Makarov .380 question... potential for misfire?

[GTgrad02]

I carry a Makarov .380 (Russian) b/c it is highly concealable, reliable, and packs a good punch.

However, I have recently noticed some problems. When I chamber a round from the clip, I noticed that the firing pin slightly taps the primer on the round when the slide slams forward (yikes!). While using some "Federal" JHPs w/ aluminum casings, the dimple was more pronounced (vs/ Brass).

Naturally, this concerned me! However, I have never had a jam/misfire, even after 500+ rounds back to back. (I get a little freaky at the range sometimes).

After further examination of the weapon & drawings, I noticed that the firing pin is free-floating in the pin tunnel, and may travel unhindered as much as 1/8 inch (+/-). The design does not call for any type of retention spring for the firing pin. thus, if it is a flaw, it may be a design flaw (Darn Ruskies... Da!).

Any ideas? Is this normal (I doubt it)? Is there a solution? (Buy a new gun!?) Tips, suggestions, all-knowing sagacious spatterings... all are welcome.

Thanks,
GT

[Kahuna5150]

The Makarov is a long produced and often used firearm. I think one of the reasons it has been so popular here in the USA (and around the world) is due to the price. I'm guessing you got the gun for a steal compared to other similar brands (Glock, Sig, S&W, Etc). You often do get what you pay for. Some Makarovs are fantastic, others are not so good. Same is true with Sig, Glock, etc, but I would guess the bad ones in the bunch are far and few between compared to some of our imports of Russian, or other lower end firearms.

If you are being given a signal (primer strikes when putting one in the chamber) then I would perk up and listen. Have an armorer who knows about Makarov's look at it, or better yet... If you're using this as an off-duty weapon you may have to use to defend your life... I would spend the extra bucks and get a mainline weapon (Sig, Glock, etc).

Many departments won't allow for the Makarov or other "off brand" weapons to be carried on or off-duty.

Kahuna

[GTgrad02]

The Makarov is a long produced and often used firearm. I think one of the reasons it has been so popular here in the USA (and around the world) is due to the price. I'm guessing you got the gun for a steal compared to other similar brands (Glock, Sig, S&W, Etc). You often do get what you pay for. Some Makarovs are fantastic, others are not so good. Same is true with Sig, Glock, etc, but I would guess the bad ones in the bunch are far and few between compared to some of our imports of Russian, or other lower end firearms.

If you are being given a signal (primer strikes when putting one in the chamber) then I would perk up and listen. Have an armorer who knows about Makarov's look at it, or better yet... If you're using this as an off-duty weapon you may have to use to defend your life... I would spend the extra bucks and get a mainline weapon (Sig, Glock, etc).

Many departments won't allow for the Makarov or other "off brand" weapons to be carried on or off-duty.

Kahuna

often times, the primer strike is little more than a scratch... it is very faint, and the pin is very light... prob. titanium.. not sure though.. very little momentum, but very strong. with the steel hammer behind it, the round is loose.. but other than that.. only probs w. cheap ammo.

But it is a big neon light... nothing will perk you up like a unexpected dimple in the primer (eek). :acop: :eek:

[ATFpoa]

Realize that a Mak was designed to be a military sidearm, customarily carried with an empty chamber.

I don't have my books with me now, but I am pretty certain that there is no firing pin safety or "block" to prevent the firing pin from moving forward under inertia. (Imagine hitting a telephone pole head-on with your car. You are the firing pin. With a safety belt/firing pin block, you stop before hitting the windshield/primer, without one, you just hope you arent going that fast!)

The same principle applies to dropping the pistol on the muzzle. The gun stops, the firing pin keeps on going.

I would also suspect that the firing pin spring is weak, and allowing the firing pin to travel further than it normally would.

In any case, there is a reason that Makarovs aren't issued by...well, anyone west of the former iron curtain. There are many SAFER, better handuns out there. Scrape up some cash and buy a modern, safe pistol. Leave the Mak for range days. Scrimp on something else.

[UncleSugar]

It's a Russian Mak and it has the .380 barrel, not the 9x18 Makarov barrel? Is that the original barrel or did you swap them out?

Just curious about the barrels, but regardless I wouldn't carry that thing. For a gun that was available for $125 - $175 for a long time they are kind of neat if you're a collector, but there are safer designs out there for use as a carry gun.

[rzaruba]

I carry a Makarov .380 (Russian) b/c it is highly concealable, reliable, and packs a good punch.

However, I have recently noticed some problems. When I chamber a round from the clip, I noticed that the firing pin slightly taps the primer on the round when the slide slams forward (yikes!). While using some "Federal" JHPs w/ aluminum casings, the dimple was more pronounced (vs/ Brass).



Wow. Sounds like the original Glock 19's back in 1988. I had dimpling problems but Glock denied there was a problem. Funny, weapon came back with a new trigger bar.

A friend of mine shot his bed with one a few months later. Shortly thereafter they came out with a retrofit.

Safest way to carry yours is with an empty chamber. Even if you put it into battery slowly, you still have to make sure you don't drop it.

[GTgrad02]

I would also suspect that the firing pin spring is weak, and allowing the firing pin to travel further than it normally would.


There is no firing pin spring...

Thanks for all the tips. I was of the mindset, "if there isn't one chambered, why carry at all?" Now, I realize I NEED to rack one 1st until I can scrape up some $$$ (or run it past Mrs. CFO, know what I mean?).

