, and I confirmed it with the representative with the FBI. The status of that application: Application Received.

I was not interviewed (as of yet) for the HQ-2005-0008 announcement, submitted in February. But I assume that since there was a "blitz" in March/April for interviews for this announcement, I probably won't be called in for an interview. The status of that application: Referred to Selecting Official.

I wish I too knew what 17 out of 56 Field offices were hiring. I was hoping nearby Tampa, but that's okay.

Hey Ellington. That is really encouraging for those of us who haven't heard one way or the other yet. My birthday is coming up so maybe they're waiting until then to surprise me. :D

[Choicesix]

I just found this board today. I wish I had found it weeks ago; it would have saved me lots of frustration.

I applied under the Feb 05 IA announcement. I thought the process was moving smoothly until this month. I've been through the checks and was told "I was hired" and waiting for a letter establishing my date to start working. The 16th of May became the 31st and now I haven't heard from my HR rep. I keep getting voicemail. Reading your posts I realize I'm not alone in waiting and trying to remain patient. I just wish my HR rep could give me some sort of estimate on when I'm going to start so I could arrange my finances accordingly.

[JulieAnn1270]

Hello all,

I finally got an HR rep to speak with at Quantico about my offer and the status of the background check. I was "fast-tracked" in March since I already had a TS/SCI, and this means there is a deadline of June 30th for my processing to be completed (3 months). The HR rep said that without a fast-track, it would take 8-9 months. She also explained how understaffed they are for processing people and their backgrounds, and that all applicants were re-routed to be processed through the Office of Intelligence at HQ, which bottlenecks everything, but that the FBI has prioritized the processing of IA's above all others and they are trying to hire 800 people from that job category still, so that should give all of you that are waiting some extra hope!

Hopefully I will receive a final offer shortly after the end of this month. I was told that they had approved my requested pay but have not yet determined whether I will be eligible for a bonus. Anyway, this is based off an application from last July (I had also re-applied in Feb 2005 since that one was cancelled). She told me once everything goes through I would attend a 2-day orientation at HQ in DC and then report to Quantico. Hopefully nothing will go wrong through the end of this month! :)

[electra1978]

Hello all,

I finally got an HR rep to speak with at Quantico about my offer and the status of the background check. I was "fast-tracked" in March since I already had a TS/SCI, and this means there is a deadline of June 30th for my processing to be completed (3 months). The HR rep said that without a fast-track, it would take 8-9 months. She also explained how understaffed they are for processing people and their backgrounds, and that all applicants were re-routed to be processed through the Office of Intelligence at HQ, which bottlenecks everything, but that the FBI has prioritized the processing of IA's above all others and they are trying to hire 800 people from that job category still, so that should give all of you that are waiting some extra hope!

Hopefully I will receive a final offer shortly after the end of this month. I was told that they had approved my requested pay but have not yet determined whether I will be eligible for a bonus. Anyway, this is based off an application from last July (I had also re-applied in Feb 2005 since that one was cancelled). She told me once everything goes through I would attend a 2-day orientation at HQ in DC and then report to Quantico. Hopefully nothing will go wrong through the end of this month! :)

Thanks JulieAnn1270 for the hopeful insider info! From what you told us, I feel more confident that I will hear something soon. I think what worried people most was the shift on their application status from referred to selecting official to application received. But, from what you and others on the board have shared, it doesn't seem like a reliable indicator anymore of who will get the call...

And Congrats on getting this far in the process. I'm sure you will be putting your personal touch on your desk at HQ very soon.

Keep those updates coming!

[Choicesix]

JulieAnn1270

I envy you your HR contact; I haven't been so lucky. Like you I already had a TS/SCI and my checks were expedited, so I hope I'm in the same boat. Was the HR rep someone you had previously worked with? I understand they're understaffed, but right now I don't know what to do in terms of temp employment/income. Congratulations on yur good news. Keep posting--it's good to know there is light at the end of the tunnel.

[BuMan]

Anyone have any idea where the place you when you have a science (Biology) background. Any idea on whether or not they can place you in either of the job descriptions because of your analytical background. I can't see them placing me with a science background in finance. Maybe if I knew a few of the different areas and their functions I would have a better understanding. Some of the info on the website (FBI) is so vague.

The process can be a bit random at times, but I would suspect that Counterterrorism or Counterintelligence would be looking for someone with a biology background. There are several units spread over a couple of sections in CTD that handle WMD issues and CI handles counterproliferation issues, so you might find a home there. Just a guess, though.

[DM05]

I noticed that my status changed back to "referred to selecting official" once again today. So the "application received" status was short-lived. Has anyone started the process in the Memphis, Birmingham, or Jackson area?

[OrangeAlum2003]

I noticed that my status changed back to "referred to selecting official" once again today. So the "application received" status was short-lived. Has anyone started the process in the Memphis, Birmingham, or Jackson area?

My status also changed back from "application received" to "referred to selecting official." It's funny how the slightest change can incite all the speculation on our part. I have absolutely no idea what it means honestly. I guess "referred to selecting official" is better than "not selected." Who knows? The lack of clear information is certainly frustrating. The Bureau must have anticipated getting a tremendous response to the announcement. I think it would serve them well in the long run to provide quicker turnarounds and definitive information to applicants. I guess when demand for jobs is high, however, they can afford to be less responsive. To give some perspective, and admittedly it's not necessarily a fair comparison, I recently started a new job (private sector). I had lunch with a guy on a Thursday who forwarded my resume to a colleague of his. I interviewed on the following Monday. They called a reference of mine on Wednesday, and offered me the job on Thursday. I started the following Tuesday. Not even 2 weeks from start to finish. Go figure.

[electra1978]

My status also changed back from "application received" to "referred to selecting official." It's funny how the slightest change can incite all the speculation on our part. I have absolutely no idea what it means honestly. I guess "referred to selecting official" is better than "not selected." Who knows? The lack of clear information is certainly frustrating. The Bureau must have anticipated getting a tremendous response to the announcement. I think it would serve them well in the long run to provide quicker turnarounds and definitive information to applicants. I guess when demand for jobs is high, however, they can afford to be less responsive. To give some perspective, and admittedly it's not necessarily a fair comparison, I recently started a new job (private sector). I had lunch with a guy on a Thursday who forwarded my resume to a colleague of his. I interviewed on the following Monday. They called a reference of mine on Wednesday, and offered me the job on Thursday. I started the following Tuesday. Not even 2 weeks from start to finish. Go figure.

Ditto. Same change. I do find it encouraging though that it wasn't changed to "not among highest qualified" or something like that. What really made my day though was the new job posting for an Intelligence Assistant in my FO. It's a lower position than the one I applied to, but it'll be a great way to get in, and stay in my city for the time being.

Keep the faith

[achefswife]

Im in B'ham. I interview on the 13th of June. Hoping to stay here if possible, but only time will tell. I wish I knew if their office was one of the infamous 17.

[eff-bee-eye]

Im in B'ham. I interview on the 13th of June. Hoping to stay here if possible, but only time will tell. I wish I knew if their office was one of the infamous 17.

No, Birmingham is one of our smaller offices, or about our 45th biggest office if you want to look at it that way. :D
But with the new policy, you wouldn't be going to a top 15-17, just the opposite.

[electra1978]

No, Birmingham is one of our smaller offices, or about our 45th biggest office if you want to look at it that way. :D
But with the new policy, you wouldn't be going to a top 15-17, just the opposite.

Not to start a flood of questions about FO sizes, but would Boston be considered of the bigger offices?

Also, could you explain what the new policy is? Thanks!

[eff-bee-eye]

Check out my post (and others) here: (Boston is about #10 in size)

http://www.911jobforums.com/vB/showthread.php3?t=38593&highlight=fbi+offices+order

And then, run a search on the FBI transfer policy. I'm sure you'll find a bunch of threads. But starting next fiscal year (Oct '05), the FBI has a new policy to send new agents to a small office for 3 years, then rotate them to a big office.

[forms]

My "Referred to selecting official"s that had been downgraded to "Application Received"s are now back to "Referred to selecting official" again too.

I completed and passed a BI for the USSS in March 05, would this be likely to expedite a FBI IA BI?

[electra1978]

My "Referred to selecting official"s that had been downgraded to "Application Received"s are now back to "Referred to selecting official" again too.

I completed and passed a BI for the USSS in March 05, would this be likely to expedite a FBI IA BI?

It seems that everyone who was "referred" then downgraded is now back to "referred." I wonder if that is significant at all or nothing to get excite over?

[achefswife]

I think you misunderstood what I meant about the "17". In an ealier thread it was mentioned that only 17 FO were hiring at this time. But of course nobody knows which ones. Correct me if I am wrong. You are saying that they are sending new IA or agents to smaller field offices? If there sending us to smaller offices then Birmingham would be a really good pick since it's not even ranked in the top 25.

[BuMan]

From what I have heard from the DI folks handling hiring, I wouldn't put too much faith into the cryptic messages on the QuickHire site. A letter, fax or phone call will provide the real information. There have been too many stories of the QuickHire site having incorrect status information for someone who has already reported aboard to put too much faith (or worry) into the posted status...

As for where people are going - no idea. As stated previously, I'm not in the office this week and I haven't seen anything coming out of DI before I left indicating where the vacancies were. I would say that until something definitive is heard, don't assume that the 17 field offices hiring IAs have any relationship to the Big 15 + 2 field offices that SAs are assigned to.

Also, one final note - the Intelligence Assistant position is not yet part of the Directorate of Intelligence, although there is some consideration towards pulling them under the umbrella of DI. Getting your foot in the door may not smooth things out for moving into an IA position in the future. Even if you got an Intel Asst position, if you applied for an Intel Analyst position, you would be competing against all other applicants (including external candidates) for the position.

[Choicesix]

BuMan,

I'd really appreciate your assessment on a problem. I haven't heard from my staffing rep for two weeks now. We talked about my starting on the 16th of May but the call never came. We next talked about my starting on the 31st but htat has come and gone. When next I called her she said she would call me with an update by the close of business. It's been two weeks now and I'm a little worried. Is there any other way for me to inquire or find out my status. All I really want to know is a rough estimate of how it will take so I canmake certain financial arrangements. If it's going to take a month or two or three I just want to know. I've left messages but none have been returned.

Thanks for any advice or guidance you can lend on this frustrating matter.

[BuMan]

BuMan,

I'd really appreciate your assessment on a problem. I haven't heard from my staffing rep for two weeks now. We talked about my starting on the 16th of May but the call never came. We next talked about my starting on the 31st but htat has come and gone. When next I called her she said she would call me with an update by the close of business. It's been two weeks now and I'm a little worried. Is there any other way for me to inquire or find out my status. All I really want to know is a rough estimate of how it will take so I canmake certain financial arrangements. If it's going to take a month or two or three I just want to know. I've left messages but none have been returned.

Thanks for any advice or guidance you can lend on this frustrating matter.

Well, if you want a visit from a representative of the FBI, put some powdered sugar in an envelope and send it to FBI Headquarters, Attn: the Director. Of course, that might derail your chances of getting hired.

Seriously, though (and by that I mean that the above paragraph was a joke and no one should send in an envelope of powdered sugar), I've heard of numerous problems with the Staffing folks in terms of getting people hired in a timely fashion. I don't know what the easy answer is, but when I get back, I can reiterate the problem to the DI folks who are handling this.

For the information of all, I did a little research project for the DI by chasing down some of the typical complaints and forwarding them on to the unit that oversees hiring for the DI. A couple of the major complaints that I cited were the inaccurate/misleading status reports for QuickHire and the lack of availability of ACs for IAs. I offered the suggestion that if the DI is serious about developing a parallel recruitment, hiring, training and testing system for IAs, there should be a parallel system of ACs for the IA program. It could take the form of having an IA in the office detailed to recruiting for a period of time, potentially for credit for future advancement, or whatever form they see fit to implement (if any). The DI folks are aware of the problem, but they don't have direct control or oversight over the folks in the Staffing Unit who actually do the formal hiring. That makes it difficult to implement changes, particularly in a timely fashion. Right now, it's one fight at a time for the DI folks, so it may not change overnight. There's a suggestion in your PM box that might help.

[electra1978]

From what I have heard from the DI folks handling hiring, I wouldn't put too much faith into the cryptic messages on the QuickHire site. A letter, fax or phone call will provide the real information. There have been too many stories of the QuickHire site having incorrect status information for someone who has already reported aboard to put too much faith (or worry) into the posted status...

As for where people are going - no idea. As stated previously, I'm not in the office this week and I haven't seen anything coming out of DI before I left indicating where the vacancies were. I would say that until something definitive is heard, don't assume that the 17 field offices hiring IAs have any relationship to the Big 15 + 2 field offices that SAs are assigned to.

Also, one final note - the Intelligence Assistant position is not yet part of the Directorate of Intelligence, although there is some consideration towards pulling them under the umbrella of DI. Getting your foot in the door may not smooth things out for moving into an IA position in the future. Even if you got an Intel Asst position, if you applied for an Intel Analyst position, you would be competing against all other applicants (including external candidates) for the position.

Thanks BUMan. I just assumed that the I.Asst. position WAS under the DI... OK, so some much-appreciated advice. My thinking was if the assistant position was offered to me (of course if the IA position fell through), it would be to my advantage because I would rack up more direct experience in the field, and already have my security clearances for when other opportunities within the FBI open up.
The thing is I know I want a career with the FBI. It is the one agency for whatever faults it may have that I respect for the great work its done, I admire Mueller, and I honestly can't see myself working for any other agency.

Would I be more at a disadvantage for moving up the ranks if I took the assistant position?

Thanks!

[BuMan]

Thanks BUMan. I just assumed that the I.Asst. position WAS under the DI... OK, so some much-appreciated advice. My thinking was if the assistant position was offered to me (of course if the IA position fell through), it would be to my advantage because I would rack up more direct experience in the field, and already have my security clearances for when other opportunities within the FBI open up.

Would I be more at a disadvantage for moving up the ranks if I took the assistant position?


I wouldn't say it's a disadvantage, but it's not a major advantage either. When I've sat in on a hiring meeting for HQ divisions, there wasn't a lot of discussion as to whether this candidate was internal or external when it came to sending them to a particular assignment - the only time that came into play was when someone was already working in a unit in one position and the unit chief requested them back as an Intel Analyst. In at least one case that I can remember, it was an Intel Asst moving to an Intel Analyst position, so it can be done. And, certainly, once you're on board, you'll have your security clearances and everything else taken care of, so it will be faster to transition from one position to another.

If you do pursue the Intel Asst position, just remember that it's not a guaranteed entry path into the Intel Analyst position. It's a foot into the door of the FBI, and that's all...eyes wide open and all that.

[electra1978]

I wouldn't say it's a disadvantage, but it's not a major advantage either. When I've sat in on a hiring meeting for HQ divisions, there wasn't a lot of discussion as to whether this candidate was internal or external when it came to sending them to a particular assignment - the only time that came into play was when someone was already working in a unit in one position and the unit chief requested them back as an Intel Analyst. In at least one case that I can remember, it was an Intel Asst moving to an Intel Analyst position, so it can be done. And, certainly, once you're on board, you'll have your security clearances and everything else taken care of, so it will be faster to transition from one position to another.

If you do pursue the Intel Asst position, just remember that it's not a guaranteed entry path into the Intel Analyst position. It's a foot into the door of the FBI, and that's all...eyes wide open and all that.

That does make sense. I guess I'll just wait and see what happens with both applications and then take it from there. Basically, a first come first serve approach. Thanks as usual for the helpful advice.

[achefswife]

How does the FBI handle giving you a position when your present position is a contract position. Ok here's a little background information: I'm a teacher and therefore I work under yearly contracts. I recently (yesterday) resigned in the district that I worked in only to receive (today) an offer from a better school district. The analyst position did steer me towards my resignation, but I was doing it because I had plans to get out of the teaching field with or without a job. Now that I've been offered a job with a different district I'm stumped about what to do. I've been straight forward with the hiring official at this new position because I wanted him to really know where my heart was (with the FBI), but that I would be loyal to him because if I were not then it would pull and tug at my integrity. Now the only thing is.....If the FBI moves faster than the normal 8-9 months on the background check then I'll be leaving in the middle of the school year. Is the FBI flexible with report dates or must I report on the day that they schedule. I know that question may sound crazy since most people are ready to report to Timbucktu on the 30th of Feb. if they have to.

[BuMan]

Is the FBI flexible with report dates or must I report on the day that they schedule. I know that question may sound crazy since most people are ready to report to Timbucktu on the 30th of Feb. if they have to.


Generally, they are reasonably flexible. It's hardly a character flaw to want to fulfill the terms of your contract. When it gets to that point, I'd talk to the Staffing folks and see if they can scheudle a time that works for you.

[atlantapeaches]

Buman I thought they might be contacting people letting them know what the status of our applications were by now. I thought I read on one of the threads that they would be contacting people starting 06/03 - 0/10/2005.....is that true?

[achefswife]

Generally, they are reasonably flexible. It's hardly a character flaw to want to fulfill the terms of your contract. When it gets to that point, I'd talk to the Staffing folks and see if they can scheudle a time that works for you.


Well that really helps me out. Thanks again BuMan.

[BuMan]

Buman I thought they might be contacting people letting them know what the status of our applications were by now. I thought I read on one of the threads that they would be contacting people starting 06/03 - 0/10/2005.....is that true?

No idea on when they plan to contact people with a firm status update. I do know that the last time they did the hiring blitz and had several dozen candidates brought in to DC to be interviewed, it was about a month from the interviews until a spreadsheet of the candidates with the interviewer's comments and assessments were put together for a hiring board to select names. That may have been the first time through that process and it may have been speeded up, particularly since they've got some new people on board, but I couldn't tell you for sure. I don't want to sound harsh, but the cold hard reality of the situation is that they'll contact you when they're ready. Step back, take a deep breath and go see a movie or something. If they call you next week, then so much the better...if it's not until July, at least you will have seen a movie to keep you entertained. Worrying about it isn't going to make the phone ring any faster.

[OrangeAlum2003]

I called and actually spoke with someone from the staffing office here at the SF Field Office. I had told her that my application was "referred to selecting official" on QuickHire but that I had not heard anything for quite some time. She said that they had just finished their list of interviewees and my name was not on the list. She wasn't quite sure to whom I had been referred if indeed the website is accurate, because apparently my name would have gone through that office. In any event, she said that it is entirely possible that since I was in the March 31 group, that I might be called at a later date. I'm not sure how much stock to put in that. I've gotten used to the wait, so I guess a few more weeks/months/quarters won't make much of a difference. If it's meant to be great, if not it's out of my control. The whole process is pretty much an enigma to me, and I haven't really found much solace in the speculating and wishing. It is what it is. I guess the positive note is, as we suspected from others on the board, that they are indeed actively interviewing/hiring.

[geographer1]

The last announcement was originally open through Sept 05, but was closed soon after it was posted. Is there going to be a new IA announcement after the HR people catch up?

[sigepuofu]

Hi all.

Since I had a spare minute, just thought I'd check in and say hi to everyone. This last week's been pretty crazy-the first few days I was in EOD orientation all day-every possible unit in the Bureau came and talked to us, not to mention the pile of paperwork you're given. Pretty interesting way to greet you, but oh well, it was interesting. We got to meet some of the higher-ups in the Bureau, that was cool. Got taken up to my unit after EOD orientation-can't really go into it, but suffice to say, I'm psyched at what I'll be doing. Everyone I've met at the Bureau so far has been very nice and pleasant, and have welcomed me with open arms. Looks like its going to be an interesting place to work.

As for the question of flexibility on starting dates, when I was given the offer, I was given a range of starting dates to choose from, with about two months' difference between the first and last dates. It all is contingent with the beginning of a pay period-that's when you have to EOD. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Enjoy
Sigepuofu

[Joeytlc1]

I have also applied for the Intelligence Analyst position(s) and getting a little concerned after reading some of the posts above. My application status shown on the FBIjobs website is, "referred to selecting official" for 2004: FO-2004-0021; HQ-2004-0026, and 2005: FO-2005-0022; and HQ-2005-0008 positions that I applied for.

I Passed the poly, drug test, fingerprinting and had a phone interview with a gentlemen in D.C. all done in August 2004 and still no info.

Is there something I am missing??? The individual I took the drug test and fingerprinting in my area told me when she called for me to come take the tests she told me that she needed everything done so they could have me hired me by the 30th, that was August of last year, but when I called and left her a message to see if she chould check into it for me I never received a phone call back. What is taking so long?

I have filled out several application forms since then, that were sent to me and I sent them Fedex overnight and called the number on the Open Announcement form only to receive no return phone calls and same goes for emails.

Do I not have the educational background?

I Have:
A.S. in Aviation Administration
Bachelors in E-Business
Pending MBA (July 2005)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all in advance.

[SEgis]

Hi all.

Since I had a spare minute, just thought I'd check in and say hi to everyone. This last week's been pretty crazy-the first few days I was in EOD orientation all day-every possible unit in the Bureau came and talked to us, not to mention the pile of paperwork you're given. Pretty interesting way to greet you, but oh well, it was interesting. We got to meet some of the higher-ups in the Bureau, that was cool. Got taken up to my unit after EOD orientation-can't really go into it, but suffice to say, I'm psyched at what I'll be doing. Everyone I've met at the Bureau so far has been very nice and pleasant, and have welcomed me with open arms. Looks like its going to be an interesting place to work.

As for the question of flexibility on starting dates, when I was given the offer, I was given a range of starting dates to choose from, with about two months' difference between the first and last dates. It all is contingent with the beginning of a pay period-that's when you have to EOD. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Enjoy
Sigepuofu

Thanks for keeping us posted! We'd all love to be in your shoes, but until then, we will live vicariously through your updates -
:D

[tdstolz]

Hello, everyone. I had asked this question last week, but when the thread moved to a new page I think it was out of sight, out of mind. I apologize if I missed any responses, but if you don't mind I want to ask again.

I was reviewing my SF-86 not too long ago, mainly to see who has been contacted and trying to determine how far along my investigation is going. Section 29 ("Public Record Civil Court Actions") asks: "In the last seven years [for TS/SCI clearance, of course, I had to work back to age 18], have you been a party to any public record civil court actions not listed elsewhere on this form?" I answered "no"--I have neither sued anyone nor have I ever been sued.

About eight years ago, however, I was in a minor auto accident--a fender bender. My mistake was not calling the police. (I was young and it was my first accident!) I had the right of way at the uncontrolled intersection where the accident occurred. Not long after the accident, however, the other driver alleged that the accident was my fault. I rang my insurance agent and he said not to worry, she is most likely uninsured and using this as a last ditch attempt to get someone else to pay. I quite honestly do not recall all the details, but I do remember going to a small claims court/courthouse or some such place. She did not even show up (as my insurance agent had predicted). And that was it. I had not even thought of this until I reviewed my SF-86.

My question: Was this a "public record civil court action"? Is this the kind of incident sect. 29 has in mind? As I said, I answered "no" to the question on the SF-86--it never occurred to me to answer otherwise, and I remain uncertain if this is a civil court action. Nothing happened--it was as uneventful as I have explained it and the accident was not my fault--but I do not want to be misunderstood by the investigators as lacking candor or being dishonest, as if I am hiding something.

I shall contact my FO this morning and ask my contact about this. But can anyone tell me if this is even what the SF-86 has in mind?

Thanks so much!

Yours,
Travis

[Clem]

Here's an update from my world...I had my panel interview in a field office a week or so ago. Today I received a message from HQ that the FBI accepted my application and wants to continue the process. I was told I was being offered an IA position that is a GS level that is one below the level at which I applied. I will be notified by an agent regarding the next steps - poly, prints, etc.

[BuMan]

My question: Was this a "public record civil court action"? Is this the kind of incident sect. 29 has in mind? As I said, I answered "no" to the question on the SF-86--it never occurred to me to answer otherwise, and I remain uncertain if this is a civil court action. Nothing happened--it was as uneventful as I have explained it and the accident was not my fault--but I do not want to be misunderstood by the investigators as lacking candor or being dishonest, as if I am hiding something.

I shall contact my FO this morning and ask my contact about this. But can anyone tell me if this is even what the SF-86 has in mind?


This is one of those borderline things that it really depends on how and where it was handled. If it was a traffic court case, then it might not fit into the appropriate category. If it was a civil case, then it would definitely be in the correct category. Look at it this way, by providing the information, you don't have anything to worry about. By withholding the information, you potentially create the impression that you are trying to gloss over something in your past, which can be a disqualifier (lack of candor). Err on the side of caution, provide the information and carry on.

[tdstolz]

Dear BuMan,

Thanks! I have already spoken with a couple of people I know at the FO here in Milwaukee. They said not to worry and that I should write up the incident to the best of my recollection in case anyone asks about it. Candor, of course, is the main thing. I was never arrested, cited, etc. The accident was not my fault (I had the right-of-way in an uncontrolled intersection) and, as I said, the woman who hit my car never even showed up--I wonder if anything was ever even filed, or if there is even a record of this? I never received a summons, etc., so I do not think I was sued. (I should think I would have remembered that!)

Thanks again.

Yours,
Travis

[forms]

If the incident resulted in a court case number file/docket number it belongs on the the form. I had a crabby 80-year old neighbor who sued everyone. She took me to small claims because my flowers didn't match hers. It was dismissed because she'd filed wrong. She didn't filed again for some reason (probably because she was busy suing the other neighbor for allowing apples to fall on her yard or another one for stealing her car a year before that neighbor even moved in). Even though it was dismissed and petty, the suit generated a docket number and the investigator found it. I was glad I had included it in my notes. I wrote..."I don't know if this counts, but..."

[Chimaera32]

Greetings all:

I just got word that they are "wrapping up" my BI-about 4 months and I have lived all over the world (seems fast from what I have read in this forum). My pee and poly are done and I spoke with my HR person in my field office who said I would have heard something by now if all results were not positive.

My question: apparently ( I 've been told) now it goes to the security team that adjudicates (yeah or ney) on security matters regardless of the other elements of my background. I do have foriegn relatives (not in the States) but it seems strange to have gone through all the processing only to now have my relatives and the country they live in examined? If I could get DQ'd for this-why wouldn't they take a look at this first and have a preliminary decision?

Well...I guess at this point I just wait.

[tdstolz]

Dear GradGuy,

Excellent news! I, too, heard the same thing. My final personal reference was interviewed last week, and he told me that the investigator said that this was the last step before I was hired. I do not know if this was small talk or really where things are concerning my BI. My BI has been going on now for almost two months. I have neither lived overseas nor do I have relatives who are foreign nationals (or live overseas themselves). So perhaps I am heading towards adjudication as well?

Best of luck to you and everyone else as well!

Yours,
Travis

[tdstolz]

Dear Forms,

Thanks for the reply. I simply haven't got any documentation. It has been ca. eight years ago and there never was any documentation to begin with. I do not know how lawsuits work, but I was never served with any papers and as I said before, there was no ticket, certainly no arrest. Nothing ever happened--I was not at fault, the other driver never showed up, my car was fixed, and that was it. So I do not think I was technically sued. Then again, I really do not know how lawsuits work.

I have let the proper people know that something may be out there with my name on it. We are all on the same page, then. Are public records searched at the beginning of one's BI, or only when one's BI goes into adjudication? If it is the former, then there seems to be nothing about any of this at all, since I have never been contacted by an investigator to clarify what happened (or if there is some record, perhaps it was dismissed since nothing came of the dispute?).

My only concern all along was being clear to the investigators that if this is what the SF-86 has in mind, then I want them to know about it upfront and not have them think I am hiding it.

Yours,
Travis

[forms]

Doesn't it say any incident in the last seven years? If it happened eight years ago, you should be in the clear from that angle as well.

I don't think you have anything to worry about, but it never hurts to mention it.

[tdstolz]

Dear Forms,

Yes, but for a TS/SCI clearance, one has to go back to age 18 on the SF-86 for a number of questions, including this one: https://www.fbijobs.gov/SF86.asp. But you are absolutely right--it never hurts to mention anything. I have already heard from a number of people how much they appreciate my follow up, assistance, candor, etc. I would rather have someone tell me "Enough already!" than risk not saying anything. E.g., on my SF-86 and during my PSI, I explained that my wife's second cousin is from Norway and has been a legal resident since 1992. I went into great detail during the PSI, after which the agent said, "Yes, but we're not really worried about Norway." A rather polite way of saying "Enough already!"

Yours,
Travis

[tdstolz]

Hello, everyone. I realize there is an AC thread in this forum, but I have always gotten such quick as well as very good responses I thought I would post this here, too. My apologies for any redundancy.

I spoke with my regular contact in the Milwaukee FO yesterday. During our conversation, she asked if I had an "analyst" at HQ, i.e., a contact or AC. The only contact I have at HQ is the HR person with whom I was in contact as far as travel plans to DC were concerned. My conditional offer was verbal--no letter--and I was told that most COs are now verbal (final offers are letters, of course). I never received any word as far as having an "analyst" or an AC goes. Should I have? Or is this something I find out when my case hits HQ and goes into adjudication? When I told her I did not have an AC, she said that HQ handles things differently and was not concerned. My background is obviously moving along, at any rate.

So, ought I to have an AC? Am I missing something?

Thanks, as always!

Yours,
Travis

[Clem]

I learned today that conditional offers are actually being issued now by only some FOs. The person who called me from HQ said that she no longer mentions COs when talking with applicants because they are not uniformly issued.

[Clem]

What's this phase called "adjudication" when the BI is complete? I searched the board and couldn't find an explanation about what this is.

Also, if someone is a special agent, is it proper FBI etiquette to refer to them as Special Agent So and So? For example, would you refer to John Doe as Special Agent Doe?

Inquiring minds need to know.

[BuMan]

What's this phase called "adjudication" when the BI is complete? I searched the board and couldn't find an explanation about what this is.

Also, if someone is a special agent, is it proper FBI etiquette to refer to them as Special Agent So and So? For example, would you refer to John Doe as Special Agent Doe?

Inquiring minds need to know.

Ajudication is the process of reviewing the information developed during the background investigation and the polygraph and determining if the individual is a) suitable for employment with the FBI and b) suitable for granting a Top Secret clearance to. It's now conducted by the Security Division following the transfer of the Applicant Section (both SA and support) from the Adminstrative Services Division. It used to be two steps, now it should be one.

As far as addressing people in conversation, if they are in your unit/organization, you refer to them as John. This includes (in virtually all cases) your supervisor and/or unit chief. If you have a real dockhead as a boss, they may insist you call them Special Agent Doe, but you should then insist on being referred to as Intelligence Analyst Johnson. When you get two levels up, it should be Mr./Mrs. in most cases. In formal writing, you would use the title or an abbreviation thereof (I.e. SA Doe or IA Johnson). When you're interviewing, go with the formal until you're provided with an alternative.

[bad_timing]

:cool: This may be a bit off the subject so please forgive me. I must say that I really enjoy reading what everyone has to say about FBI I/A's. I recently had my interview for an I/A position and I am impatiently waiting for a response. I think my interview was for a FO position but I can't be sure. Waiting is the worst part, so for anyone out there who is in the same boat as I am, I feel your pain.

BuMan, I'm a bit curious about the tests for newly hired I/A's. I know you made mention about a written piece but you eluded to any other forms of assessment. I was wondering if you could please entertain my ignorance and elaborate. I know it's still a long way off for me but this forum is the first that I heard of any testing. Perhaps I should crawl out from underneath that rock that I have been hiding. Thanks!

[BuMan]

BuMan, I'm a bit curious about the tests for newly hired I/A's. I know you made mention about a written piece but you eluded to any other forms of assessment. I was wondering if you could please entertain my ignorance and elaborate. I know it's still a long way off for me but this forum is the first that I heard of any testing. Perhaps I should crawl out from underneath that rock that I have been hiding. Thanks!

The testing is being developed and validated and won't be in place until September at the earliest. The only thing I have heard consistently is that a writing portion will be included, but no details on what form it will take. There have also been mentions of cognitive ability testing, but I haven't seen anything definitive there, so, for now, will stick with the following statement, "The goal of the Directorate of Intelligence is to implement a validated entry-level testing scheme during the 4th Quarter of FY 05 for all Directorate of Intelligence applicants. The exact format of the testing for each of the positions has not yet been determined."

[Clem]

I'm reviewing my SF-86 and making sure I completed it correctly. I have a question that I don't see answered elsewhere on this board.

As the form instructs, I have given the list of my addresses since I was 18. The form also indicates that I should list the name of a person who knew me "at that address". Does this mean I am required to name a person who also lived at that address also or nearby (like next door)? Does it mean I should name any person who lived in the same general area (like the same city) and who knew me during the period of time that I lived at that address?

Any clarification would be appreciated. :o

[bad_timing]

They are looking for a neighbor who currently lives near you.

[achefswife]

Had my interview today. :D It went pretty well... your standard 3 person panel interview. Will let everyone know when I hear something back.

[thewaiter]

Wow, I am glad to have found this site. I have so many IA concerns and questions. Not sure who to ask. I have heard/read positive and negative opinions about the position.

1. It does not give the promoting opportunies within the Bureau.
2. IAs dont receive as much respect within the Bureau.
3. Low pay, etc.

Are those correct? Also, what is after the background investigation? Will i have to go through other tests? Can i request a salary? What are my chances?

Currently, I am doing my doctorate. I just want to make sure that what i am leaving behind is worth it.

Thanks for your responses.

[BuMan]

Wow, I am glad to have found this site. I have so many IA concerns and questions. Not sure who to ask. I have heard/read positive and negative opinions about the position.

1. It does not give the promoting opportunies within the Bureau.
2. IAs dont receive as much respect within the Bureau.
3. Low pay, etc.

Are those correct? Also, what is after the background investigation? Will i have to go through other tests? Can i request a salary? What are my chances?

Currently, I am doing my doctorate. I just want to make sure that what i am leaving behind is worth it.

Thanks for your responses.

Every position in every agency has it's positives and negatives. In a way, you are fortunate in that there is a lot of discussion on those positives and negatives here which give you an idea of them before you get on the job. But to answer your questions, to the degree they can be answered:

1) Promotions - there is the absolute possibility that an IA can move through the career path from a GS-7 to a GS-14. For the lower grade promotions, they are handled through a division career board review. For the higher grade positions, they are conducted by a centralized career board through the DI. This is, in theory, a proficiency based advancement, which is different from most other positions in the FBI and, in fact, the federal government.

2) Respect - Yes, there are issues with respect. Some of this is a holdover from previous hiring/promotion practices, where long-term clerks were selected for IA positions because they had been there a long time, paid their dues, and it was seen as a reward as folks approached retirement. That's not an effective way to build an intelligence program. The new system is hiring people who have qualifications equal to or exceeding those of special agents. As the career boards for IA promotions advance qualified people, the respect level will build. As the pre-employment testing program is put into place, IAs will be going through a similar process to the Agents, with stricter standards for advancement than the Agents have (at least within the basic career path). Cohort training, with IAs training and working with new agents, will educate the SA population on the resources available and expectations for performance from the IA community and further nurture the development of a mutual respect between the agents and analysts (and SSGs and Language Specialists) Respect will grow over time. Heck, I was looking through applications, trying to find some good candidates, and I was seeing PhDs, JDs, a whole slew of Master's candidates, and a lot of experienced IAs from other agencies putting in for jobs. It's not perfect, but it's improving.

3) Low Pay - Compared to what? If someone is coming out of college with just a Bachelors and no experience, then isn't a GS-7 a reasonable starting position? Developing skills during the first year on the job will lead to advancement. IAs can get up to a GS-14 within the career path, which is higher than the base pay of a journeyman agent. Someone who brings more to the table (a Masters or PhD) starts off at a higher level. Someone with demonstrated performance as an IA with another agency can do a lateral transfer. It's OPMs system, not the FBI's, we're just stuck with their rules. Pay banding, which is a proposal on the table now, will adjust the advancement within the pay grades and may cut down the number of times you have to deal with a career board.

4) After the BI - After the BI, assuming a candidate passes it, the name will be passed on to divisions (either field or HQ) for consideration for placement. They're working on how long someone will stay on a hiring list before the drop off and out of consideration, but it's a fairly straightforward process.

5) Salary Requests - As noted above, the salary setting rules are OPM generated. Your education and experience and existing federal job salary (if you're an 0132 already) will come into play in determining your starting salary, but these are government-wide personnel rules. There's the option of matching a private sector job salary, but if it's not directly relevant to the job you're applying for, it may not get taken into consideration or may not be able to be matched.

6) Your chances - That's dependent upon your background and the writeup you do for the application, as well as how you interview. It's also a factor of whether units looking for someone with your background have vacancies. Without knowing specifics and what's available at the time you apply, there's no way to tell.

[thewaiter]

Thank you BuMan for your responses. They are very helpful.

[achefswife]

BuMan: What is the proper time frame for doing follow up calls if you don't hear anything back from your interview but you feel that you have given them an "adequate" (in your own mind) amount of time? They answered so many of my question throughout the interview that when I got back to my car I realized that the "when can I expect to hear from you question" hadn't gotten answered. Maybe it is best that I don't know so I won't be checking the phone every time it rings or meeting the postman at the stop sign.

[diablo3305]

BuMan: What is the proper time frame for doing follow up calls if you don't hear anything back from your interview but you feel that you have given them an "adequate" (in your own mind) amount of time? They answered so many of my question throughout the interview that when I got back to my car I realized that the "when can I expect to hear from you question" hadn't gotten answered. Maybe it is best that I don't know so I won't be checking the phone every time it rings or meeting the postman at the stop sign.


From my experience, you have a bit of time to wait. I waited 2 months after my interview for another contact and that was to fill out my FD-140. I think that if they want you, they will contact you. The waiting is no fun, but its part of the game. I just go on living, trying not to think about it. I am awaiting my final call now, and the wait is awful, but I'm used to it by now.

When I had my interview, they analysts I spoke with told me I could call HQ a few weeks after my interview, to check my status. They didn't give me a number or contact though, so I just waited it out. I think one way or another, you will hear something. Did they suggest who you could place a follow up call to?

[thewaiter]

From my experience, you have a bit of time to wait. I waited 2 months after my interview for another contact and that was to fill out my FD-140. I think that if they want you, they will contact you. The waiting is no fun, but its part of the game. I just go on living, trying not to think about it. I am awaiting my final call now, and the wait is awful, but I'm used to it by now.

When I had my interview, they analysts I spoke with told me I could call HQ a few weeks after my interview, to check my status. They didn't give me a number or contact though, so I just waited it out. I think one way or another, you will hear something. Did they suggest who you could place a follow up call to?

It seems like the process that i had this past April is different compared to what i have read on here. For me, I submitted my resume online and was called for the interview. I did everything there including submitting F140 and the other form, panel interview, poly, and uri. I was told to go home and wait for my BI. I believe i also was given the initial salary as well.

[sigepuofu]

Hi all.

Just wanted to give a little bit of insight from the other side of the IA hiring process. I know you're all anxious to hear some news and to get hired, but trust me, the hiring people in the Directorate of Intelligence are working as fast as they can-I know, because I've had to deal with them a lot lately taking care of various administrative issues-getting extra security briefings, computer access, etc. They're a little overworked right now because they are not only dealing with hiring new applicants, they have to help in-process the new people who have come on duty: four other IA's came on with me on the 31st, and this is on top of a new Visual Information Specialist in my unit-you have to remember, there aren't just IAs getting hired for the Directorate of Intelligence-VIS people are being hired, as well as Program Analysts and other types-the same office is responsible for hiring them in the DI.

I know that's probably not what y'all wanted to hear, but they are trying to get people hired-trust me, we need them-we're understaffed in my unit.

good luck, try and stay in a positive mindset, and be patient-it's going to be worth it when you get hired, trust me.

[sigepuofu]

Glad to see this thread got a five-star rating. goes to show how valuable it is-there isn't another source of information about the IA program as knowledgable on the net. Just wondering, how does a thread get rated?

[tdstolz]

Dear Achefswife,

I won't presume to answer for BuMan, but I think thirty days is a reasonable amount of time for a follow up. This is what Kathryn Kraemer Troutman recommends in Ten Steps to a Federal Job (I think--it has been some time since I last looked through her book). At any rate, following up demonstrates, inter alia, determination, enthusiasm, seriousness, etc. It will show them that you are dead set on the job, i.e., that you want it.

Here's my own experience with following up, for what it's worth: I've been applying to IA positions since last year (i.e., last summer--July or August). I now have a CO and am in background, having returned from a "hiring blitz" outside DC back in April. Since I began applying for IA positions, I regularly followed up (via snail mail) with the HR contact listed on the vacancy announcement. Every month I would send another batch of letters. I have also sent letters to anyone in the FBI I thought might be interested, anyone who might want to know my background and determination to become an IA.

When I was at the April blitz and was speaking with the HR person who made me the CO, her name was vaguely familiar. Mine was a bit more familiar: "You're Travis," she said, "the person who sent me letters." That's right. Another HR person in the room but at another table overheard our conversation. "Is that Travis?" she asked. Lo and behold.

Now, none of these letters got me the CO, but that isn't really the point of following up. Following up is all about showing one's interest as well as making contacts--getting people to know you and what you can do for them.

Well, after I got back from DC, I sent a thank you note to the HR person who made the CO. I got a telephone call from her about a week later, thanking me for my note and wishing me well in the process.

So do follow up. It's just good manners to thank someone for helping you along in the process, and it is a great opportunity to show how much you want the job.

Yours,
Travis

[DM05]

Just checking in. Is anyone here besides me, who has been referred, still not been contacted for an interview yet?

[electra1978]

Just checking in. Is anyone here besides me, who has been referred, still not been contacted for an interview yet?

I was about to ask the same question. My status hasn't changed at all and is still "referred." I was also wondering if calls for interviews are still being made or not.

[Colonials322]

My status is still "referred..." according to the website, but I just got a call to set up an interview yesterday. I applied around December or January just to give you a time frame.

[Ellington]

It has been a while since I have been in this room. Here is my timeline:

May 31: Interviewed at Tampa FO.

June 8: Received a call from HQ offering me a CO (left a message on voicemail). I returned the call. My call was returned and HQ told me that Tampa FO will give me a call within the next 2 weeks to schedule a date for the PSI, Poly, and drug test.

June 16 (Today): Waiting for the call from Tampa FO.

[electra1978]

My status is still "referred..." according to the website, but I just got a call to set up an interview yesterday. I applied around December or January just to give you a time frame.

Congrats on getting THE CALL!! :D That's great news that they are still calling people. I will continue to wait patiently as I applied at the end of March...

Strange Question: Would the person calling leave a voicemail? Reason I'm asking is I'm at work from 8:30-5:30 everyday, and I have to keep my cellphone on silent while at work....

[Choicesix]

Thanks you Sigepuofu for offering hope. My AC talked about my starting in May and that came and went and now she's talking about my starting in June. June is half over and I haven't heard from her in a while. The 27th would be the 4th false start. I've avoided turning down other offers so far, but I don't know how long I can keep dodging other, more "credible" offers. I really want this job--intel work is very rewarding, but intel combined with law enforcement offers a sense of completion that other assignments don't. I hope this works out. ;)

[DM05]

Congrats on getting THE CALL!! :D That's great news that they are still calling people. I will continue to wait patiently as I applied at the end of March...

Strange Question: Would the person calling leave a voicemail? Reason I'm asking is I'm at work from 8:30-5:30 everyday, and I have to keep my cellphone on silent while at work....

I wouldn't worry about not getting a call, when I was called last year I received a voice message. I also received an email from HQ staff, so check email often as well.

I noticed today that on the fbijobs website the title of "support personnel" has been replaced with "professional staff". Sounds a bit more formal I think...

[thewaiter]

It has been a while since I have been in this room. Here is my timeline:

May 31: Interviewed at Tampa FO.

June 8: Received a call from HQ offering me a CO (left a message on voicemail). I returned the call. My call was returned and HQ told me that Tampa FO will give me a call within the next 2 weeks to schedule a date for the PSI, Poly, and drug test.

June 16 (Today): Waiting for the call from Tampa FO.

First congrats. It's weird but my process seems different compared to most here.

I applied sometime in November or December (not even sure). I received a call sometime in late March for an interview in DC. I wasn't offered a CO or anything which many here were offered. I went to DC in Mid-April for the interview with all the forms. My first part was PSI and I was offered a CO. After that, I went to a personal interview then poly then drug test in that second day.

Anyhow, you guys seem to have received the CO before hand.

[diablo3305]

First congrats. It's weird but my process seems different compared to most here.

I applied sometime in November or December (not even sure). I received a call sometime in late March for an interview in DC. I wasn't offered a CO or anything which many here were offered. I went to DC in Mid-April for the interview with all the forms. My first part was PSI and I was offered a CO. After that, I went to a personal interview then poly then drug test in that second day.

Anyhow, you guys seem to have received the CO before hand.


I had got my CO back in march over the phone. I did a meet and greet in october of 04. My BI started shortly after my CO, and my poly and PSI was in may, after my BI was already underway. I haven't heard a thing since my poly, so i'm taking that as a good sign. It seems that most of the steps people go through are not standarized in a particular order.

[BuMan]

I had got my CO back in march over the phone. I did a meet and greet in october of 04. My BI started shortly after my CO, and my poly and PSI was in may, after my BI was already underway. I haven't heard a thing since my poly, so i'm taking that as a good sign. It seems that most of the steps people go through are not standarized in a particular order.

The system has evolved over the past year or two as you may have noticed. Originally, postings went up for specific offices. This wasn't so good, because people put in for multiple applications for multiple offices, which meant a lot of duplicate applications, with only the selected offices different. Still, people got processed through and, immediately, one of the issues that came to light is that people were getting ranked differently. Also, some offices were doing meet-and-greets (a.k.a. competency verification interviews). Then the meet-and-greets were discontinued for a while. Postings became either HQ or field office postings, with all field offices with vacancies being processed in one lump group. Panel interviews with IAs were conducted either in DC or in the field offices. Personnel who passed the interviews were passed forward and personnel who tanked the interviews were reviewed (to make sure there was a legitimate reason for dropping someone from further consideration). COs were offered at different points in the process at different times. The procedure for now is:

Apply via the Website/QuickHire. Cutoff points are in place and applications which exceed the cutoff point are forwarded for interview consideration. As with everything, it takes time to figure out which field offices need to do which interviews. Standard questions during the panel interviews are asked, and, interviews should be done by the same panel (although, in larger field offices and headquarters situations multiple panels are used, though with a consistent composition). If they get past the interview, the candidate should be asked for a SF-86 and subjected to the PSI, poly and pee tests. Pass those and you may get your conditional offer while your background starts. Once the background is done, your name goes in front of a panel and offices can review the high points of an application on a spreadsheet and identify which applications they want to review in depth. Copies are made and distributed, which, after sufficient time to review, goes to the hiring panel where specific selections are made. The final offer is then extended and a start date/salary negotiated and off you go.

Of course, by this time next year, the whole process will have changed, with testing being implemented, and inprocessing taking place at the Academy, rather than the office where you're being hired.

It's confusing, frustrating, annoying and a hundred other things. Not just for you but for the people trying to do the hiring. Let me give you an example - the person responsible for overseeing the hiring for all IAs can't see the QuickHire results in an electronic form...it's all paper applications which are filed. Why? Can't get an answer from the folks who process the paperwork on the adminstrative side (non-DI folks). Some applications, which have a QuickHire coversheet attached to them are reported as not being able to be found in the QuickHire system. Why? Wish they knew - it's as frustrating for the DI people as it is for you. Folks all over get calls asking where their application stands. That means a lot more time spent tracking down individual applications, rather than moving the system forward, but it's necessary, because we don't want to lose any more good candidates than we already do in the process. Everyone wants IAs yesterday, but many offices decline to make their good IAs available for conducting interviews. It ain't perfect, but I know the folks they've got working on this and they are exasperated with the system and the limitations they're faced with and are trying to change it. Patience is the keyword here...there is a lot of hiring to be done and pressure to get it done yesterday. The more you call, the more things slow down because people have to chase answers (that don't change the situation of the applicant) rather than fix problems.

It's what I'm seeing here on the inside and maybe it will help you understand why things are the way they are.

[electra1978]

Hi. I noticed that the IA position for my FO already closed, but the position for the Supervisory IA is still open. Would it be reasonable to assume that they would first hire the supervisor and then the analysts later on?

I saw as part of the job description of the Supervisory IA that he/she will be in charge of proposing and implementing projects.....

[Ellington]

Hell-o,

I was reading Buman's posts on the steps that are being taken to hire IA's. When I was called for an interview, the representative at Tampa FO told me to complete the SF-86 (3 items I was not suppose to answer) and bring the form to the interview. The funniest thing was that when I got the call from HQ offering a CO, on the voicemail message the representative said my first and last name, but at the end of the message, she called me by my middle name, which was a bit strange, because only my family and some of my friends call me by my middle name. I was thinking, did they already start the background investigation? I haven't got calls from those listed on my SF-86 telling me that the FBI called, but I really don't know what to think of it.

I am still waiting for the call from the Tampa FO on the other requirements. But in the meantime, I try to keep myself busy so that I won’t think about it too much. But after reading the Buman’s post that passing the Poly, Urinalysis, PSI and BI will not constitute the end of the application process, I must admit that I am a bit worried because the fate of my application is with those that will determine whether or not my skills can be utilized for this agency. But despite that, my family and I are so elated that the FBI is interested in me.

[electra1978]

Hell-o,

I was reading Buman's posts on the steps that are being taken to hire IA's. When I was called for an interview, the representative at Tampa FO told me to complete the SF-86 (3 items I was not suppose to answer) and bring the form to the interview. The funniest thing was that when I got the call from HQ offering a CO, on the voicemail message the representative said my first and last name, but at the end of the message, she called me by my middle name, which was a bit strange, because only my family and some of my friends call me by my middle name. I was thinking, did they already start the background investigation? I haven't got calls from those listed on my SF-86 telling me that the FBI called, but I really don't know what to think of it.

I am still waiting for the call from the Tampa FO on the other requirements. But in the meantime, I try to keep myself busy so that I won’t think about it too much. But after reading the Buman’s post that passing the Poly, Urinalysis, PSI and BI will not constitute the end of the application process, I must admit that I am a bit worried because the fate of my application is with those that will determine whether or not my skills can be utilized for this agency. But despite that, my family and I are so elated that the FBI is interested in me.

That's so awesome you've made it this far in the process. Your family must be so proud of you. I know it must be harder for those with spouses and children to consider to go through the process especially if it means uprooting them to a new location. Keep the faith and I'm sure things will work out!

[sigepuofu]

Thanks you Sigepuofu for offering hope. My AC talked about my starting in May and that came and went and now she's talking about my starting in June. June is half over and I haven't heard from her in a while. The 27th would be the 4th false start. I've avoided turning down other offers so far, but I don't know how long I can keep dodging other, more "credible" offers. I really want this job--intel work is very rewarding, but intel combined with law enforcement offers a sense of completion that other assignments don't. I hope this works out. ;)

That's a tough situation you're in. Right after the Bureau offered me a position, I got offered a position by another government agency that paid a little more. I ended up taking the Bureau job for a lot of the intangibles you described.

That being said, I wouldn't dodge those other offers forever. I know how much you want to work for the Bureau, but you can't afford to put your life on hold waiting. I mean, this is your life we're talking about. If an opportunity comes up with another company that would really be good for you, you might have to take it-remember, unless you sign a service agreement, you can always back out of an offer. (not recommended, but still possible).

At the end of the day, you just have to ask yourself what is best for you (and if you're married, for your family). For your sake, I hope that this ends up being the Bureau. But, you have to weigh that against the other opportunity that presents itself. I don't envy you this decision-I only had to make it for one other offer, and it sounds like you have quite a few to deal with.

Good luck, things will work out in time.

[sigepuofu]

Hi. I noticed that the IA position for my FO already closed, but the position for the Supervisory IA is still open. Would it be reasonable to assume that they would first hire the supervisor and then the analysts later on?

I saw as part of the job description of the Supervisory IA that he/she will be in charge of proposing and implementing projects.....

I've only been in my unit for a little while, but the differences between a supervisory IA and a regular IA are fairly apparent.

A supervisory IA is in charge of projects at the group level. They work with the individual IAs and other personnel to create the projects, and make sure that they are satisfying the requirements of the customer. They also work closely with the Unit Chief to ensure the overall quality of the product, and ensure that what the product is saying/doing is in line with FBI policy and the overall purpose of the unit. Some Unit Chiefs work very hands-on with the products, so the SIA doesn't have as much responsibility. Others are very hands-off, and the SIA has more responsibility/flexibility.

I could be wrong, but that's what I've gleaned from the few weeks I've been on shift. Seems to be a efficient and productive system.

As for all the people who are waiting, all I can say is be patient. I know its frustrating, but trust me, there is hope. Yes, the FBI is a rather large bureaucracy (trust me, you deal with it once you're in) but they also are working very hard to try and get you on board.

take heart in these words-someone close to me told me this when I moved out to DC (needless to say, I was freaked about the move, finding a place, etc.)

Question-"How do you eat an elephant?"
Answer-"One bite at a time".

So that's my sage wisdom for the day. Good luck to all.

[BuMan]

Hi. I noticed that the IA position for my FO already closed, but the position for the Supervisory IA is still open. Would it be reasonable to assume that they would first hire the supervisor and then the analysts later on?

I saw as part of the job description of the Supervisory IA that he/she will be in charge of proposing and implementing projects.....

Separate hiring processes. The IA hiring process is for all field offices and applicants are assigned to whichever field office selects them (and has a vacancy). The SIA positions are for specific vacancies. Since there are a very limited number of SIA positions available; since they have higher requirements than the entry level positions (therefore, fewer people are likely to be qualified for a GS-14 SIA position than a base level IA position); and since the QuickHire postings are also used for competitive promotions within the FBI, they are posted separately. An SIA will supervise multiple IAs, so it's not a case of the chicken and the egg.

With regard to proposing and implementing projects - SIAs are expected to work within the guidelines of the FBI Intelligence Program - ensuring that priority intelligence requirements are addressed by employees under their purview and prioritized appropriately. That helps to avoid people running off on wild goose chases on irrelevant matters while ignoring a high priority matter.

[thewaiter]

Separate hiring processes. The IA hiring process is for all field offices and applicants are assigned to whichever field office selects them (and has a vacancy). The SIA positions are for specific vacancies. Since there are a very limited number of SIA positions available; since they have higher requirements than the entry level positions (therefore, fewer people are likely to be qualified for a GS-14 SIA position than a base level IA position); and since the QuickHire postings are also used for competitive promotions within the FBI, they are posted separately. An SIA will supervise multiple IAs, so it's not a case of the chicken and the egg.

With regard to proposing and implementing projects - SIAs are expected to work within the guidelines of the FBI Intelligence Program - ensuring that priority intelligence requirements are addressed by employees under their purview and prioritized appropriately. That helps to avoid people running off on wild goose chases on irrelevant matters while ignoring a high priority matter.

From what i have read on this site and news, IA field is not quite as promising promotionally. Is it correct? Can you tell us the hiring process for SIAs? requirements? In addition, for IAs, what is the promotional process?

Lets say i start at GS 09.

After one year, i should be promoted to GS 11 due to one more year of experience? Am i correct?

How long does it take to be promoted to GS 12, 13, etc?

I know that i sound a little cocky but I am quite interested in knowing the benefits and future opportunities... Could I be transfered to be a SA or SSA or other supervisory position?

[eff-bee-eye]

From what i have read on this site and news, IA field is not quite as promising promotionally. Is it correct? Can you tell us the hiring process for SIAs? requirements? In addition, for IAs, what is the promotional process?

Lets say i start at GS 09.

After one year, i should be promoted to GS 11 due to one more year of experience? Am i correct?

How long does it take to be promoted to GS 12, 13, etc?

I know that i sound a little cocky but I am quite interested in knowing the benefits and future opportunities... Could I be transfered to be a SA or SSA or other supervisory position?

Waiter, if you start as a 9 then yes, you would likely be able to get your 11 after one full year as a 9 doing competent work, and then after a year as an 11 you would likely get your 12. From there, things might slow down a little. For example ONLY, it might take you 2-5 years to get your 13, and then 2-5 more years to get your 14. The 13/14 IA jobs are pretty tough to get right now, because you have to be in a Unit where you can justify that the work you are doing is at that 13/14 level, and there are a lot of Units where the work just isn't there. That is one of the reasons why the Directorate of Intelligence (DI) office is working on a IA transfer policy to allow analysts to move to another Unit/Office to gain more experience and more responsibilities to allow for greater advancement and promotion potential. Generally speaking, it is a lot easier to get a 13/14 job at Headquarters in DC than it is in the field offices. This may begin to change, but there will always be a much greater % of analysts at HQ, so your chances there will probably always be better for advancement, both for analysts AND agents. Also, there are two tracks to advancing as an IA, becoming a subject-matter-expert (SME), or advancing through a general management track (SIA).

Now, you asked about transferring to a supervisory agent position? SSA's are GS-14 agents that have been regular Special Agents in the field offices for usually at least 5 years. If you are an analyst, and you decide you want to be an agent, you have to apply online just like everyone else, and compete against ALL applicants from the public as well. Being a current FBI employee MAY help in some regards, such as the experience you gained being an IA for a few years, knowledge of the FBI, etc, but it is still a very competitive process and the FBI will not show you any favoritism over the extremely qualified applicants from the general public.

[thewaiter]

Thanks eff-bee-eye for your response! That's not bad. If you looked at a University level or in the Industry, it takes a lot longer to be promoted in such a supervisory role especially the gained salary. I think anyone would agree to take 10 years to get to the GS14 level. I wish i could talk to someone in person in regards to the job. I have so many questions. If i continue asking, people might be mad at me. :)

Dont' mind one more? Are IAs armed?

[BuMan]

Dont' mind one more? Are IAs armed?

No, IAs are not armed as a part of their duty. Also, due to restrictions on possessing weapons on federal property, they cannot carry a weapon onto federal property even if their state licenses them for CCW.

[eff-bee-eye]

Thanks eff-bee-eye for your response! That's not bad. If you looked at a University level or in the Industry, it takes a lot longer to be promoted in such a supervisory role especially the gained salary. I think anyone would agree to take 10 years to get to the GS14 level. I wish i could talk to someone in person in regards to the job. I have so many questions. If i continue asking, people might be mad at me. :)

Dont' mind one more? Are IAs armed?

No problem. The point I was trying to stress, though, is not to expect any exact level of progression, as it can vary greatly on many factors such as where you are working, what new policies come out for transfers/promotions, etc. There is no guarantee that you will be a 14 in X amount of years. There are VERY few analysts in the field offices right now that are more than a 12. Only recently has there been some room for a few 13/14's sprinkled here and there in the field.

But just make sure you know that an Intelligence Analyst and a Special Agent are two VERY different careers. Yes, there are some similarities in recruiting, training, etc, but one is a law enforcement job, and one is a law enforcement "support" job. Analysts are not criminal investigators, do not make arrests, conduct search warrants, and for the most part do not conduct interviews or testify in court. (There are a few instances where an IA may assist in an interview or testify in court if they are a subject matter expert and in a technical field) An analyst rides a desk for 8 hours a day. An agent gets out into the field, covers leads, etc. Could go on and on, but I hope you see that these two positions do not cross over into each other very much.

[bad_timing]

Leave it to me to break the rhythm with another off-the-wall posting. This will probably put some of those applying at ease. I was made a CO last week and I am currently impatiently waiting for a call to do my PSI (the waiting is absolutely awful). I have read a lot of postings and I am very impressed by the credentials that most of you have.

I must admit that I was very concerned about my chances of getting in after reading about all the people with PhD's, MA's, LE, and I/A experience. For those of you out there who only have a Bachelors and no previous I/A experience (like me), don't give up!! It can happen.

I know that the poly cannot be specifically addressed in detail but if anyone has any real general advice I would appreciate it. Thanks!!

[bad_timing]

Sorry about the back to back submissions. When I was made a CO, the HR Person at HQ told me that they must have of their newly hired I/A's in by 1 October.

A ridiculous question I should probably know the answer to...I do a significant amount of weight training and I use creatine after each session. Does the use of the above supplement reflect negatively on a drug test? I know it's a dumb question but I have never taken a drug test before so I don't know all of the "ins and outs."

[eff-bee-eye]

No probs with creatine or protein supplements. They are legal. Just no horse-strength steroids in your rump please.

Just relax, be honest, relax, be honest. You should do fine.

[bad_timing]

Thanks for the responses eff. :) :)

[tdstolz]

Dear Bad Timing,

Congratulations--don't give up, indeed! This is probably the best time (in recent history, at any rate) to come into the FBI. The FBI is under a microscope right now, and the upshot of the recent commissions (i.e., 9/11 and WMD) as well as the related congressional mandates means that the FBI is under a lot of pressure to get people hired. Have a look at the recent audit from the DOJ, The FBI's Efforts to Hire, Train, and Retain Intelligence Analysts: http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/FBI/a0520/final.pdf. This will give you a look at what's going on.

I'm currently two months into my background. I got my CO in April in DC where I also did my PSI, poly, urinalysis, and fingerprinting. I had lunch with a couple of IAs I know in the Milwaukee FO last week, and they said I should get my EOD in a couple of weeks. So things are moving pretty quickly for me and I am not alone. I've been told that the FBI is on fast-forward, so hold on tightly!

Cheers,
Travis

[tdstolz]

Dear Bad Timing,

One thing about the poly. Beyond what Eff-Bee-Eye said (and really, that's all there is to it), listen carefully to the polygrapher's instructions. Also, sit up straight and sit still, and breathe evenly. Not too deeply, though--there were a couple of times where my breaths were too deep, and that apparently screwed things up a bit. "I know you run marathons," he said to me, "but try not to breathe so deeply." Forewarned, forearmed!

Cheers,
Travis

[achefswife]

Sorry about the back to back submissions. When I was made a CO, the HR Person at HQ told me that they must have of their newly hired I/A's in by 1 October.

A ridiculous question I should probably know the answer to...I do a significant amount of weight training and I use creatine after each session. Does the use of the above supplement reflect negatively on a drug test? I know it's a dumb question but I have never taken a drug test before so I don't know all of the "ins and outs."

I assumed that they would be trying to get lots of IA in before Oct. 1 because they want to "beat the buzzer" on the fiscal year. It's amazing how fast people move when they think they could lose some money. I just hope this race ends with me crossing the finish line as well.

Question: What happens at a PSI vs. the "regular" interview with the standard questions that everyone gets? Is this simply going in for the poly, pee, and drug or something different?

[achefswife]

Leave it to me to break the rhythm with another off-the-wall posting. This will probably put some of those applying at ease. I was made a CO last week and I am currently impatiently waiting for a call to do my PSI (the waiting is absolutely awful). I have read a lot of postings and I am very impressed by the credentials that most of you have.

I must admit that I was very concerned about my chances of getting in after reading about all the people with PhD's, MA's, LE, and I/A experience. For those of you out there who only have a Bachelors and no previous I/A experience (like me), don't give up!! It can happen.

I know that the poly cannot be specifically addressed in detail but if anyone has any real general advice I would appreciate it. Thanks!!

What is your timeline? When did you apply, hear back, and all that stuff?

[bad_timing]

I was interviewed on 7 June and I was given my CO on 13 June. I was told by HQ that I would be getting the call for my PSI sometime this week because my local FO (Detroit) needs to have them done by the end of this month. I hope this helps! :)

[achefswife]

I was interviewed on 7 June and I was given my CO on 13 June. I was told by HQ that I would be getting the call for my PSI sometime this week because my local FO (Detroit) needs to have them done by the end of this month. I hope this helps! :)

When did you apply? Did they say whether or not Detroit has openings?

