Old topic, new audience.....Marines, I need answers!

[apachebell]

A year and a half ago I got an Article 15 for adultery. My wife at the time, we will call her Trash, was pregnant with another man's child while I was serving my country in South Korea. It took over 9 months to get the paperwork done due to many delays, the largest one being the unborn child. Meanwhile, I got a girlfriend who I got pregnant. I was COMPLETELY honest with everyone in my chain of command the entire time. I told them I was getting a divorce, then I told them when I got a girlfriend, then I told them when I found out she was pregnant. My NCOIC and OIC did nothing for many months until the OIC finally decided to turn me in, presumably figuring he would get busted for dereliction. The judge at the divorce even hand wrote that the baby was not mine. I was divorced and remarried by the time they held my NJP.

The commander saw fit to find me guilty and give me a suspended sentence, so I never recieved any punishment, but it is in my record and I will have to explain it to LE when I try to get a job. The rest of my record is outstanding. I do not have one single mark other than this, and I have many Certificates of Commendation, a Good Conduct Medal, etc. Recently I was denied reenlistment for a "Core Values Violation" (my NJP). I am concerned that this will give me an RE4 and that I will never again be able to serve my country or get into LE. I really feel like this is a slap in the face. Any comments?

I posted this last year, but I am seeing many more Marines on here now and I would like some input from my Brothers.

One more thing, does anyone have a list of the RE codes and their specific definitions?

[apachebell]

So why can't I get an opinion from anyone on this subject?

[UN_Cop]

First, find out about your RE codes and character of the discharge. Second, the military can waiver anything. However, the corp is a little more strengent than other branches of service. You can consult a lawyer, look in any military "Times" in the back. I can not give too much other advice, I saw your second post and will never leave a brother in need.

Least we never forget our fallen comrades

[Midtncop]

I have been trained for and conducted background investigations for my agency. I have not been in the military, but isnt an article 15 a non judicial punishment? If so, this should not give you a problem. Civillian LE agencies are not very hard on things such as adultry, especially under those circumstances. IF they were, hardly anybody could stay hired (lol). I know several current officers that had an article 15 and was still hired. As long as you have an honorable discharge you should be ok. Just be honest.

[id1811xecj]

I would like to take Apachebell's experience as an opportunity to urge all military members to call the OIC/CO's bluff on NJP issues and request a Special Court Martial. Courts Martial are very expensive and the costs, in the sea services at least, come out of the command's budget. Often, they are dropped. Sometimes it is a risk worth taking.

[JSavage]

Originally posted by id1811xecj
I would like to take Apachebell's experience as an opportunity to urge all military members to call the OIC/CO's bluff on NJP issues and request a Special Court Martial. Courts Martial are very expensive and the costs, in the sea services at least, come out of the command's budget. Often, they are dropped. Sometimes it is a risk worth taking.

DO NOT DO THAT!!!!

If you request Courts Martial on an NJP offense, the UCMJ requires you get it. Period. If you ask for it, the command can't waive it. They would be waiving your right to a jury of your peers. I know one individual that took Art. 15 to SCM over a failure to obey a direct order, citing that it was unlawfull. He lost. Now he's a felon because he didn't do what he was told.

It is not worth the risk.

Apache, contact your next higher reenlistment office (if your at battalion, go to division). If you can't do this, call your congressman. We are in a time of need and any stink will surely be effective. Don't forget to request a change of duty assignment to go along with it. You don't want to be assigned to a command after you scorched your CO's ass.

Good luck

Sua Sponte

[apachebell]

The reason you DO NOT request a court martial on adultery is that there are 3 elements to proving adultery under the UCMJ.

1. Prove that the person is married. (easy to prove).

2. Prove that the person had sexual intercourse with another person. (my girlfriend was pregnant, well...so was my spouse, with another man's baby, but that is neither here nor there)

3. DECIDE (and this is the kicker, it does not say prove) that the person's actions were contrary to the good order and discipline of the uniformed services.

