Thread: ATF 2012 Hiring - Part Deux

@Whatchagot

Do you have any idea how the PFT is scored? