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Thread: Gay in the squadroom
03-10-2012, 08:18 #16Lieutenant
- Join Date
- Oct 2004
- In counseling...
The Old Man in the Sea...
I don't view my comments regarding your "gaydom" a reduction in the least...if you would have introduced yourself as a Kenyan Italian American Male, LEO, in Dallas, TX, who digs his 1960 Camero SS, barbecuing, the Arizona Cardinals, and the Wesley Snipes movie "To Wong Foo"...and I would have inquired...which kind of gay are you?
THAT would have been a reduction...
Everyone doesn't care about homosexuality...but it's quite obvious you do...which is fine...but if its okay for you to care about it...its okay for me not to...or its okay for me to have never considered it...or its okay for me to despise it...
In deference to your query as to my experience level...
I am a fed, criminal investigator and I am retirement eligible...a great strength of mine is mitigation...I can reduce a four alarm fire to a mosquito bite...which REALLY irritates the hell out of everybody when they think they're doing God's work...I have this silliness down to a science...because its not about you or me...its about the jackass that is acting like an idiot and has drawn our attention...the rest is pointless and a waste of time...which REALLY, REALLY irritates the hell out of upper management because their purpose in life is to complicate things in a effort to keep me away from my kids...because they think they're doing God's work...
Incapacity, inability, or stupidity of my co-workers pisses me off too because their lack of execution keeps me away from my kids...I'm done with stupid...no longer have the patience for it...I wouldn't tolerate adults bullying one another...it slows down my process and just makes for a nasty place to work...
However...I'm only responsible for my sphere of influence and I cannot control the motivations, thoughts, and actions of others...to feel other wise wouldn't make me very zen...
I appreciate your selection of James Joyce...CC"Every hero becomes a bore at last." Ralph Waldo Emerson
03-11-2012, 03:01 #17Banned
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
that doesn't seem like something a cop should say...
03-11-2012, 03:31 #18
Apologies to all, but we had some low intellect posters, who used hate language and don't belong here . Posts were removed."Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -- Jorge Santayana
03-11-2012, 05:27 #19
IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m a little late to the party as well, so first and foremost. Welcome to the boards. ItÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s always good to have people from all walks of life on the boards as they are in all occupations and groups out here in the real world as well.
Having said that, I have IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll jump into the mix here and ask you a few things about your original post. You write institutions cannot discriminate based on race, gender, ethnicity, national original, and sexual orientation. You are absolutely correct about this. If you are being denied promotional opportunities, special assignments, etc. based on the fact you are gay, then you most certainly have a right to be protected from such behavior.
As ATF SAC said. You can change behavior, but not hearts and minds. Since weÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re being blunt here as we all share, let me give you my personal take on my experiences with gay officers and gay civilians. Not all of course, but speaking in generalities (as you did in your initial post).
Many of the gay officers/agents I have met (as well as civilian folks) did not have valid complaints (in my opinion) against the agencies or organizations they worked for, or even against any of their co-workers for any sort of discriminatory action. To the contrary, in this day and age I would go out on a limb here and say most folks, agencies, and organizations, both private and government are HYPER SENSITIVE to issues involving sexual harassment, discrimination, etc.
Does that mean it never happens? Of course it will never be eliminated 100% (as long as we human being continue to be imperfect, weÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ll still see people do stupid things that make us scratch our headsÃ¢â‚¬Â¦ Be it the boss who propositions or harasses a subordinate employee for sex, the guy or gal who downloads porn on their work computer, etc). I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t know where you work (and I donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t want to know), but my guess is if you made a complaint alleging some form of harassment by someone at your department (be it true or not), they would conduct a full investigation into your allegation. In this day and age they just canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t afford not to.
Having said all that, I have to say in reading between the lines in your postÃ¢â‚¬Â¦ IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m getting the felling your real beef is the acceptance by others of sexual preference. Some people fell being gay is an unacceptable way of life. Do they have a right to push this belief onto you and compel you to be straight? No they do not. Do they have a right to this belief/opinion? I personally believe they do. Do they have a right to not back you up at work, not treat your professionally like every other co-worker? No they do not, and if they do you definitely need to take some action (as this is a safety issue).
Now if these folks are choosing not to eat lunch with you, get together with you socially outside work, etc. Do you have a complaint? On a personal level you sure do. I can imagine how hurtful it could be to not be invited to the social things outside work, or to even eat with people on your shift on duty. At the same time this is their right as much as it is yours to live your life as you see fit. Being excluded from social groups and clicks of co-workers outside work is not a gay only issue. Trust me, many folks get excluded for any number of reasons outside their sexual orientation.
Would I feel comfortable backing you up on a call or being backed up by you? Depending on what quality officer you are I would make my decision on that. If youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢re professional, squared away, not afraid to be a team player and to get in the mix and youÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve earned that opinion from me (as I would have to earn from you) then IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d trust you with my life and would risk my own to cover you. Outside of work and on a social level, would I feel comfortable having you and your partner to my house for dinner with my family and kids? I guess the real question is, do I feel comfortable or think itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s appropriate to have to explain to my young children what being gay is at this point in their lives? Would I be uncomfortable with you and your partner showing affection (hand holding, kissing, etc) like a straight couple might do in front me or my family? It honestly sounds uncomfortable (just being honest here).
You canÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t make people (be it religious reasons, upbringing, etc) change their deep rooted personal beliefs. You can make them be professional and punish them for not being so. Some folks eventually come around and begin to accept differences on a personal level, sometimes ironically itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s when the most conservative person finds out their own son or daughter is gay. Some folks never come around and thatÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s OK too. Just as long as their own personal values donÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t interfere with their official duties.
In my opinion only of course.
Last edited by Kahuna5150; 03-11-2012 at 05:30.Humuhumunukunukuapua'a
04-06-2012, 01:28 #20Officer
- Join Date
- Nov 2003
- North Texas
This is one of the weirder threads I have read on the forum...
However I also could care less what the sexual orientation of my coworkers is.
04-06-2012, 16:18 #21
You'll notice it's been quite quiet since these initial posts."Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -- Jorge Santayana
04-08-2012, 13:33 #22
Speaking solely for myself, I'm more offended by a married heterosexual supervisor [no longer in my chain of command] having an affair [particularly when it's allegedly with someone which brings up the issue of "conflict of interest"] than someone who is a homosexual.
Last edited by esflea; 04-08-2012 at 13:54. Reason: add to add "hetero" since "married" now incudes same sex.ESFLEA
Life is what happens while you're planning other things.
04-08-2012, 20:36 #23The kindest moderator
- Join Date
- Aug 2000
- New York City
I'm late to this party as well, but wanted to say a few things.
1. Welcome aboard.
2. In some way, we all carry some form of bias against types or groups of people or institutions, etc. It's a question of whether or not we can ignore those personal biases or not show them publicly. I personally could care less about someones sexual orientation.
3. I come from Ground Zero of gay rights, NYC - NYPD. Home of "Stonewall" where argueably it all started. Since then, we started what I believe to have been the first Gay and lesbian Officers Association. The first members from back in the day had some balls (no pun intended). Can you imagine coming out of the closet as a big bad NYPD officer back in the 1980's??
I've met and worked with many gay and lesbian officers and state and federal agents and have a few friends who are G & L. I can say that only one thing disturbs me within the G & L community. The overt sex acts. I can only speak for what I've seen for decades here in NYC. Over the many years that I worked the Gay Pride parade, every year I have witnessed numerous public sex acts. The two guys in a convertible with its top down, waiting on a side street for their turn to drive onto the parade route and walking over to see them engaged in oral sex - The over the top outfits with guys wearing nothing but chaps or thongs on floats driving down 5th ave in broad daylight, etc. You just don't see these types of over the top sex acts, etc during the St Patricks Day Parade, etc.
Other than that, equality is the name of my game. I've found that many gay bashers are actually 'straight' guys that are fighting some homosexual desires themselves. And for those who are closed minded, wake up! There are TONS or wealthy, high profile, corporate CEO's, etc who are gay. Some are out of the closet, some are not, some just don't publicly announce their sexual preference and some go both ways. This planet, the people on it, beliefs, desires, etc are changing - I can't tell you how many women I've met who one day are dating men and the next a women, and the next a man and the next a woman --- Or guys who are the same and don't date based on gender, but simply based on what they refer to as "the quality of the person" or their attraction to "the person", not the gender. It's a new day folks, love it or hate it, this is 2012.
04-09-2012, 23:59 #24