The third element is described in the UCMJ as being completely up to the person conducting the NJP. It flat out says that if the CO thinks it fits number 3, then it does. No if's, and's or but's. THEY DO NOT HAVE TO PROVE ELEMENT 3, IT IS PURELY OPINION. You can appeal it if you want, but the next man up still has total say in element three, AND SO DOES A JURY OF YOUR PEERS!!!!!!!! It is not worth the risk of being found guilty in a court of law, vice a simple admin procedure. Unless you have consulted a lawyer and found that you can disprove 1 or 2, don't gamble with your future.

[id1811xecj]

My comment was not meant as criticism of your choice. There are strong reasons for going with NJP, mainly, (1) lower penalties and (2) you did it. I just feel that members should seek counsel, as is the right of everyone except Coast Guard and Navy members attached to vessels, and that counsel should consider all legal defenses.

Let's look at your case.

(1) I have not looked at the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces case law lately but it is not certain that it could be so easily proven. Is there a certified copy of the marriage certificate in your service record book? Probably not. Where is you service record book. How quickly could they get the certified copy when you are overseas? The angry spouse could testify and your DEERS enrollment might be entered into the record (I can't remember if this would be permissible as a prior statement). Chances are they prove it but not clearly.

(2) How are they going to prove adultery? Unless your current girlfriend were a military member, she could not be compeled, absent extreme circumstances where the power of the US District Court were used (never done), to testify against you. If you married her prior to trial, even the day of trial, she could not be compelled to testify against you. Continuances would not be difficult to get to get to a point where you were legally divorced. What about your statements to the command admitting adultery? They would likely be suppressed as you were likely not read your rights. Unlike the civilian world, you need not be in custody. The military is presumed to be a coercive environment. Who, other than the two participants, has any direct, personal knowledge of the act of adultery to which they could testify under the rules of evidence. The chances are, no one.

don't forget, even it they can convict you, they might not want to spend the money. At certain times of the year, ie now. They might not even have it.

You probably made the right choice. I just think that members should think about requesting a court martial.

[apachebell]

I agree completely. If you know they cannot prove your guilt or if you think you can pull your command's punk card, then absolutely go for it. My girlfriend was military, they obviously had proof that I was married (as you know, when you are married, they have all of your spouse's information in your service record book), and I was concerned that my girlfriend would be prosecuted as well. I took the bullet for both of us. Thanks for your comments.

On top of that id1811xecj, the Army lawyer that handles my case for me didn't come up with half the ideas you did. She advised taking the NJP when I probably could have run it the way you just said and I would have been golden. Bad draw on the attorney I guess. I should have looked for another one.

[THEWARBABY]

I was the legal officer at my unit for 2.5 years. That is not a lawyer. It was simply one of my collateral dutys as a squadron pilot. I probably prepared and ran at least 100 office hours a summary court-martial and 1 special. Generally speaking is is usually easier and more efficient to hold office hours. The most important thing to know is that the rules of evidence and burden of proof do not apply at office hours. That is why you have the right to refuse NJP unless embarked aboard the boat. If you refuse then it goes to a summary. You have the right to refuse it also. Next step is a special. A conviction at a special is considered a felony in the civilian sector. So, as you up the stakes so do they. We convicted a Marine of UA (AWOL in the Army) at a special. The decision was made to retain the young man. Unless you ex-wife pushed the issue, the command could have maintained flexibility and understanding. I and my command took extra efforts to ensure that each Marine had the opportunity to seek counsel. Additionally, we held ourselves to a higher standard of proof. Unfortunately, not all commanders or those within your chain of command have troop welfare as one of their chief concerns. As with all of the Marines I have counseled, I wish you luck and say that you can generally overcome One incident when people examine you record as a whole. Paint the whole picture and it may minimize the impact.
Good luck.

[Ross]

When you do your Law Enforcement interviews you can tell them if you think it is pertinent. If you didn't instigate the problem and feel you did nothing wrong dont worry. Remember the Military is the onlty organization that prosecutes for adultery these days. It is not against the law to do it on the outside. Think about it!:idea: