US Marine Corps OCS = ROTC (??)

[LadyJustice]

Okay, I am a little confused. The other day I met with an OSO (Officer Selection Officer) and he suggested that I join the Marine Reserves and enter the OCS program simultaneously. That sort of presents a problem, since the ONLY USMC Reserve Base in WI that accepts women is not taking any more, so my chances for that are not the best, unless the OSO can convince Chicago to give up one woman to them, in which case I could go down there. Still, the outlook is bleak, I think...

But then I was talking to a friend who said, "Why don't you just do ROTC?" As I understood it, the Marines don't have ROTC -- the OCS (Officer Candidate School) or I think some people call it PLC (Platoon Leaders Class) is like the Marine's version of ROTC. Is that true? I am so confused about all of this...if anyone could help me out I'd really appreciate it.

I am getting frustrated. I am already 20, and I'd be 21 by the time I entered basic training if I even could go in this summer. The average age of a Marine Recruit is 19 -- I don't want to be too old! I might just throw my hands up and enlist for active duty. I have been training hard and am ready physically. My OSO said that since I got a 30 on the ACT's, I might not have to take the AVSAB. Should I do this?

If anyone can give me any suggestions, I'd be forever indebted. Thanks.

Anne

[Tampa_#63]

I'll try to help as best i can. First, I must ask what year of college are you in now. That makes a difference, because if you are past your junior year, you cannot join ROTC. If you are a freshman or sophmore, then you can. In your case, you would want to join Navy ROTC, and request to go Marine Corps branch. You are correct that there is no separate Marine ROTC. It comes under Navy ROTC, since the Marines fall under the department of the Navy.

Now, if you are past your junior year, then I recommend you finish your degree, graduate, then go to Marine OCS. There are several posts in this forum about Marine OCS. Don't feel rushed. You have plenty of time to make a decision. Your first priority should be finishing school, then tackle the next step.

I went through Army ROTC, and served 8.5 years as an Army officer, so my experience with the Marines is limited. Good luck.

[Dwight6]

Do not worry about your age. You have a few years yet before your age becomes an issue. I was 24 when I received my commission as a Second Lieutenant. It is not at all uncommon to see brand new officers in their late 20s. The average Marine recruit may only be 19; however, the average Marine Second Lieutenant is probably 23/24. That is pretty much standard across all the service branches.

Tampa is right and gave good advise reference ROTC vs. OCS. Unless it has changed (and it may very well have), you will have to take the ASVAB regardless of your ACT/SAT scores...unless you go the ROTC route.

[LadyJustice]

Hey, thanks for the responses. I presently only have sophomore standing at school, although I should have junior standing due to my age. The reason for this is that I got my Police Science degree right out of high school, and when I went to a four year university, they did not accept many of my credits. So I could still do ROTC. But aren't you a little more committed with ROTC? I mean, as I understand it, they pay your tuition, so would you have the option of not acceptng a commission with them upon graduation?

In addition, with ROTC, are you also a reservist? Don't you have to wear your dress uniform once a month, or a week, or something on that order? Furthermore, I heard that not all schools have an ROTC program. I guess I am going to have to do a little homework on this subject...

Again, thanks for all the info. Much appreciated!

:D

[Future Agent]

LadyJustice,

If I may, I would like to offer up this small bit of advice. And please don't think this is coming from a disgruntled ex-military guy or anything.

First, let me preface this by saying that I have seen firsthand what Naval ROTC is all about. I was a midshipman for two and a half years at a large midwestern university, and prior to that I was an enlisted sailor with two overseas deployments under my belt. In both cases I worked and socialized with plenty of Marines.

My advice? Definitely a YES to the Marines as your branch of choice; definitely NO to ROTC as a means to get to your ultimate goal--a USMC commission.

Why YES to the Marines? Simply put, the Marines, no matter what your sex or background may be, treat their own the same--like Marines. They have tough standards for performance, behavior, and bearing and they enforce those standards. Therefore, since all Marines know what they are going to get when they address another Marine, and since all Marines have to go thru the toughest training in the world to get where they are, there is no pretense, and there is relatively little politics. It is a brotherhood.

As for the "NO" to ROTC, I simply believe this--a civilian college is a civilian college, and the military is the military, and mixing them just isn't cool. First and foremost, ROTC units, depending on where you choose to go to school, seem like they are in a constant struggle to keep their midshipmen and cadets motivated and interested in what they are supposed to be doing; in essence, there is a lot of "babysitting" going on and less direct, professional military instruction and supervision--which only leads to the formation of cliques among the midshipmen. And that's bad. OCS, on the other hand, is proper basic training for officers. It is a thirteen week long course that is not only designed to weed out those with serious character flaws, but also to give officer candidates a more realistic taste of the military lifestyle. Basically, OCS cuts off most of the "fat" and touchy-feely stuff. It's bare bones, nitty gritty, and twenty-four seven. And that is what you want if you aspire to be successful in the Corps or anywhere else.

