View Full Version : Mis-feed contributes to officers death.
Kegan30317
10-27-2005, 16:39
From the Huntsville (Alabama) paper.....
Slain Officers Berettta jammed. (http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/index.ssf?/base/news/113040473268060.xml&coll=1)
Looks like his weapon misfed after approx. 5 rounds. A tragedy no doubt. Remember those clearing drills during range time.
One of the smartest things our range master did was eliminating "alibi's" for people who had a jam, etc during annual qualification. In otherwords, if your gun jammed, you didn't get an automatic 'redo'. You cleared and finished the qualification round. I didn't like it when the rule first went into place, but a couple of years later when I had a mis-fed round and still scored 91/100; I have to admit I was pretty pleased with myself.
Condolences to this officers family. Let's take a lesson from his sacrifice.
1. Be profiecient with your equipment
2. Carry a back- up weapon.
We train like we fight, we fight like we train.
Also sad that some agencies still do not authorize backup weapons. With proper training and policy/guidelines in place, it is as waluable as the other equipment we carry everyday.
Looks like his weapon misfed after approx. 5 rounds. A tragedy no doubt. Remember those clearing drills during range time.
Not surprised.
One of the reasons lots of us went to the 229DAO after transition training was that the Berretta (besides being big) seemed to be very sensitive to whether your wrist was locked. We had lots of failures to feed and felt uncomfortable about a weapon in which the slide seemed to move in slow motion.
I guess we're just negative, because the VCR tape said it was good........
No such problems with the 229. In the eight plus years I have had it, never had a problem with it.
Backup or not, I don't think we're asking too much of a weapon when we ask that it be reliable.
Three lessons from that news article:
1. Don't carry a Beretta. Personally, I have seen them have several problems other brands are not susceptible to.
2. Practice those clearing drills (I'm not saying the officer messed up, not enough information).
3. Amnesty for the illegals is SUCH a GOOD IDEA.
I wonder if the Mexican government is already demanding the release of their international entrepreneur. If he gets the death penalty, look out. We can't upset our neighbor/friend/ally in the name of justice.
kennethm3
10-28-2005, 22:29
I'm sure that they won't be able to execute this guy because the consular notification wasn't made.
TheGreatGonzo
10-29-2005, 09:15
Three lessons from that news article:
1. Don't carry a Beretta. Personally, I have seen them have several problems other brands are not susceptible to.
I have to disagree. I have carried a Beretta with two different agencies and never had a single problem, nor did I observe any with other Officer's weapons. Most Beretta problems are related to after-market magazines, not the pistol itself. Of course, any pistol, if not cared for and maintained, can...and usually will...misfeed or malfunction somehow.
Gonzo
LA Express
10-29-2005, 09:43
I have to disagree. I have carried a Beretta with two different agencies and never had a single problem...
I agree that it's unfair to issue such a sweeping statement against a particular weapon. If it really were so unsafe/unreliable, there would be no Beretta. I know one or two prize-winning shooters in LAPD who swear by it and endorse it as a combat weapon. Plus, the Beretta has been around and has proven itself for quite awhile.
At the same time, having fired dozens and dozens of different pistols in a wide array of calibers, the Beretta, for me, was easily the clunkiest, gawkiest, most uncomfortable pistol in the bunch. While I've never had any misfeeds or jams with one, my marksmanship took a definite dip, which in my specific case makes it a lesser pistol. Not that this has anything to do with the original post--it's just my take on that particular weapon.
I have to disagree. I have carried a Beretta with two different agencies and never had a single problem, nor did I observe any with other Officer's weapons. Most Beretta problems are related to after-market magazines, not the pistol itself. Of course, any pistol, if not cared for and maintained, can...and usually will...misfeed or malfunction somehow.
Gonzo
Glad you guys pointed this out. I know several deputies that have carried the Beretta for years and swear by it. I have never had a problem with mine, and actually like it a lot.
Guns are like cars in a way. You'll have one person who swears by Fords and then a Chevy man who can't believe his ears. Why you would listen to anybody who says "XXX's are all terrible, never use them" I don't know.
TheGreatGonzo
10-29-2005, 10:32
I like the Beretta for uniformed, open carry. For concealed carry...and believe me, I know from experience :) ...it is definitely big and clunky. For me, however, it is an extremely accurate pistol and easy to shoot. I shot NRA Distinguished Pistol Master using a Beretta 96 with two broken fingers on my hand. That is one reason I'm kind of fond of the ol' Italian tomahawk!
Gonzo
Of course, any pistol, if not cared for and maintained, can...and usually will...misfeed or malfunction somehow...Most Beretta problems are related to after-market magazines, not the pistol itself
Gonzo
Not to turn this into a Beretta thread, but this is my point. There are other brands that are far more likely to stay up and running even if not cared for properly. The last time I worked a range qualification, one of our guys had trouble because he had not properly lubed the gun. His fault to be sure, but it probably would not have been an issue if he had a Glock or HK (our other two brands). Every time we go to the range, the PFI brings extra Berettas and spare parts. He doesn't have to do this with the others. I've seen frames crack, locking blocks crack, sights come off, takedown levers come off. They just are not holding up.
My first duty weapon was a Beretta 92, so I am a little nostalgic also. It was a pretty good gun. I liked the manual safety and wish some of those other brands that tend to be more reliable had such a feature. I just don't have as much confidence in its extended use. When the US military decided to replace the 45, Sig beat Beretta in performance testing. They just couldn't beat the price.
I would be surprised if a PD had their people carrying after-market magazines.
TheGreatGonzo
10-29-2005, 19:37
I love Sigs. I carry one and I'm a Sig Armorer. But, that being said, I see as many malfunctions with Sigs on our line as I used to see on the line with Berettas. I have been to Armorer school for both, instructed on both, and carried both, and I believe them to be of near equal quality and reliability. That being said, I still prefer Sigs over anything else.
Gonzo
DallasTX
10-30-2005, 11:55
I have had my 96D Beretta break(not jam) on me twice while at the range. Thank God it did not happen on a real shooting especially since we are not allowed to pack a BUG. But then again our Beretta's have an average age of 7-8 years with over 10,000 rounds through them.
I've seen more malfunctions and stoppages with Berettas than HK, SIG, & Glock combined. Berettas don't impress me. They have had numerous redesigns and parts replacements do to being a poorly designed gun. And yes, I am a Beretta, HK, SIG, and Glock armorer.
universible
11-04-2005, 23:08
I shot NRA Distinguished Pistol Master ...
You shot an NRA Distinguished Pistol Master?!? :2gun: :banger: :D
How badly was he hurt? :D
I'll disagree on the Beretta being a bad pistol. I carried a Beretta 92F on duty for several years and the only issue I ever had with it was its size. I can't remember ever having a malfunction with mine, and it remains the most accurate 9mm I have ever owned (including a P226 that is no slouch either).
I am specifically talking about the Beretta 96. Beretta didn't put any R&D into the development of the gun; all they did was blow the existing 92 up. While enlarging certain parts may be fine, but what Beretta did caused numerous problems with the stamped and cast parts used in the 96.
The Berettas are more susceptible to jams from faulty magazines; the lips on the magazines are a weaker design than compared to other brands that also use aluminum or steel mags.
I do love Beretta shotguns though; now those Italians know a thing or two about fine shotguns.
vBulletin® v3.6.8, Copyright ©2000-2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.