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  1. #1
    williamssd's Avatar
    williamssd is offline Rookie
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    Question "Have you ever been discharged/asked to resign" Question?

    Well, I haven't been around in a while. I was enjoying LE.

    The department I worked for suddenly (two month period) disciplined me for mistakes that I made, and I was later told that I "did not meet the department's performance expectations," and the chief had decided to terminate my employment. I was given the option to resign, however, which I took. I had 17 months with that department. It's a VERY long story, but I do disagree with the severity of the reprimands/discipline along with several other criminal justice professionals that know me (one is a retired Det. LT from my former department).

    Anyhow, my life in shambles, I'm considering making a weak attempt at getting back into the job again. However, I'm worried about how to discuss this at interviews (I know it's going to be asked), and also on an application that I'm completing now I'm asked, "As an employy have you ever been discharged or asked to resign?" How should I answer that question? I chose to resign, but that choice was made knowing they would terminate my employment anyhow. But, I was not asked the resign, and I wasn't discharged/terminated.

    Basically, it's all very upsetting and confusing. I can't see myself being happy in any other line of work. I'm basically ruled out my chances with FLE now, but if I could make it back to local LE I would be grateful. Thanks in advance for any advice.

    Respectfully,
    - Steve

  2. #2
    kels is offline Officer
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    Thumbs up This is not the end of the world

    If you like the job, try getting on somewhere else.
    I am assuming you have made it thru the academy.
    I have a friend who was forced to resign.
    Turned out the chief on the next dept knew his
    prior boss and took it as recommendation to hire him.
    The former boss was a walking cluster.....................
    The former boss's claim to fame according to other past officers is he can suck quarters out of a coke bottle. (ie suck up brown noser)
    Keep trying, sometimes it seems really bad before it gets better.

    PS try to add former unhappy officers from the same dept on your application for references. Former employees are a great place to look for dirt.
    Last edited by kels; 08-17-2003 at 19:02.

  3. #3
    unluckystrike Guest
    Since you had 17 months at your department, didn't you have civil service protection? I know this is water under the bridge, but maybe in a situation like this it would have been better to have called their bluff and fought the termination threat.

    I feel your pain. Even if you've done nothing wrong and your employer is shafting you, this usually gets consider as misconduct or negligence in employment.

    Maybe you should go back to your department and using charm get as many positive written and signed recommendations as you can. And if derogatory information is given by someone from this department, pull out your recommendations.

  4. #4
    Kahuna5150's Avatar
    Kahuna5150 is offline Da' Kine Moderator
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    icon22.gif

    I agree 100% with unluckystrike. I know this is hind sight, but maybe it will help you (or someone else on the board) now or in the future. Usually when a department says you're not meeting expectations and offers to let your resign (especially at 17 months.. I'll assume you had an 18 month probationary period like most departments) you really have to weigh out if you should resign or not. If you feel the discipline you got was not of a termination nature I would say, "No thanks I won't resign, I wanna try and make it".

    If they terminate you anyway, they have to justify it (not usually on probation, but more so than if you just quit yourself). If you feel it's a fair description of your skills at the job then resigning might not be a bad choice. You can go to a smaller, slower, or different PD and explain that you felt you weren't cut out for "X" department and you decided to hit another department.

    Most departments aren't doing you a favor by letting you resign. Having done BI's myself in the past, my first question for a guy/gal that "resigned" at 17 months would be, "You were about to get fired? Why?". Very few people resign at 17 months and then try and get back into LE (IMHO). If you resign at 17 months and need a BI for another type of job, maybe, but otherwise I don't see that very often.

    Good luck either way!

    Kahuna

  5. #5
    DelC's Avatar
    DelC is online now The Wisest Moderator
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    Lightbulb Re: "Have you ever been discharged/asked to resign" Question?

    Originally posted by williamssd
    . . . on an application that I'm completing now I'm asked, "As an employy have you ever been discharged or asked to resign?" How should I answer that question? . . .
    Yes; I chose to resign, because the said they were going to teminate me.

    What the next dept will really want to know is; What was the nature of the acts that lead to your discipline? (Major crap or minor)

    Like Kels pointed out, it could work in your favor, or depending on the circumstances, you may have to wait a few years before a dept will hire you. Or, you may be washed out entirely. Without knowing the details of your discipline it's really hard to give any solid advice.
    DelC
    “You never know if quotes on the internet are genuine or not" . . . Abraham Lincoln

  6. #6
    williamssd's Avatar
    williamssd is offline Rookie
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    Talking A little more info...