[Lupey]

The Mak does not have a firing pin spring. No need for one and it would just be another part. I believe the Mak has the fewest parts of any pistol on the market (Glock included). I have never heard of a Mak discharging by the firing pin striking the primer on its own (and I dont think twice about mine with one in the chamber). Also it passed the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia gun test & is an approved firearm. An PRK has some of the most ridiculous gun laws in the country.

Your best bet would be to ask the fine Makaholics at http://www.gunboards.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3 I carry mine alternatively with my Norinco 1911 .45, I have never worried about the firing pin striking the primer with enough force to cause it to ignite. As far as the scratches on the primer, I would go ask the makaholics.

[GTgrad02]

The Mak does not have a firing pin spring. No need for one and it would just be another part. I believe the Mak has the fewest parts of any pistol on the market (Glock included). I have never heard of a Mak discharging by the firing pin striking the primer on its own (and I dont think twice about mine with one in the chamber). Also it passed the Peoples Republic of Kalifornia gun test & is an approved firearm. An PRK has some of the most ridiculous gun laws in the country.

Your best bet would be to ask the fine Makaholics at http://www.gunboards.com/forums/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=3 I carry mine alternatively with my Norinco 1911 .45, I have never worried about the firing pin striking the primer with enough force to cause it to ignite. As far as the scratches on the primer, I would go ask the makaholics.

Thanks for the gunboards... I have a pic posted there, if you're interested.

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=128824

[Time Traveller]

Being somewhat of a gun nut, I will tell you, with great certainty, that the Makarov is nothing more than a fishing weight, and potentially not a good one of those. It will fire, it will do the job (potentially) but if I were looking to carry a firearm for backup, it would not be the Mak. There are exceptional weapons, highly concealable on the market. Some Sigs, Glocks, Walthers, heck even some Brownings. But the Mak would not be it for me. You have identified one of many problems with the Mak. It is a sheet metal and wire spring wonder, yes it works, but it was designed to be mass produced, the Russians have NEVER prided themselves on Quality. So take that into consideration. The dimpling of the primer would be of considerable concern to me and I would have it checked out by a quality gunsmith. There is no replacement for having a high quality gunsmith go over the weapon.

If you need a backup weapon that is small, get a Walther or a Sig. They are designed better and have quality control that the Mak just doesn't have.

Good luck

TT

[GTgrad02]

TT... I have been advised this is a consequence of the "free floating" firing pin... the AR-15 has the same thing, and occaissionally will tap the primer. I have also been advised that it was designed for Russian ammo, on which the casing and primer cap are constructed of stronger materials (good for the Mak, sucks if the primer doesn't pop in a pinch).

True, the Russians aren't for quality, nor is any Commy system. But, with the right ammo and my marksmanship ( :D ), it has one hell of a 1-shot stopping power. :banger:

It is a very reliable, functional piece. But gun-snobs beware, this one is not for you :D and it is easy as hell to field strip! very few parts...

I have also been advised that the pin does not retain sufficient momentum (Mass x Velocity) to ignite the primer unless the hammer drives it home.

[Time Traveller]

TT... I have been advised this is a consequence of the "free floating" firing pin... the AR-15 has the same thing, and occaissionally will tap the primer. I have also been advised that it was designed for Russian ammo, on which the casing and primer cap are constructed of stronger materials (good for the Mak, sucks if the primer doesn't pop in a pinch)..

Freel floating firing pin is fine, however, anything that taps the primer cap is bad. I would be very cautious about this and be aware that you could have an accidental discharge when the slide goes home. I still despise the Makaraov's

True, the Russians aren't for quality, nor is any Commy system. But, with the right ammo and my marksmanship ( :D ), it has one hell of a 1-shot stopping power. :banger: .

Only James Bond was successful with a small weapon, and he used a 32 acp, which is a better cartridge then the 9mm kurz or the .380. Give me a 10 or a 40 and one-shot stopping power is a little more realistic. The 9mm is a wounding caliber, it was designed for cyclic rate, not stopping power. Put 50 rounds in the general direction and the odds say you'll hit something. The .380 is actullay a smidgen better then the 9, but still way underpowered for a true stopping weapon.

It is a very reliable, functional piece. But gun-snobs beware, this one is not for you :D and it is easy as hell to field strip! very few parts....

Your Makarov's may be realiable, but they are cheap, cheap, cheap and as a rule CHEAP denotes pour quality. Ask a Russian, they'll tell you.

I have also been advised that the pin does not retain sufficient momentum (Mass x Velocity) to ignite the primer unless the hammer drives it home.

All well and good, until it goes bang when you drive the slide home.

As you can tell, I dislike the Makarov's, never have like them, never will. I have the resources (thankfully) to buy anything that I want. If the Makarov is good for you, then stick with it, but be aware that there and dozens of better made weapons on the market.

My opinion on weapons. . . When it comes to guns, buy the absolute best that you can afford. I'm a SNOB that way. I have my favorites, 45 acp, Colt 1911, nothing like a lead Chips Ahoy traveling 900 FPS, I also like the Browning High Power. If your buying a bolt action rifle, Steyer makes a pretty nifty one, scopes Swarovski. Shotguns, Browning Superposed, Winchester 21's, Benelli's, Winchester Model 12's or the Browning remakes. Lever action Rifles, Winchester, the older the better, 94's, 92's. Military Rifles, H & K or the FN FAL.

These are just my thoughts, not Gospel, but I do like them.

TT