Knife carry: strong or weak side?

[uptownfed]

My thought is to carry weak side b/c if you fighting for your gun you could still get to the knife. I don't remember what FLETC taught, but this seems most logical. I, however, have seen VERY few people who carry weak side. Thoughts???

[Kahuna5150]

I don't remember what FLETC taught, but this seems most logical. I, however, have seen VERY few people who carry weak side. Thoughts???


I don't remember FLETC ever teaching anything about knives at the academy (at least not in CITP), but I would say if you plan on carrying a knife for defensive or offensive purposes (absent all the warning of making sure you know your agency policy and all that stuff) the primary concern for me would keeping it somewhere I know it is secure. Obviously having it accessible is important, but even more so I would say it shouldn't be in a spot that a suspect or someone else might be able to grab it or have easy access to it.

I would also say that all of the weapon retention drills I have ever been trained in involved using both hands. One hand to clamp down on your weapon and to gain control (joint locks, breaking their elbows, etc) with the other hand.

If you have it in mind you're going to go for a backup weapon (be it knife or gun) if someone grabs your sidearm, you should really do a lot of drills with this to see exactly how effective you can be. Short of a suspect coming straight into you from the front, the ability to stab or even shoot accurately is going to be a huge issue if you're attacked from behind or the side (and for a weapon grab I think these are just as common if not more so than the frontal assault).

I would also ask yourself (for a knife) what type of defense/offense you'll be using. Unless you've had some knife fighting training (and mine has been so limited I could easily say I've had none as well), it may be interesting to see what technique you'd use. Most folks would probably use a punching/stabbing technique (as this is most natural), but for someone who is behind you or standing to your side, a slashing technique would probably be more effective. I would also say reaching across your own body with your weak hand in a coat, cover garment, or wearing a vest might also cause a problem when trying to reach a suspect on your strong side.

I have been to stabbings/cuttings many times and the first thing I'm always amazed about is how slippery knives get and how hard it seems for many to keep a grip. I'm guessing holding down your gun with a strong hand while stabbing/slashing with your weak is going to take a bit of practice.

Kahuna

[krellum]

Depends on which is your box/envelope-opening hand...

My smarta$$ response aside, I'll go with Kahuna's advice. I carry mine on my weak side, but don't really expect it to be an effective defense. We had some knife training in one of the academies I attended, but just enough to make a smart person think twice about engaging in this type of fighting - unless you absolutely have to.

k

[LearninginMN]

are there knives that are designed for left hand as opposed to right hand? I carry mine weak side b/c it's designed to open for a righty... also I throw stuff like change and cash in my left pocket. There are knives that go on your duty belt (on the inside and the handle sticks up at an angle, and you cross draw it). Tactcially I think the last thing I'm gunna do is pull my knife b/c now I've got this big blade that's now in play...

[FedRich]

The only knife as a defensive weapon training I received at FLETC was during BDUSM. The primary concern, as Kahuna pointed out, was not carrying the knife in a "common" location that would be easy for a bandit to grab. K brings up a good point, especially if in a ground fight where you will most likely be protecting your firearm by laying on it. Another option, which was advocated by one of our DUSM instructors, was IWB carry.

[ronin100]

The only knife as a defensive weapon training I received at FLETC was during BDUSM. The primary concern, as Kahuna pointed out, was not carrying the knife in a "common" location that would be easy for a bandit to grab. K brings up a good point, especially if in a ground fight where you will most likely be protecting your firearm by laying on it. Another option, which was advocated by one of our DUSM instructors, was IWB carry.

More than likely every instructor is going to give you a different opinion on knife carry. My feeling is show me one technique, there is more than likely a counter move to it or defense. There are too many "if, then's" when it comes to carry locations. Sure, if you fall on your gun side, you can now get to your support side hidden knife (or other weapon). If you don't fall, and are grasping your holster w/ both hands, it won't matter where your knife is.
My point is, where ever your secondary weapons are, training and mindset are going to get you to them. Don't change them around once you have grown acustomed to their placement.
As a D/T instructor, I will only say that a knife fight is bad. More than likely, if the bad guy has one, (and you haven't shot, or were not able to shoot him!) and they are on you, there is every likelyhood that you will be cut. How bad will depend on you falling back onto the techniques you've been taught, and rountinely practice (like we all get a chance to do, right?). Accomplished knife fighters are few. The techniques used are designed to deliver a devestating blow/slash with as few movements as possible.

Now, where I choose to carry a knife. I have a CRKT M16 that I keep on the strong side, usually in the back pocket of my 5.11's or front right pocket of my jeans. I rely on mainly as a utility tool. It is a secondary wepon if needed, however offenseively, one would be best served to seek out that specific training to be effective. Just my 2 cents.

[Kahuna5150]

One other thing speaking of training and carry location. If you haven't had a chance to see the Calibre Press Surviving Edged Weapon Attacks (or some similar name), you need to rent, borrow, or buy it. Great info on edge weapons and how deadly they can be. I think it's useful for both officer safety as well as if you're thinking of carrying an edged weapon as a backup weapon.

One thing I noticed in the training (and Simunition training I had myself prior to seeing the video). Using our duty weapon and/or backup weapon has been grilled into us from the first day at the academy. In a lot of the scenarios I was put into (as well as in the video) going for anything other than your duty weapon (or some weapon) was not an option when faced with an attack from a subject with and edged weapon. Realistically you'll never break leather and clear a shot before someone with a knife out and within the 21 foot radius gets on you.

I myself (in a scenario) as actors on the video have struggled to get my weapon out while a guy started slashing at me with a training knife. I was so focused on getting my duty weapon out I pretty much forgot anything about weaponless defense. In such a high stress environment (even just training) I found myself falling back on getting my gun out so I could use deadly force in response to a deadly force attack (knife). Course not defending yourself and deflecting the attack until you can safely go to a weapon is a good way to get yourself killed long before you can respond.

This ties into carrying a knife as well as knowing your limitation, training skill, as well as if it would be better to go to a knife or other weapon or to just use open handed defense until you can somewhat clear the threat to safely go to another weapon or take the suspect into custody.

If you carry your knife on your weak side will you be able to reach it and/or successfully deploy it in a high stress situation? If it is on your weak side, do you blade your gun side away from the suspects you encounter (and in turn present the knife on your weak side to the suspect)?

If you carry it on your strong side are you going to be able to use it if your strong hand is incapacitated and/or busy holding down your gun in a weapon retention situation?

I can see the positive and negatives of each type of carry. See what works best for you and what is safest. Again I would say it is probably far more important to keep a knife you carry secured than make it a fast access/draw weapon. You're already going to be in a CQC situation once someone makes physical contact with your gun (trying to grab it from you). Probably best to go hands on and break an elbow, bite an ear off, gouge and eye, or whatever else you need to do to secure your weapon and keep yourself alive...

Kahuna

[JimSpoor]

I have studied and practiced some weapon retention using edged weapons. By no means do I consider myself an expert. I carry support side for just that reason. Although I carry clipped to my support side front pocket I would recommend as others have that you choose a more discreet method of carry. No sense advertising. In my case, I've simply become too used to it for anywhere else to be natural.

If you work in uniform, accessing any of your pants pockets may be a problem. If you work in plain clothes finding one spot where you can always carry in the same position can be a problem, depending on wardrobe.

Last thing. What you want/need in a SD knife and in an utility knife/tool are likely to be very different. For SD take a look at Ka-Bar TDI.

[Badge11]

I carry mine on my strong side. Easier for me to access and stays away from the bad guy, just like my gun.

[chico51]

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