    A series of three disciplinary actions took place in about three months. A LT put me on paper for insubordination/failing to follow dept. policy/violating state DV statutes. The insubordination was supposed to have originated by me not towing a vehicle when I was ordered to (I did tow it, but it was 14 days later due to poor time-management on my part -- which I admitted to -- but I never grumbled or refused to follow the LT's order). The rest came from same LT at a later time regarding a domestic that I investigated. Victim makes complaint to me at the PD. Has no physical signs of injury and is 7 days after the time of the incident. Victim moved to a new residence the day of the incident, and has not had any contact with/from/by the suspect over a weeks time. Victim claims a broken ear drum, went to the hospital, but can't remember which hospital(s) we went to for treatment. Also can't remember his new address, only his telephone number. I do a very detailed interview, but didn't get a written statement like I should have, and told victim to call my voicemail with his address. Victim gives me suspect's work address. I tell same LT the basics on this incident, and that I'm going to try to find suspect. He agrees, and I leave. I interview suspect, who denies everything, except a slap to the victim's face. I return to the PD (no mandatory arrest, because of the way I interpretted state statute). I tell LT. LT goes ballistic and orders me to call victim and have him come to the PD to give me a written statement and then if I can't arrest suspect to give the report to night shift and have them arrest him. LT goes off-duty. I try calling the victim, no answer. Victim only calls my voicemail and leaves his current address. I'm unable to get the written statement or medical releases. I inform on-duty (new) LT, and he tells me to just leave what I have, and continue tomorrow. It took me a few days, but I did get the statement, medical releases, and made the felony substantial battery arrest. LT says that he ordered me to arrest the suspect when I first told him that I was going to try to find the suspect (which he did not, because I didn't ask for any advice). I told LT and Inspector that with the information I had (time between incident and report, no signs of physical injury, and that there was no reasonable belief that injury would continue -- suspect and victim did not live together -- that mandatory arrest was not needed. They disagreed. To my credit, two ADA's agreed with how I investigated that report, and I would jeopardized the case and brought upon liability issues had arrested the suspect without the medical release forms completed. The ADA who prosecutes DV crimes also said that mandatory arrest did not apply in that case. I got one day out of that.

    Next, I went to a civil standby and didn't realize it was a DV 72-hour No Contact standby. Female half wasn't there, I checked the house and instructed the male half to get his clothes and leave in 15 minutes. I left. That one was completely my fault, and I admitted that. Took three days for that one and probation was extended.

    Incident that bought the farm, involved me locating a vehicle that contained a wanted female. Anonymous caller stated that wanted female had just dropped her kids off, and was leaving in a blue minivan (anon. caller and female suspect were supposedly friends). I have dealt with the female on several occasions, along with her oldest daughter (16 yo). I stop the van, and lots of backup is there. Two front occupants are not wanted female, and claim to not know where she is. There say they were evicted and were hauling their property to a new location (there was lots of sh*t in the back of the minivan). While waiting for driver's DL info to come back, a home invasion/threatening male -- in progress -- comes in, and all of my back leaves. No problem, wanted female isn't there I'm about to release the van. I get the quick gut feeling to check the back of the van anyhow. Driver gives consent to just look in. Nothin in the back hatch, I ask again for permission to open the sliding side door. Permission granted, and I see feet sticking out from under a large blanket. Wanted woman is taken into custody (after having to go hands-on). While in my squad, she claims she only ran from jail (work release) because she's afraid for her safety and her daughter's (16 yo). She asks me to put her in contact with DEA regarding a major drug deal. I ask her about the drug deal, and she asks for a "deal" in return for information. I tell her I can't do that, and that I think she's lying. I know from previous contacts that this woman will lie about the sky being blue, and is a convicted felon, etc. She was suspected of pimping off her daughter to two black males in exchange for drugs, but the 16 yo wouldn't cooperate with LE (surprise). Now she tells me that she's afraid of this drug dealer, and that she thinks her 16 yo daughter is having sex with him, and that she's afraid for her daughter's safety as well. I'm thinking she's just talking to try to get out of mess she's in now, and besides that her 16 yo is with the "anonymous caller" and is safe. Simple warrant arrest. I tell her to tell her Probation Agent about everything, they would look into the drugs and her daughter's safety. Two days later, 16 yo runs away, and wanted female makes a complaint to the PD. I'm investigated for failing to report a child in danger, and susquently told I will be terminated. They offer me the chance to resign. I later find out from the Special Investigator at the DA's Office (retired Det. LT of 26 years from my former dept.) that this "report" has been investigated twice and been deemed unfounded each time, due to wanted female's and 16 yo daughter's lack of cooperation. I told Inspector that I did not intend to leave the child-in-danger part out of my report, but knew it was false based upon prior experience and information from the day of the arrest (two days prior to 16 yo daughter running away). I would never fail to protect a kid -- I'm also a substitute teacher for ******'s sake! It just didn't click with me that that was a time to report a child in danger.


    Anyhow, that is the "short" version of what happened during my last three months. My three recruit school instructors, two ADA's, many of the Probation Agents, all of the dispatchers (former dispatchers with my old dept.), two of my FTO's, many very senior patrol officer's I worked with, the retired Det. LT all agreed that I got sucked into the "politics vortex."

    I completely agree that I did make mistakes in all of those incidents, but I do not agree with the mistakes that the LT and Inspector say that I did, nor the level of discipline I was given. Maybe I'm wrong, I just don't know.

    Anyhow, I'm requesting a copy of my entire personnel/working file from the department, and I'm requesting a copy of radio transmissions on the day that I found the wanted female, because I'm certain the dispatchers stated that the wanted female's kids were with the anonymous caller at that time.

    Now I get to worry about explaining all of that in an interview without coming off as someone who just makes excuses for my mistakes.

    I do REALLY appreciate the help and encouragement. I'm hoping I'll get a second chance to redeem myself with a different department, and that I haven't disgraced too many fellow officers by my mistakes. Thank you all again.

    - Steve
    Last edited by williamssd; 08-18-2003 at 15:33.

  7. #7
    Kahuna5150's Avatar
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    icon22.gif Re: A little more info...

    Steve,

    Just reading your explinations below, I would personally say you made the right choice to resign. You have a few serious issues there that are of concern. As a new officer you should be taking paper on everything. When in doubt you should be taking the report no matter what. One of the biggest complaints I hear from veteran officers, FTOs, and administrators is the attitude of new or rookie officers. Now please understand I am not saying you're one of these, but the impression is certainly there. I remember when I first started (and talking to my friends that started when I did and before me) and we took a report on almost everything. It was almost a right of passage that you didn't dare kiss off or avoid taking paper until you had enough time on the job to make the right choice not to take the report.

    Your first incident involves a LT. telling you to tow a vehicle. You say it took you *14* days to get around to doing it? You say it was "poor time management" on your part. Maybe a day or two delay *MAYBE* could be considered "poor time management", but there's no excuse for a 14 day delay. It shouldn't take more than 30 mins to tow a car in most cases (I don't know how it works in WI), but in CA you can fill out the tow slip and have the tow truck on scene within 30 mins in almost all cases. If your LT. said to tow it (and being new), I would have towed it on my lunch break, or even after my shift had ended if I had to just to get it done. Now I'm not going into the big FLSA of working for free or after work or whatever, but overall you should be able to find 30 minutes somwhere in your shift to tow it. As a LT. or veteran officer I would think "This new guy "rookie" is told to do something by the LT and doesn't do it for 14 days?!". Even a veteran officer who has "paid his/her dues" wouldn't let it slide for 14 days. In most cases a veteran officer gets a little more slack and when they recognize even they couldn't let something slide that long they would probably find it a bit much for the new guy to do it.

    As for the DV report. Again WI might be different, but it sounds like you guys have a DV law close to CA law. Mandatory reporting, mandatory arrests in some cases, etc? You say the victim claims a broken ear drum? Here in CA that's considered a serious injury (felony). You admit you didn't get a written statement that you should have and to your credit you recognize this and admit it. Of course this also gives the impression that you didn't consider it to be much of a big deal. Granted a lot of reports we take (and will take) are BS and really a waste of time in many cases, but you take them not only because the law and PD policy says you will, but more importatnly to "CYA" Cover your ass! From your own description it sounds like you were a little annoyed with the time delay in the report, the weak inability of the victim to "remember" the hospital he was treated in and I'm sure maybe the reason to suddenly report it (is there a child custody issue now? are you now being used (the police) to get even with or scare the other party). These are all very annoying things that we *ALL* get sick of being drug into. It is hard to feel like going the extra mile when you are almost certain you're just being used and not needed by a true victim. Again you need to just do the job. You get paid the same to take 1 report or 10 per shift. It's a job... If you were at a factory assembling parts and you later found out the parts weren't being used, would you stop assembling them? Of course not... You're paid for a product or service, it's shouldn't affect (and I know easy to say, hard to do) how you handle your job.

