D.w.i And Leo's..why Is This A Job Issue?

[gcc123]

Until now, officers arrested for driving while intoxicated have been kept on
restricted duty until the criminal charge was adjudicated, a process that
sometimes takes years. Under current policies, drunk-driving convictions that
do not involve injuries usually result in suspensions and the loss of vacation
time.

Mayor Giuliani defended the new hard-line. “That probably should have been the
rule from the very beginning,” he said. “You have to leave a little margin for
discretion. But let’s say the general rule for the Police Department should be
that if you get found to have been driving drunk, you should be dismissed from
the Police Department.”

I TRIED TO PUT THIS IN QUOTE'S BUT IT WOULDN'T WORK.. OK, MY QUESTION IS WHY SHOULD AN OFFICER, OR ANYONE IN LAW ENFORCEMENT LOSE THEIR JOB IF THEY GET A D.W.I.? I MEAN IN ALMOST ANY OTHER PROFESSION, THIS WILL NOT AFFECT YOUR JOB. IF I WAS A STOCKBROKER, FIANCIAL ANAYLYST..ETC AND I WENT OUT GOT SMASHED, AND TOTALED MY CAR AND RECIEVED A D.W.I I WOULD STILL HAVE MY JOB THE NEXT DAY!! BUT IF YOUR A LEO, YOUR JOB IS IN GREAT JEOPARDY!!

IN NO WAY I'M I TRYING TO PROMOTE DRINKING AND DRIVING, OR ENCOURAGING LEO'S TO DRINK, AND DRIVE I JUST WANT TO GET A BETTER UNDERSTANDING, AS TO WHY EQUAL TREATMENT ISN'T GIVEN TO LEO'S UNDER THIS MATTER!!!! WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK ABOUT THIS!

[stuka88]

As a law enforcement officer, you're held to a higher standard than everyone else. You're also sworn to protect the citizens of the community and uphold all laws. If you break a law yourself or do not conduct yourself in a manner appropriate for an individual in this profession, then you should not be serving as a law enforcement officer. Everyone knows this when they enter the profession and everyone accepts it. If they don't, then they usually don't have a very tenured stay in the field.

[rockyraider]

How can you expect to condim someone for doing something you are doing yourself? A defense attorney would tear up an officer on the stand who had arrested his client for DWI, and just last week had gotten one himself. It is common sence that those chosen to uphold the law should not be doing the same things they are arresting others for.

[Flatfoot003]

How can you expect to condemn someone for doing something you are doing yourself?

I for one don't look at locking someone up as condemning him or her. We as a LEO's are not judge, jury and executioner. We merely find probable cause and make the decision to arrest. While I agree that a defense attorney will use anything and everything he can get his hands on to have his client found innocent I seriously doubt that the argument "The officer did it last week, so it's O.K. for my client to also." would hold up as a defense. I have arrested a number of people for possession of marijuana even though I have smoked it several times prior in the past. LEO's are human beings and are prone to make mistakes, just like the rest of society. While I agree to the point that we are and SHOULD be held to a higher standard. Getting fired to being found DWI across the board, regardless of the circumstances is not smart or fair. If for example an officer is found DWI driving a take-home car and/or on duty, if you resist the officer dealing with you in any way, I would say bye bye. Driving home from dinner or a club and you cooperate fully with the arresting officer, it would look to me like you made a mistake and should be reprimanded but kept on the job.

Just my $0.02, Flatfoot003

[pointblanke]

All of the previous posts are right on the money, however there is another motiviation behind this too. That's right: Money. It is very expensive to insure police vehicles due to the maner in which they tend to be driven. Insurance rates will skyrocket for anyone with an OWI. Do the math and you will see that an officer with an OWI is a budget nightmare. Plus you'll find that in most states anyone holding a Commercial Driver's License has a much lower BAC standard to be convicted. It's .04% for a CDL in Wisconsin while the general public is at .10%. This is done because of the amount of time CDL holders spend on the road, combined with the types of vehicles they are driving (Semis). Police vehicles are no different. We drive fast during all weather conditions at all times of day. This makes an LEO with an OWI a major insurance hassle for the agency. Just another point I felt needed to be made.

[t-bome]

I agree that LEO's should be held to higher standards. But I find it real strange that you can't get a job as a LEO if you have a DUI (which I agree with)
But President Bush (who has a DUI on his record) could hold the highest office in the land and still have a DUI.........Makes sense.....huh?

[dan707]

If you get a DWI normally you would lose your license for some time and if your A stock broker or anything else you dont need a drivers license to do your job. In LE you need a license why should your dept keep you on the the job if you cant keep your license. Just my thoughts

[KSP hopeful]

I believe dan707 hit the nail on the head. All the previous posts have very good claims that they should be held to a higher standard and that it is an insurance nightmare, but to put it simply when you get a DUI you loose you license, and everyone knows police officers drive cruisers for a living and if you don't have a license you don't have a job. See a stockbroker still has a job as long as he gets to his office on time and does his job well. His boss doesn't worry if he took the bus, subway, or if he rode his bike to get the work. But an officer of the law has to drive a cruiser every single day to and from work with no way around it.

(Little side joke) Wouldn't it be funny seeing an officers wife drive him around and pulling people over because he lost his license. ;)

Disclaimer: The joke is not intended to be rude or inconsiderate just a little humor, if you are offended I am sorry.

BD

[Flatfoot003]

Well I know for a fact that here in NC you can get a limited driving prilege after being convicted of DWI and I know of at least two officers on our department who have gotten these and kept thier jobs. No, by the way, I'm not one of them. They are good officers who made a mistake and have thankfully gone on with their lives. We also had one officer you decided to get involved in a brawl at a bar then drive away from the place drunk, resisted the officers who stopped him in his vehicle and had to be sprayed. He got hit with DWI in that incident and did lose his job. It was due more to his conduct and not the DWI.

[nsedet]

Having worked EMS and heavy rescue, I have no tolerance for law enforcement officers who would drive under the influence. An officer so stupid as to drink and drive should be out of job. A mistake is one thing, but a DUI shows an incredibly high level of negligence...and an absolute lack of comprehension of what it means to be a cop. The officer is making a decision to place him- or herself, the community, and fellow officers at risk...think about that. Think about the NYPD officer a few years ago who was killed by a drunk, off-duty FDNY firefighter. How about the family that was killed by the drunk driving of an off-duty NYPD officer several months back? Any cop with any street time is certainly aware of the potential consequences of DUI, certainly moreso than your average stockbroker or analyst would be. I do not believe a LEO should face any greater, or lesser, criminal penalties than the average citizen for the same offense...but he or she certainly should be out of work.

[DelC]

Originally posted by pointblanke
. . . Plus you'll find that in most states anyone holding a Commercial Driver's License has a much lower BAC standard to be convicted. It's .04% for a CDL in Wisconsin while the general public is at .10%. . ..04% only applies to CDL's when operating a commercial vehicle, not while driving the family car. I imagine you're aware of this, but your post doesn't make it clear for those not currently in LE.

[Flatfoot003]

Originally posted by nsedet
I do not believe a LEO should face any greater, or lesser, criminal penalties than the average citizen for the same offense...but he or she certainly should be out of work.


Isn't losing one's job facing a greater penalty than the average citizen?

[RoscoeRuhl]

I am in agreement with nsedet on this one.

I don't think that a law enforcement officer should be subject to any less penalty than that of the citizen. Though the citizen may not lose a job as a direct result of driving while intoxicated, the law enforcement officer knows the consequences prior to getting behind the wheel. It does happen and I guess the decision to allow someone to stay on the job is that of the department and city administration to make. There's something to be said for credibility and it's something that you as a law enforcement officer cannot afford to lose!

Have a great day!

[Tampa_#63]

My take on this is as follows. As LEO's we have an awesome amount of powers, even more so than the president of the US. We have the power to take a citzen's civil liberty (restricting their freedom of movement) away from them, when we put them in hand cuffs. Not even the president can do this without the approval of congress, supreme court, changing the constitution etc. We don't have to have any approval. All we need is probable cause, and in some cases we can restrict that movement for less, such as investigative reasons and officer safety. A stock broker does not have such power, nor does any other profession. Someone brought up credibility, which is also a very important point.

You cannot accidently drive while intoxicated. Just like you cannot accidently smoke marijuana. These decisions are knowingly made by the person making them. As a LEO, if you commit such acts, then the agency has every right to terminate your employment.

Like it or not we are held to a higher standard than J. Q. Public, even the president. That is the nature of the beast considering the awesome power we LEO's possess.

[nsedet]

Originally posted by Flatfoot003
Isn't losing one's job facing a greater penalty than the average citizen?

Read what I wrote again:

"I do not believe a LEO should face any greater, or lesser, criminal penalties than the average citizen for the same offense...but he or she certainly should be out of work."

'CRIMINAL penalties' is the key part of that sentence.

[Flatfoot003]

Message received, thanks for clearing up that sentence for me. I was SWI(Surfing the net While Intoxicated), I have to look up my departments policy on that one.

[tcsd1236]

I don't know how you guys Downstate have been handling this issue, but officers who have been convicted of DWI shouldn't be allowed to stay on the force. Sorry, but thats a real stupid move on any officers part(driving drunk). If thats just now becoming policy down there, it's long overdue. I mean, ESPECIALLY for you urban officers. You have a wide variety of mass transit options available to you if you have been drinking..why drive your POV? Take a cab, have a buddy taake you home. You don't live out in the boonies where the only way to get home is to drive there yourself.

[Celtic Warrior]

I would have to agree with the majority on this one - higher standard, can't be done accidently etc... Also I don't know about most of you but if any or our people even get a traffic citation (on or off duty and yes we are bound to report the off duty ones) then we face agency recriminations for it.

There are very few exceptions in my book (working undercover and HAVING to drive an agency vehicle after drinking - I know it's not smart but when you meet a bad guy at the bar it's hard to order a diet coke for the evening's entertainment and then proceed with your meet - this happened to a friend of mine that I used to work with, wrapped our agency Porsche around a pole after a buy)

[gaboy]

Whether you guys out there think that LEO's shouldn't face stiffer penalties, the federal courts ruled that they should.

The comment about I smoked MJ in the past and now I'm a cop doesn't hold water. I'm sure if you were caught smoking pot now you would be dismissed.

DUI is a crime. I'm sure if you were caught stealing even if it was a shoplifting crime, you would probably lose your job. Its about character. Anyway I think they should lose their job.

I know cops are human and humans make mistakes but there are certain mistakes that must always be avoided. DUI's, Drugs, and wife beating.

Anyway stay safe and practice what you preach and you won't have any problems.