Shotgun--Slug vs. 00-buck, 0-buck

[India 127 Alpha]

I am recently the proud owner of a Remington 870 Express 18" Police Model :biggun1: , with all the bells and whistles, except the tac-light.

Inspired by the recent debate/ discussion on this forum on 9mm vs. .40 cal., I was wondering if there is a similar debate on whether to use Slugs or buck shot? I look forward to the "dinosaurs" opinions. ( I say that with much affection.) Let the games begin!

[uptownfed]

Slugs will do something awful to the human body, but they will keep moving. If you live in crowded surroundings or have a living arrangement that involves drywall, slugs probably aren't best just for liability' sake. 00 Bucks, the same but less so. You, IMHO, could get away with some #4 shot. Still create a wound that would neutralize the threat, but not neutralize your neighbors too. I'm sure that this will create some serious debate, and I might get flamed for it, but it is just my opinion.

[satpak77]

slug = 1 "bullet" albeit large bullet

buckshot = multiple almost 9mm rounds blasted out of the tube to the bad guy

[Jedi]

I don't consider myself an expert by any means, but if you're talking about using it in an apartment building/hotel room type set up, where multiple neighbors can be behind any given wall, stick with the buck shot. As satpak mentioned, that slug is just going to keep going and potentially injure the wrong person. In over-all performance, the slug is just a much less effective load. Lot of places switching from the shotgun to the AR-15/M-4 to get a more effective round without the spread issues of the buckshot.

[Kahuna5150]

India,

Congrats on the new gun. The shotgun is a great and very versatile weapon. As far as what round is "better", it would depend on what situation you're in. 00 would be the perfect choice in some situations and slugs the perfect choice in others. If I was engaging a target at close range, I would personally want 00 buck. You're throwing numerous pellets at someone at close range and the effects are devastating. Not to say a slug isn't devastating as well, but there is no spread on it, and what you might miss with a slug, you have a chance of getting a few pellets in with a 00 shell.

If I had to take a longer shot or a shot at a target with some other non-shoot-able targets in a semi-close area, (say a shot from across the street at a target with other targets are close by) the slug is the way to go. The slug makes the shotgun act as a type of rifle, whereas the 00 buck is more of the reason the shotgun is also known as the "scatter gun" or "riot gun".

Kahuna

[BigLew72]

You, IMHO, could get away with some #4 shot. Still create a wound that would neutralize the threat, but not neutralize your neighbors too.

I'm hoping that you are referring to #4 buck :) Unless of course you are a just a deranged individual........

- BigLew :cool:

[LeeRoy]

I look forward to the "dinosaurs" opinions.

Dinosaurs do not like slugs. OO Buck is less likely to take down larger species.

Go with slugs when taking on creatures from the Cretaecous and Jurassic periods.

[ISA GSD]

I agree with Kahuna. It depends on the situation.

Beware of your background at all times...

For home defense you can opt for 7 1/2 or 8 shot birdseed for you first round with the next rounds being 00 buck. Beyond 7 yards the birdseed may not put your target down but you won't hit your neighbors either.

Get to know the pattern of your shotgun at various distances. Different manufactories of the same type of round will pattern different. :cool:

[LearninginMN]

A bit of a tangent comming but I thought it was intresting. I don't know if I can name the radio show I heard this on, so I'm not going to, but the host who is by no means an LEO, or weapons expert, we'll call him "adam" was telling his co-host "drew" that he had the best idea for a home shotgun. The first round would be a blank, because he theorized he'd trip or something and set the thing off, the next round would be rock salt or a "less-lethal" round. After those rounds were expended he wanted to use 8 buckshot, then move to the slugs. It was said in jest, but it's an intresting idea.

[India 127 Alpha]

"Go with slugs when taking on creatures from the Cretaecous and Jurassic periods."

Thanks to all,

Learning I kind of see where you might find it the radio hosts logic interesting. While in New Orleans, a range officer I worked with loaded our shotguns with 3 buck and 2 slug, in that order. Not only was he a range officer he was a "Hill-Billy" from Kentucky.

WIll the 00-buck penetrate car doors, the same the slug would? Is the muzzle velocity the same? I'm assuming the muzzle velocity is vastly different in the 2 3/4" & 3"

When I took my new toy to the range, the pattern of the 00-buck looked devestating. It looked like 8-9 9mm hitting the same target. Really interesting. :banger:

[uptownfed]

Buckshot and car doors, I wouldn't trust my well-being to it. DEA NYFO published a .PDF a little while back showing what buckshot would and wouldn't do to a car. Does anyone have a copy of it? I'll check and see if I still have it.

[MakeItHappen]

Congrats on the new firearm. I have to agree with previous posters that it would depend on the situation. I own a Remington 870 slug and I love the firearm. However, I'm using it in the hunting capacity. I've seen what it does to black bears and some nice size bucks, the shock factor is impressive and the stopping power is great. But, like previously posted, you have to hit your mark and with a slug, one shot, one chance. With the 00, whole different ball game. Good luck with the new firearm.

[India 127 Alpha]

uptown I'd like to see that report.

[Desert Rat]

870 rem. excellent choice...for home defense I have to go with #4 shot as well. In a home your max range to target is gonna be in the 1 to 15 ft range...#4 shot will do the job quite nicely and not continue to penetrate walls, etc...as suggested by another poster, take your weapon out and run various shells through it and become familiar not only with the pattern of various shot#, but with various manufactuers, and long vs. short brass.

It's not rocket science, but is a good excuse to play with your new toy, if one is needed.

Keep racking that pump...god I love the sound of a pump shotgun as one is racked into the chamber..... :cool: :2gun: :banger:

Desert Rat

[birchauto]

A bit of a tangent comming but I thought it was intresting. I don't know if I can name the radio show I heard this on, so I'm not going to, but the host who is by no means an LEO, or weapons expert, we'll call him "adam" was telling his co-host "drew" that he had the best idea for a home shotgun. The first round would be a blank, because he theorized he'd trip or something and set the thing off, the next round would be rock salt or a "less-lethal" round. After those rounds were expended he wanted to use 8 buckshot, then move to the slugs. It was said in jest, but it's an intresting idea.

Sounds a little bit like Glenn Beck...?

[LearninginMN]

Sounds a little bit like Glenn Beck...?
the show was love line....

[gig101]

Buckshot and car doors, I wouldn't trust my well-being to it. DEA NYFO published a .PDF a little while back showing what buckshot would and wouldn't do to a car. Does anyone have a copy of it? I'll check and see if I still have it.

I have the pics - pm me your email if you would like me to forward them.

[FPS/SFI]

Just a little thought from a gun geek:

The pellet size in a 00 buckshot round, is approximately .32 caliber.

[Squirrel_62]

I keep a shotgun (w/extended mag) loaded with 3 #4 buck reduced recoil loads followed by 3 3" Magnum 000 buck shot. I figure that if the first 3 don't do it, I'm probably no longer worried about the neighbors.

[noknock]

Please remember as I've posted here before. There is NO MORE CONCERN with hitting innocent bystanders with buckshot at less than 50 feet than there is with a handgun or rifle bullet.

Regardless of the size shot used, the rule of thumb is a one inch spread in pattern for every 3 feet. Don't aim at someone 7 yards away and yes your 7 inch pattern is going to miss an upper torso. In most homes we are looking at a maximum of what 15 feet? Maybe 21 feet for easy math. Take a tape to your longest hallway or your family room. Remember the engagement is not going to be with your back to one wall and the bad guy to the other wall.

As far as OOO buck; 00 buck; 0 buck; #4 buck, etc. there are different schools of thought. All will be effective with minimal over penetration, even though a 000 buck is .36 cal, yes bigger than the .355/9mm round, it is considerably lighter.

A 000 Buck pellet (individual) weighs around 68 grains where as a 00 buck is 53 grains or so and it drops to 20 grains per #4 buck pellet. What is the typical weight of a .40 cal bullet? 155 grain, 185 or so with a 9mm being anywhere from 115 grain to 147 grains or so.

Point being is the devastation from 7 (000 buck) pellets to 27 (#4 buckshot) at close distance is great. If you start dabbling with trap loads, i.e., #7 1/2 - #9 shot, you risk under penetration of the bad guy. That is never a good idea unless at near point blank range.

Slugs in house or apartment don't even go there . . .