[bad_timing]

I applied back in April of this year and they did not say whether or Detroit had any openings. In fact, interviewing panel told me that it is very possible that I may need to move depending on the needs of the Bureau. The only thing they asked me that had to do with demographics was the basic, "If you had to pick three locations of work what would they be?"

I chose Detroit (because I live in MI and because not many other people want to come here), Chicago, and DC.

[forms]

I chose Detroit (because I live in MI and because not many other people want to come here), Chicago, and DC.

Hehehehe, I chose Detroit as my second choice. I'm currently living in Ft Lauderdale, but I grew up in B'ham and lived up to a year ago in Roch. Hills. So you can't be too sure, LOL. I chose Cleveland as my third place--not for any fondness of the place, but because my husband's family comes from there. Now that's a place I imagine doesn't get too many requests. :ahh!:

I hope you get Detroit though, I think it's probably a pretty good place for intel and terrorism work with the Canadian border and the immigrant population, so the work will be interesting. Good luck.

So what is the difference between the PSI and the regular meet and greet interview?

[tdstolz]

The PSI (personnel security interview)--mine, at any rate--was essentially an oral SF-86. The SA with whom I had my PSI had my SF-86 in front of her along with a standard list of national security questions, and we simply went through the latter (they were all yes/no questions not unlike what is on the SF-86--it was a checklist, really). She also looked over my SF-86, to see how complete it was and if I needed to amend anything.

That's about it. My PSI lasted about an hour. It was very casual, no problem. The PSI is not a "meet and greet," nor is it anything for which you can--or even need to--study or otherwise prepare. The PSI is also a good opportunity to get anything out on the table that you want the investigators to find out about before your BI begins. Like the SF-86 (and the poly, too), the PSI is an opportunity to demonstrate your cooperation and candor.

I hope this is helpful.

Cheers,
Travis

[achefswife]

Thanks. Sometimes all the different stages tends to get confusing.

[achefswife]

I applied back in April of this year and they did not say whether or Detroit had any openings. In fact, interviewing panel told me that it is very possible that I may need to move depending on the needs of the Bureau. The only thing they asked me that had to do with demographics was the basic, "If you had to pick three locations of work what would they be?"

I chose Detroit (because I live in MI and because not many other people want to come here), Chicago, and DC.

Well it looks like they are moving pretty rapidly with your application compared to all the 1-2 yr long processes that you read about on this site. I applied in March and interviewed the day you got your CO so I hope it moves just as fast with me. I haven't heard anything back yet, but I understand that patience is everything.

[PHU]

Thanks. Sometimes all the different stages tends to get confusing.

I guess we can say that "FBI is unique: all cases are different." That's why we all want to work for them. No day is a typical day. Ok, i need to stop.

[bad_timing]

;) Still waiting for a call from my FO regarding my PSI. I hate being impatient. BuMan, how long does it generally take after a CO has been made for them to contact someone about coming in for their poly, f-prints, etc?

[diablo3305]

;) Still waiting for a call from my FO regarding my PSI. I hate being impatient. BuMan, how long does it generally take after a CO has been made for them to contact someone about coming in for their poly, f-prints, etc?


In my case, it was about 3 weeks. I did my PSI about a month and a half after my CO, but my BI had already started. The wait is a pain, but its what you have to do. Right now, I'm just hoping my application is actually moving forward, I haven't heard a peep since my PSI and Poly. I was hoping to see a check on my credit or something. Its unnerving not to know if its at least moving along. Just hoping the day will come.

[PHU]

I wish there was a place where we could check the progress of our BI. I know that the investigators have a model that they use. It would be awesome if the investigators called us once every two weeks or 3 or 4 to give us the progress and what is left. I am so tempted to call them up, but as many have recommended not to due their busy tasks on hands.

[electra1978]

It's so tempting to call up to try and get some definitive answers, but I know they must be completely overwhelmed, and I have to trust in the system especially if I want to work in it.

[tdstolz]

Hello, everyone.

I am over two months into my BI for an IA position (HQ). I have been told my BI is "wrapping up" and hope to get my FO next month. My wife and I have already been scouting out places to live on the Internet. My question is whether the FBI provides any relocation assistance (e.g., house-hunting)? I'm sure SAs alone move around quite a bit, so does the FBI offer anything for its employees? Thanks!

Yours,
Travis

[OrangeAlum2003]

It's so tempting to call up to try and get some definitive answers, but I know they must be completely overwhelmed, and I have to trust in the system especially if I want to work in it.

Yeah, you'd like to think so. Unfortunately, I think that my infatuation with the FBI is more like a bad relationship at times than a true quest for a meaningful career path. I have no doubt that I would enjoy the work were I to actually enter on duty, but I have no confidence in their ability to objectively identify and swiftly process well qualified candidates. The process is supposed to be a completely objective evaluation of skills and abilities, and I haven't found that to be true. Without taking anything away from any of those whom I have met or spoken to, I can't see any reason that I wouldn't at least be invited for an interview. Maybe it will happen, but seeing all of the activity makes me believe, and I think justifiably so, that I've been left behind in this round.

The FBI's inability to efficiently process BI's is also another sore point for many on this board. Thankfully, I do not share those sentiments at this point because I haven't gotten that far. I do have a friend who recently won a Presidential Management Fellowship (www.pmf.gov), a prestigious appointment that very few graduate students across the country are given. He was selected by the FBI at the PMF Career Fair to become an IA and began the BI process. As a PMF you only have one year to find a position before your PMF expires, at which point you're on your own. He was supposedly finishing up his BI, which was also toward the end of his year-long appointment. During an interview, in his effort to be completely candid, he had mentioned that a few years ago he had bumped into a car in a parking lot and didn't leave a note (not a good thing, but certainly not a disqualification in my mind). He has no criminal record and no history of drug use. He was told flatly that he was being disqualified for that. Consequently his PMF appointment expired and he lost the IA opportunity. Congratulations to all of you who have passed the BI, but I have just seen too man examples of situations like this to be able to put much faith in the "system" if you will. It's good for those who get in but a nightmare for those who get hung up in the process.

[sigepuofu]

Hi Travis,

I'm sorry to say this, but no, the Bureau does not provide a house-hunting trip. They'll pay to ship your stuff and pay for airfare to move you and your wife from your home to your new duty station, but that's it. I just went through this, so I know how you feel. Sorry.

Anyway, keep fighting the good fight-

sigepuofu

[bad_timing]

Well, at least we know that the drop dead date for all new I/A's is 1 October. I hate to rush the summer away but...

[eff-bee-eye]

Hi Travis,

I'm sorry to say this, but no, the Bureau does not provide a house-hunting trip. They'll pay to ship your stuff and pay for airfare to move you and your wife from your home to your new duty station, but that's it. I just went through this, so I know how you feel. Sorry.

Anyway, keep fighting the good fight-

sigepuofu

But Travis, once you are on board, then yes....things like house-hunting trips, temporary housing allowances, storage allowances, closing costs on home, etc are all covered. So if you ever get a transfer as an IA (or SA), you will be taken care of nicely.

[tdstolz]

Thanks! I wasn't really asking about a house-hunting trip, though, but rather about whether the FBI assists in finding a place. Are there, say, realtors with whom the FBI works, or realtors who like to work with SAs or IAs? Or federal employees in general? Thanks again.

Cheers,
Travis

[PHU]

Well, at least we know that the drop dead date for all new I/A's is 1 October. I hate to rush the summer away but...

so if we were interviewed and the BI is in progress, the news should arrive before Oct. 1? That's pretty good.

Out of curiosity, I am still a student. Anyone knows if they would let me finish out my semester if a position was offered? I am about to start my research/dissertation this coming August, i don't want to leave on a bad note in case i might want to come back later to finish up my phd.

[achefswife]

Well, at least we know that the drop dead date for all new I/A's is 1 October. I hate to rush the summer away but...

I'm wondering what is the cut-off date for them to have gotten started on your BI to ensure that you get in by Oct.1. I've interviewed, but nothing else yet. No CO, PSI, poly, pee or anything.... granted it's only been a week since my interview. I guess it is possible if they call me early July to have everything wrapped up by Oct. Does having a small field office do your BI give you better possibilities of it moving faster than having HQ conduct it? The FO I interviewed with is ranked somewhere in the 50s as far as size goes.

[achefswife]

so if we were interviewed and the BI is in progress, the news should arrive before Oct. 1? That's pretty good.

Out of curiosity, I am still a student. Anyone knows if they would let me finish out my semester if a position was offered? I am about to start my research/dissertation this coming August, i don't want to leave on a bad note in case i might want to come back later to finish up my phd.

I was informed by someone on the board that you could pick from a few entry dates. Hope that helps you out.

[CPD-Dispatcher]

Well, since the other thread has been closed :o (I am unsure as to the reasons why 250 is the magic number, but oh well, I'll defer to the moderators).

The reason we close the threads after so long is that they get so large that people searching the board, don't want to spend hours reading over a thread. 250 is not a magic number , however it is the number when we took notice to how large the tread is. Now this thread is over 200 post and over a month old. I myself would not want to read 200 plus post to a thread. So with that being said, this thread is closed, and you are more than welcome to start a new thread on this topic if you like.