    Again the same LT. said to make the arrest. You said you didn't think the mandatory arrest applied. Again I would say you have the LT. (who you're already not in good graces with) ordering you to take care of something and you're still not doing it right away. I know you asked the other on-duty LT. what do to and he/she released you, but you had to have known how much the other LT. wanted you to get it done. Again the issue isn't if you felt the "mandatory" section applied, but rather if you had enough to make the arrest (mandatory or not). Mandatory means you *HAVE* to make the arrest. If you had enough to make it outside the mandatory arrest, it was still MANDATORY (as the LT. told you to do it).

    As for the civil standby on the DV-72 hour no contact. Again to your credit you admit it was your mistake. You took 3 days on the beach for this. I was with a local PD for over 9 years and *NEVER* took a day on the beach. Even the guys/gals at my department that got into trouble never took more than a day or two on the beach (all off probation). Those that would be getting more than 3 days on the beach usually were terminated (and these are 5+ year veteran officers). Most trainees or probationary officer faced with 3 days on the beach are normally just released from probation on the spot. If you're getting that kind of time off while on probation, most won't take the risk letting you get off probation. Again this is not an attack on you, I'm just giving you the scoop on what I've seen in departments in CA that I am personally familiar with.

    Your final incident is a big one as well. We *ALL* know of the local criminal/dirtbag that has a *TON* of things to report once they're going to jail. I know I am annoyed by it as much as the next guy, but once someone makes a claim of child abuse, suicide, or some other mandatory report type allegation I make sure I document it *EVERY TIME*. I also make sure I do as much of an investigation as I can on the new information (no matter how stupid or fake it sounds) to protect myself and *JUST IN CASE* it's a real issue. You have a mother going to jail who now claims her 16 year old daughter is being exploited and could be in immediate danger? You need to make sure you do something about it. Taking a report, documenting your attempts to locate, having a national BOL issued, contacting Child Protective Services, notifying detectives and the watch commander and DOCUMENTING all the steps you took covers you and will at least possibly cover the victim if it's really happening.

    Again it sounds like you have justified why you didn't take any action (like you should have) based on your prior contacts and opinion of the RP (the gal you're arresting). Again even most veteran officers won't play around with a case like this and grit their teeth and just take the paper and go through the motions on it (to cover themselves even though they truely feel it's a BS report). Again the first question most would have is why as a new officer are you not taking the report that they themselves (as veteran officers) would be taking.

    Again Steve, please don't take any of this personally or as a judgement on you. This is just my impression of your situation you described and the impressions you give to me as a non-involved party just based on your own statements. These are issues I'm sure you'll find with any BI at any future department. This is in addition to the information the BI finds from your old LT and co-workers. Hopefully this will give you some idea of how to best approach the concerns when you're asked about them from a new BI. Maybe communication was the problem, maybe the workload at the department, either way I would make sure you acknowledge the mistakes made, how you can avoid them in the future, and how you have learned from the exp.

    Good luck!

    Kahuna

  8. #8
    williamssd's Avatar
    williamssd is offline Rookie
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    Unhappy

    Kahuna,

    Thanks for the honesty. Your points are exactly what I'm struggling with... I just can't fully describe the situation unless I'm speaking with someone in person.

    The towing of the car, I had the senior LT teaching us rookies that we should make an effort to find and contact the owner, which I started to do. Then I get sucked into calls. My thoughts were, the vehicle is totally crap and isn't going anywhere -- I'm needed elsewhere. Well, then the reports start piling up, and I fight with them while keeping my research on the owner of the vehicle. Then, I finally get it towed. I actually went back to see if I really was as busy as I thought I was, and found that of all of the guys I work with on 2nd shift over that two week period, I took nearly twice as many calls/complaints as the next most busy officer. Again, I still do not want that to be my "excuse," but that it lead to the time management problem. I should have just done like you said and towed it on a lunch break or something.