[Tampa_#63]

FutureAgent, I have to disagree with your generalization about ROTC. You are obviously speaking from personal experience at the particular university you attended. You cannot speak for every ROTC unit around the country. The Naval ROTC at the university I attended was very squared away, with the Marines being more so. My experience says that ROTC is what the cadets make of it. They pretty much run the show, with the cadre members there as advisors, and to teach the required military courses of study. it sounds like the cadets at the Naval ROTC unit you were in, were unmotivated about the program and declined to make the program worth while.

ROTC produces many fine officers, for all the services. I seem to remember that Colin Powel was an ROTC graduate. My college roommate graduated from Naval ROTC and is currently a commander who is up for captain. I also belive you'll find that academy graduates no longer make up a disproportionate number of flag officers throughout the military. The services realized that ROTC graduates are more than capable of performing in those positions.

Ladyjustice, in answer to some of your questions, this is what I know, unless things have changed. You do not make a commitment to the service until you begin your junior year. Your freshman and sophmore years are gimmie years. During these first two years you have no obligation unless your are on an ROTC scholarship. They do not pay your tuition unless you have this scholarship. While in the program, you normally wear your uniform once or twice a week, conducting "drills" on these days. Also on some weekends you have training throughout the year. During summers, you attend schools and training programs in the fleet with Navy or Marine units. Upon commissioning, your training does not stop there. You will still attend some type of basic officer course before going to your specilaized training.

Not all schools have Naval ROTC. Check with your school. if they do, talk to the cadets, see what they think about the program. get info on ROTC scholarship. it's a great way to get your tuition paid for. there are two, three and four year scholarships available.

My father served in the Marines, and was a drill instructor at Parris Island (the best job in the Corps according to him). I grew up in Beaufort, so I know something about the Marines, although I did not serve in the Corps. Good luck.

[Dwight6]

I happen to agree with Tampa on this one; however, regardless of anyone's opinion on ROTC vs. OCS, all officers in the Marine Corps, regardless of gender, branch, or source of commissioning must attend an "officer basic training" course called The Basic School (TBS). It is basically six months of learning about Marine Corps history, customs and coutesies, and small unit leadership. The course is so successful, that the U.S. Army is implementing a very similar program.

I say if you can get a couple of your college years paid for by getting an ROTC scholarship, then do it.

[LadyJustice]

Hey, wow, thanks for all the helpful info. UW-Milwaukee does not have an ROTC program. But man...I really feel like I am itching to get into this. I am going to call a recruiter tomorrow to see about the possibilty of joining the reserves, and if the chances are pertty much negative (on account of my being female and there not being a base nearby that accepts females), I think I have pretty much made up my mind to go ahead and enlist.

Here's my general plan: enlist for three years active duty, so when I got out, I'd still only be 23, with junior standing in college. I'd be 25 (ideally) when I graduated, so if I still felt like the officer program (OCS) was the way to go, I'd be on the "old" end, but nonetheless, not TOO old. (The maximum age is 27)

Furthermore, I have a small blemish on my record from when I was 15 (a $74 municipal ticket for possession, long story), and when I was a kid, my parents took me to a psychologist to see why I got bored quickly in school (ADD?), so I am wondering is those two things would hinder my chances of becoming an officer, anway?

I took the ASVAB today and got a 99%, and I was told that was the highest one could score, although I am not sure how I did on the electronics/automobiles part. I am female...what the heck do I know about that kind of stuff!?! LOL! :confused:

Hopefully I got over a 115. I am going to call the recruiter that took me there (which is actually an Army recruiter, seeing as that was the branch I was initially looking into, although I now have my heart set on the Marines), and ask how I did, and see if he can break it down for me.

Ah well, c'est la vie, n'est pas? Thanks again for all who responded. I'm ecstatic!

:bounce:

[krellum]

Something to check with your recruiter: I believe that the Marine Corps.' minimum enlistment is 4 years. Not a huge difference, but a difference still.

I would not worry about your "blemishes" - this is the Marine Corps., not the FBI! They sound common enough to me. We had gang-bangers, MAJOR drug users, etc. in my platoon in boot camp. I don't think a ticket and a past diagnosis with ADD (which is VERY common today - EVERY kid can technically be diagnosed as having ADD, even if they don't actually suffer from it) quite compare.


k

[geodetective]

Ladyjustice:

It looks like you are getting as many different opinions as you are responses, and that is ok. All the better for you to choose your own path. With that in mind, let me throw in my own two cents.

I enlisted in the Marine Corps reserve when I was 18. At the time, I, like you, was considering the possibility of serving as an officer one day. The only difference is that I had only completed one semester of college at the time. You, on the other hand, are approaching your junior year. In my opinion, enlisting in the Marine Corps, though admirable, is akin to taking a step back. I truly believe that PLC is an excellent option for someone in your shoes. It would allow you to attend one 10-week session at OCS the summer before your senior year, after which you return to school. When you graduate, you may accept your commission. Keep in mind that OCS is nothing to sneeze at . . . you have to face the same big, bad, and ugly drill instructors that every other Marine Corps recruit had to. Nonetheless, if you are mentally and physically prepared for the challenge, I am sure that you will succeed. OCS is also one of the finest leadership schools in the world. Don't sell yourself short . . . buckle down, finish school, and go for that gold bar. Once you are a Leader of Marines, you will know that you made the right choice.

Best of luck to you.

geo

[LadyJustice]

I agree with what your saying about taking a step back...it's just that I really want to join the Marines, and I've never been much good at waiting! I already told my recruiter that I want to enlist, and I've filled out the info for the FBI check for a security clearance. He think I'm borderline as to whether or not I'll get the waiver on account of having seen a psychologist. I guess I failed to mention to you guys that she also treated me for mild depression...and consequently, she prescribed antidepressants for awhile. I didn't take them for very long, and looking back, I honestly don't think that I even needed them, but my recruiter told me that the Marine Corps kinda goes, "Hey-now-hold-on-wait-a-second" when it comes to mind altering chemicals. I'll be really bummed if I don't get that waiver...especially knowing that big time ILLEGAL drug users can get in, but someone who took LEGAL drugs, albeit for a short time and only because she was a minor and her parents insisted that she do so, might be disqualified.

The other aspect of this would-be stint in the military is the fact that I kinda sorta have my heart set on intelligence. As I understand, it's not easy to gain a clearance for that.

But I guess worrying about it won't do any good. I have already faxed a written request and a waiver to my old doc asking her to fax my records to the recruiter, and she assurred me over the phone that if anyone ever called her for a reference, she would give them an excellent review of me. She really liked me, and agrees with me about my "hypervigilant" parents. Also, my recruiter said that because I scored off the charts on my ASVAB, and already have an Associate's Degree under my belt with a 3.8 GPA, the military doctors who issue the waiver will take that into account.

I sure hope so. I really want this. Man.

[geodetective]

I understand your anxiousness. When I made the decision to join I didn't want to wait another day. However, the difference between in lifestyles of officers and enlisted Marines warrants a careful evaluation. It sounds as if you are bright, articulate, educated, and motivated young woman. Frankly, I think that you would be happier with the cameraderie found on the officer side of the Corps. If you enlist, your peers will, for the most part, be younger than you, less mature than you, and less educated than you -- it can make for a lonely life. Secondly, I know that you feel sort of obligated to continue your enlistment process due to the fact that your recruiter has already invested some time in you. Remember, we are talking about YOUR future here, and not anyone else's. Three years from now you won't give a crap whether or not you helped your recruiter reach his quota! Make the choice that is right for you. If you hang on and do PLC, you'll be wearing cammies in no time and having the time of your life.

Lastly, I cant' imagine that there will be a problem with the anti-depressants. Just hang in there.

geo

[Breadman]

Looks like you're getting a lot of good info on your options, but here's a little more to help (or confuse) you.
First, don't worry about the age thing. I'm 28, and will be shipping to Quantico for OCC (the ten-week program) in January. Additionally, I spent 7 years in the enlisted ranks in the ARMY nonetheless, and it has not hurt my chances in the least. Remember, if you serve four years or more in the active enlisted and then go to the officer side of the house, you get a huge pay increase compared to a new lieutenant with no prior service. But don't let money be the motivator. This brings me to the second point: looking back on it all, I wish I had not wasted so much time in the enlisted ranks, but instead had just gone to college and linked up with the officer program there. Marine officer program is the best of the services, and they are competitive in their selection process. For whatever reason, there is something about the quality of officer they produce that makes them more respectable. Yes, they have their problems (all new lieutenants do), but they have not sacrificed their core standards. If you're smart, like to learn, want to lead, etc, go for the bar. But again, it's your choice. You get to live with it for however long you sign up for.
---Breadman:D

[LadyJustice]

Breadman and Geodetective -- both of your replies were very insightful, and have really given me a lot to think about in terms of the enlisted/officer side. Geo -- you made some excellent points, in regard to fellow recruits maturity level, education, age, etc. I had not really taken that into consideration, I suppose. One thing to think about, though, is that if I enter basic training in January, I won't be in there with a bunch of kids straight out of high school -- I'd be in there with people close to my own age. And you REALLY don't think the anti-depressants will be an issue? The recruiters are making it sounds VERRRY sketchy. Maybe they just like to see me sweat.

Breadman -- congrats to you on OCS! Are you entering as a Marine or Army officer? I thought 27 was the upper age limit for the Marines Officer Program...so I am guessing Army? I WOULD like to go the officer route...it's just that I am a little lacking in self confidence. I hate to fail, and I know I'd get really down on myself if they rejected me. I'm starting to get kinda anxious with even my enlistment being in limbo, on account of this medical waiver crap. My psych doc is dragging her feet, and I think it is on account of me being a minor when she treated me. She might flat out refuse to turn over my file, regardless of what I sign. She did say she'd write me a letter of recommendation, though, basically stating that she had treated me for ADD as a kid, and prescribed Ritalin, but she felt that I was "stable" the last time she saw me, which was a couple years ago.

So I'm kinda stressing...and it was good of Geo to remind me that I have not put my paw in the air yet and taken the oath as a recruit. I still see Law Enforcement as a long term goal...maybe when I am 27 or so, and have a little life experience and maturity under my belt. And saying I was an officer in the Marine Corps versus an enlisted person wouldn't look half bad on a resume, either!

Take care,
and I can't thank you enough for all the advice.

Anne

[Breadman]

LadyJustice:
Glad to have helped. Here's some more clarification on some of your q's.
Quantico hosts Marine OCS only, so I'll be going to Marine OCS in January. For the Army, OCS is conducted at Fort Benning, GA. Additionally, most states have their own in-house OCS program for the National Guard. While 27 may be a cut-off for age requirements, there is always an exception to the rule in the military. In my case, the age requirement is waived because I spent some time in the actives. You shouldn't worry about the ADD thing: I had my share of screw-ups when I was younger (to include a small record), but they aren't concerned so long as there is no visible pattern of misconduct. Hell, I had more than one troop assigned to me who was on Ritalin before they came in. But most importantly, don't let your fear of failure stop you from what you want to do. I waited way too long because of my fear of not making it through the program, when I could have been in the fleet right now wearing a Captain's bar on my collar if I had had the intestinal fortitude to try. The British Special Air Service have a great motto that we should all apply here: "WHO DARES WINS." Go ahead and dare yourself.
---Breadman:cool:

[MacLeod]

Well I'm chimming in, but I dare say that I don't have that much more to offer. I too was enlisted in the reserves before I got commissioned out of ROTC. By the way, that guy's assessment of ROTC was way off base. Each program is different and is a direct reflection of the cadets/midshipmen.

With regard to enlisting vs. going for your commission. No disrespect to recruiters, but they are under pressure to meet quotas, and a female, well educated, that scores as high on the ASVAB as you did, is a big catch. So remember, his/her motivation is to get you to sign up, and then you're on your own. That doesn't mean that they don't care and they are going to cheat you either. But like everything in LIFE, you make the decision, you live with it. He's already got his Anchor and Globe, he doesn't have to go through Bootcamp again. You do.

Now not having been a Marine, take this for what it's worth. Bootcamp is generally a gut buster all out intensive training experience. OCS will be the same, except they will be throwing more leadership stuff at you. And in all honesty, I would say that if you have what it takes to get through Bootcamp, then you have what it takes to make it through OCS. But here's the kicker, the real secret of the military. It is highly confidential, but I'll share it with JUST YOU.....EVERYTHING you do in the military, from basic, to advanced schooling to Airborne School; you are not in it alone. You will have help in the form of encouragement of your peers and trainers. Even those badass Marine Corps DI's get paid to train and show Marines how to succeed. Their mission is not to wash trainees out. Trainees wash themselves out. DIs train you and give you the tools to succeed at Bootcamp and OCS. Your peers are in the same boat as well. So expect them to help out. If you are weak in an area, they will help because they expect you do to do the same. See when you go to combat, you go as a unit, not individuals. But remember, it's a secret, don't tell any civilians.

I don't care which you do, I just think it's great that you are interested in stepping up to protect our way of life. Do you want to worry about what will become of our country and our the world our children will inherit or do you want to do something about it.

Good luck, I wish you all the best. SEMPER FI