Firearms licence system

[Garda]

Hi folks,
My apologies if this thread is in the wrong section...(Mods. feel free to move it if appropriate)

I'm doing my policing dissertation on how we here in Ireland can change our firearms application process. Any info on your local system is appreciated.

Presently here we the Gardai (police force) administer the applications.
You put a deposit on the firearm with a dealer, and receive a receipt and serial number.

You then present this at your local station, where a form is filled in.
You need to have permission from 2 owners of suitable land, permitting you to shoot there, or be member of a gun club.
We then do a background check, and confirm with gun club/ landowners that you are ok, and the land is suitable.

Local Superintendent has final say ...if all is ok, licence is issued, you pay a fee and go back to the dealer with your licence, where you can obtain the firearm.

There is no requirement for training. But Super can make recommendations regarding home security, safe/alarm etc.

Refusal of a licence can be appealed and then challenged in court.

Please note: In Ireland guns cannot be bought for protection, only sporting/work use .eg. farmer.

Thanks in advance for any info/advice

Cheers

Garda

[ATF SAC]

It was always fun when working with folks from the Guards or the UK to take them into an American gun store. There is no purpose requirement in the US. You go to a gun store, select your product (s) (handgun, rifle, shotgun), fill out the paperwork and an instant background check is conducted that establishes you are not a prohibited person (generally a convicted felon, although illegal aliens, fugitives from justice, adjudicated mental incompetents and persons who have renounced their citizenship, dishonorably discharged veterans, persons under indictment and persons convicted or restrained for domestic violence charges are also prohibited). Must also be of proper age. Clear the check, pay the price and have a grand day.

There may be additional State and local requirements for registration or other limits although the most common controls relate to carrying the weapon in your vehicle or concealed on your person. That may require a specific permit or license issued by a police department or sheriff depending on the jurisdiction.

Pretty typically there is no discretion here. If you are not prohibited then you must be cleared.

Certain classes of firearms require Federal registration and approval for transaction - machine guns, sawed off rifles and shotguns, silencers, anti-tank cannons and such. For conventional firearms there is no National registration scheme, although firearms can be traced based on required markings and records required to be kept by manufacturers, importers, wholesalers and retailers. These folks are licensed Federally as they may also be by the State or local jurisdiction.

Your call as whether this constitutes an improvement or not.

[Norm357]

The following amazes my friends from over seas. :D

The process for Norm357 to buy a firearm......

Drive to one of three gun stores within ten minutes of my house.

Chooose firearm and fill out one sheet of paperwork.

No background check because I have a CCW.

Pay for firearm and go home.

Total time elapsed, 30 minutes tops.

:2gun:

[JI603]

yup, or wait until a gunshow is in town and then buy from a private seller on a word and a handshake!

OP - with 50 states in the good ol' US of A, there are 50 possible manners in which to buy a gun. As ATFSAC put it succinctly, these run the gamut from no restriction on our second amendment rights, to California/Massachusetts/New Jersey state gun laws which mandate waiting periods/locks/magazine restrictions, etc.

It's confusing, for those of us that live here. Good luck w/your dissertation. Perhaps you could compare and contrast w/ the recent 'knife amnesty' held in the UK...


:cool:

[Garda]

Thanks guys,
It's an interesting topic for a cop, who shoots in a club, but every once in a while meets a fellow shooter and wonders who let them get a licence!!!

If any of you have suggestions please feel free to post them.
Any opinions on compulsary basic safety training?
Enforcing secure home storage? etc

[GS1890]

Here in the Green Mountain State, I can wander in to any gun store, buy any handgun/rifle/shotgun that I see, show my VT drivers license, fill out the ATF form, dealer does his NICS check, pay for the purchase, and I'm out the door in less than 30 minutes. In VT there is no state license, no registration, no safety course, no purchase coupons, no one gun-per-month schemes, etc..etc... And, last time I checked, Vermont ranked 49th out of the 50 states in lowest per capita violent crime rate. Only North Dakota was safer.:)

[DoD NucE]

UNfortunately, I don't think that you'll ever have the benefit of a US type gun store experience as we are pretty unique in that our Constitution has the 2nd Amendment which outlines our right to own firearms. I'm not going to go into one of my pro second amendment diatribes, but suffice to say that I am an avod collector and shooter of firearms with my firearms collection worth about 1 quarter of what my house is worth, and worth more than my year old $40,000 truck. I think that making it illegal to be able to defend yourself as a law abiding citizen with a firearm is an issue, and that would be the first area which I would consider changing, if I was able to change the laws in Ireland. As the saying goes, when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns, and I would be willing to bet that such strict regulation of firearms has had very little effect on the number of illegal firearms in the hands of criminals, just as NY state's requirement for handgun licensing in NY state has done little to control the amount of stolen handguns in the hands of criminals in NY. Only one handgun that I took off of a criminal here in NY was not stolen according to ATF and NCIC. That's about 13% of the guns I've recovered. So I guess my response would be as I stated earlier, if you were looking at a place to begin changing the firearms laws in Ireland the place I would start is to allow law abiding citizens the ability to defend themselves with a firearm.

[Garda]

(I think in light of todays events stateside this thread may take on a whole new relevance... my deepest sympathies to all who were effected by the shootings.... victims and families and attending officers, medics etc.)


I agree, the U.S. is unique when it comes to firearms.
Americans benifit from the tradition of gun ownership, and any friends I have stateside have been taught from an early age to respect and handle their firearms properly.
Here in Ireland we dont have that tradition, so we now have a strange situation where (in theory) anyone can go buy a handgun (handguns were not available here since the 1970's due to the Northern Ireland conflict). Their parents/grandparents etc. have no experience with firearms... no rolemodels etc.
So try to imagine a cop with a white canvas trying to put forward ideas, i'd like to encourage training / proper handling.... and how do we encourage our sport ...while still avoiding undesirable elements from legally having guns.

[D15C1PLE_556]

and how do we encourage our sport

This is the easy part. Invite people with you.

On another forum, I have it clearly stated that if you want to learn about firearms and shooting sports to contact me and I will take you shooting, on me.

I belong to a private club. I own several AR's, long guns, shotguns and handguns. I am 'behind enemy lines' here where I live as far as NFA (for simple sake "machine guns and sound supressors") goes so I am limited to what I can own with out being a dealer.

We have a crappy "safety inspection" where the local PD "inspects" our handguns for safety 'reasons'. They never fire it, they never take the lock off, they just log the SN and take our money. Many cities are about to be sued in my state between because this violates state law, rightfully so.

Enjoy the use of the guns. Show others and be responsible. I teach my kids not to be afraid of guns but to respect them. Just like Authority :)