    Regarding the DV report, it was something I took very serious and just my initial narrative was three pages long. Our DV statute on mandatory arrest:

    "The officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the person is committing or has committed domestic abuse and that the person's actions constitute the commission of a crime; and either or both of the following circumstances are present:

    The officer has a reasonable basis for believing that continued domestic abuse against the alleged victim is likely.

    There is evidence of physical injury to the alleged victim."

    I didn't have a reasonable basis for continued abuse, and I couldn't see the guy's eardrum (no other signs of injury). This was a homosexual domestic incident, but I still take them all very seriously. When the first LT told me to contact the victim for a written statement, I tried several times to call -- which I documented -- but couldn't get in contact with him. I even asked the next shift LT if he wanted me to work over to keep working the report. He said no, to simply leave a copy of the report as it stood.

    As for dirtbag mom and her daughter, I was under the impression that the daughter was with a responsible adult when mom was claiming she was in danger. Regarding the 16yo and mom's claims of her being sexually assaulted, I asked dirtbag mom if she (daughter) would give me a statement and cooperate regarding the sexual contact, and I was told no. The teaching experience I have (also a madatory reporter) was with kids who were obviously abused, or I saw their parent(s) act inappropriately towards them. This just didn't set off that alarm in my head to take action (though it should have). I certainly did not intentionally fail to make the report.

    Still, I think you for your honest response. Like I said, I'll try and get hired again, but I'm certainly not hopeful about it. All of the people listed in the prior post all said that someone had it out for me for some reason. This whole experience has just made me really doubt myself and my abilities now, which also worries me.

    Thanks again, Kahuna, for the honesty. As a former BI, I'm sure you'd probably drop me off the list, or certainly knock me down quite a way.

    At the very least, I hope future rookies will learn a lot from my "experiences."

    Take care everyone,
    - Steve
    Last edited by williamssd; 08-18-2003 at 17:31.

  9. #9
    CaptRidley's Avatar
    CaptRidley is offline Lieutenant
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    If you apply anywhere else, which I hope you will be sure to mention everything you mentioned here, as one way or the other they are going to find out. Better to hear your version first, and then have the BI figur out what is what. In any event you will have to explain your story twice, during the interview and again the BI interview.

    I hope it all works out for you.

    Out here!!!
    Mike-D
    Today, I have given all that I can give.
    That which I have kept, I have lost forever.

  10. #10
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    Hi Steve,

    The car tow... Fairly minmal in the overall grand scheme of things. Tow a piece of garbage car today or 2 weeks from now and it's not likely to affect the city, citizens, or the crime fighting in anwyay. Again the big thing here is the judgement to let it sit for so long. I have no doubt you were very busy during your shifts and if you took twice as many calls as everyone else on your shift that proves you were busy (unless everyone else took 0 calls.. hehehe). Again though you have to think back to this 14 day period of time. Did you *AT ANY TIME* sit around and BS for 10 or 20 mins during *ANY* of those days? Take an extra 5mins here or there chatting with dispatch or someone else in the building? Take an extra 5 mins or your lunch or coffee break? If the answer is "no" I'd be very surprised. As busy as we all are at work sometimes we often find that 5 mins to run into the quick mart for a pepsi or some other diversion (we need them and there's nothing wrong with it), but otherwise unless you were out in the boonies somewhere or on a secluded fixed post you probably had a lot of free time (if you took the 5 mins to 10 mins here and there and added them all up). Again no biggie, just an area to consider. When someone says they were burried in calls and reports for 14 days straight I would raise an eyebrow. Even guys humping *SUPER BUSY* beast with NYPD and LAPD admit they are able to get a break in there somewhere (over a 14 day period of time). This is based on people I have talked to and is not true in all situations, but you get the jist...

    As for your DV report. You list one area "There is evidence of physical injury to the alleged victim". You are correct that you can't "see" an ear drum, but you can't "see" internal trauma on a sexual assault, or internal bleeding, or any other multitude of injuries. Often the rule of thumb is that if someone is claiming some type of internal injury you have to rely on medical personnel to confirm this. Not being simplistic here, but if a woman was holding her side and said her husband had kicked her (and there was no evidence of injury), would you refuse to arrest the husband? Or would you detain him long enough to have a Dr. or other medical person check it? I had an elderly man complain of hip pain after he was pushed on the ground by his son-in-law. No visible signs of injury... He went to the hospital.. Broken hip... Felony Battery... Again I know this guy said he had a broken ear drum and went to the Hospital already, but couldn't remember what hospital. Sounds like a cluster of a call to me as well, but again you need to CYA yourself. Take the guy by his little hand and get him back to the hospital and confirm. If he refuses and/or isn't cooperative then I would still write it up and document all that.. All about covering your bases...

    You said you tried to call the victim several times. Any reason you didn't drive to the victims house? If it was out of your city, or against your policy, or whatever, no problem. If not, be prepared to answer why you didn't drive over there. I have *OFTEN* tried to call a victim only to get no answer or the machine. I drive over 10 minutes after the call and bang on the door and they answer. Victim was sleeping, on the other line, etc, etc. Pain in the ass I know, but again you have to show what you're doing. If the other LT. told you to secure, there's not much you can do about that, but again you don't want to give the impression you're "Supervisor Shopping" going to more than one supervisor until you get the answer (go home) you're looking for. Again I understand your frustration. It's hard to explain all the details on the situations on an online forum like this, but this goes both ways. I hope (and think you are) you are getting my intent by posting this to you... Just some thoughts I have and hopefully enough to keep your wheels spinning (and anyone else that might find use for this) in your head.

    Ahh dirtbag mom and daughter. I would say a good rule of thumb is anything to do with DV, DUI, juveniles, threats (both to harm others and/or themselves), and sex assaults should be taken *VERY* seriously at *ALL* times.

    You have a claim (no matter how outrageous and typical of your suspect) involving her juvenile daughter. If mom doesn't cooperate she herself is probably in violation of the law by allowing her daughter to be put into danger without cooperating. At the very least if she is claiming some type of abuse or danger and will not cooperate you probably have enough to get protective custody of the daughter on that fact alone. Married couple and the dad is beating or molesting the daughter. Mom won't cooperate (for whatever reason). We grab the kids and put them in protective custody. If mom is aware of the abuse and doesn't stop it or cooperate, then she goes to jail as well. Again WI is different than CA in many ways, but I'm sure these laws are pretty standard across the US.

    As with anything you read here (by me and/or anyone else) take what you hear as what it is meant to be. Advice and an opinion. I can say you'll have 100% no problem getting back into LE. Don't take that as the gospel anymore than if I told you that you'd have 100% no chance of getting back into LE. Opinions are great, but they aren't what matters. At least not my opinion or anyone else on the boards (unless of course they are going to be hiring you ). I personally don't think you're out of LE now. I think you can most certainly get hired again. Some will agree, some will say no way, others will say "X" agency stinks but "Y" agency is the best. ETC. ETC. ETC.

    If I was doing your background (in person obviously not on a board) I can't say you'd be washed at all. Are you mature? Have you learned? Are these common mistakes? Are you going to be making them *ALL THE TIME?*. Lots of things to consider. Certainly you're in a much better place than a guy/gal with less of a background who says, "Yeah they fired me, screw them that department sucks anyway... I did nothing wrong! They picked on me... I heard they were sued and now they don't hire white/black/green/purple/men/women/dogs anymore". You get the point.

    Don't give up. If you want a job in LE, go back for more. Just take what you've learned and make use of it. Maybe you need a smaller slower department to start? Maybe a bigger faster paced department is what you need. Only you know (as long as you give yourself an honest and tough self eval). Perhaps being a street cop is not for you.. Maybe you were born to be a ranger, game warnden, state patrol officer, airport officer, school officer, fed, etc, etc. I can think of 100 jobs in LE I would *NEVER* want to do, at the same time 100 that I would *LOVE* to do. Thank god we all have these different tastes and choices, or we'd all be scrambling to be a Swat member with the yellowstone national forest park police CIA division.



    Kahuna

  11. #11
    williamssd's Avatar
    williamssd is offline Rookie
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    Post The help and encouragement is really appreciated...

    Thanks, Kahuna, you're doing exactly what I wanted... playing "devil's advocate" and making sure I'm thinking about all of this from all the angles. I have to say I do feel guilty about sharing all of this because I just keep getting back to thinking I'm merely making excuses for myself.

    I do consider myself mature, and I've certainly learned. I remember my old boss in college when I was doing computer administration, he kept a separate mailbox in Outlook that was titled "CMA" -- he always, always told me to save documentation to cover my a**. As much as I thought I was doing that, I guess I wasn't doing it well enough.

    I can also say, too, that I'm not the person to pass blame, etc. This is what I'm fighting with in my mind the most; I don't agree with how my Inspector or the LT handled these incidents, but at the same time I know I screwed up and I'll always admit when I do. I just look back now and think, dammit I'm educated and have common sense and I still made stupid mistakes.

    DelC, Kahuna, Kels, Unluckystrike, CaptRidley, and everyone I may have missed, I seriously owe you all a debt of gratitude. If any of you are ever in Central Wisconsin, I'll always have a cold beer ready for ya'!

    I'll keep you informed about my progress. Thanks again,
    - Steve

  12. #12
    unluckystrike Guest
    WilliamSSD,

    I still think it might have been better to have called the bluff, hung around and resisted termination. But I can see that you didn't want the record to state you were terminated.

    If it's any consolation, I think the individual(s) in your department got it in their head to terminate you before your probation ended. Whether this was because you didn't ingratiate yourself with the said individuals or some other improper motive, I don't think it was for those minor mishaps. It's very easy to trump up issue-you could be totally in the right and it still can be misconstrued as misconduct. I wasn't there, but it's possible not getting that junk car towed for 2 weeks started the sequence of events. The fact this all happened the in the last 3 months of your 17 months of employment is very suspicious.

    Unfortunately, I think most LE agencies won't see this for what it was, a combination of a personality conflict, a rookie mistake, and you just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Usually, even if your employer shafted you and is patently malicious, no one will care. All they'll care about is that it happened. I think this is because even if they believed you were unlucky, they have a lot of applicants to choose from that weren't unlucky.

    It's really tough to restore your reputation. However, you do have some LE experience. I think if you can get people that will go to bat for you at this department and give you signed recommendations, you might be able to counterbalance the negative impact.

  13. #13
    Sig 20 Guest

    DO NOT BEAT UR HEAD ON THE WALL....

    This kinda of thing happens...it happened to me...I just answer the questions this way:

    1. I was a rookie, and I made some mistakes, no excuses...

    2. HOWEVER...I have looked back on all my calls, analized them to death, and have used what I did wrong as examples for what I KNOW NOT TO DO AGAIN (be prepared with some examples!!!)

    3. I have matured from this experience and grown thru my willingness at being able to be adult enough to say I made mistakes. I have taken them seriously enough to hopefully NOT REPEAT THEM, and have taken the time to pick thru all my law enforcement books, by asking veteran officers, and being able to know the correct approach to the situations if faced with them again.

    4. Final SHORT STATEMENT: The department and I just simply were not a fit for one another. I DO know that I am a fit for your department, I hope that you choose me, because I WOULD NOT HAVE TRIED TO APPLY HERE, based on my background, if I did not think I was going to be on eof the BEST CANDIDATES.


    Good Luck!
    HANG IN THERE!! IF YOU WANT IT BAD ENOUGH IT WIL HAPPEN.

    SIG 20

  14. #14
    williamssd's Avatar
    williamssd is offline Rookie
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    Talking more questions...

    As mentioned here already, it is better for me to bring up this subject before a BI finds out. How would all of you recommend that I bring this up during an interview? Also, at what point should I bring it up in the process (if I get that far)?

    I've actually got four different applications out now, all with departments that I think I would enjoy. I also have an app out for insurance investigator, but I've heard many of them aren't happy with the job. I can honestly say, though, that I doubt I'll be happy with anything other than LE. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

    Thanks again for the help,
    - Steve

  15. #15
    Sig 20 Guest

    Let them be the ones to bring it 2 u

    Just from experience, I waited until they broached the subject with me. (At the Oral Baord). They should know whats going on based on your application. I did not give them any more ammo than they needed.

    I kept my personal feelings out of it and to myself, about any bad blood, or feelings of the agency that dropped me, especially if I felt they were trying to dig hard.

    I think if you need time to heal, then take it before you start applying...because if you are defensive it will show. DON'T, DON'T BANG YOU'RE HEAD ON THE WALL! YOU CAN DO IT AGAIN AND BE SUCCESSFUL!

    If you feel LEO is the path for you, then stick to it, you and I had the same path. While its not easy to get back on, it can be done. You may, like me have to start over in a smaller dept. as a Reserve LEO, then bid you're time and earn back you're rep. Its a slow recovery, but, it can happen!

    Like I said, let them broach the subject with you, keep your explaination simple and minimum. (READ ABOVE REPLY)^ GOOD LUCK!


 
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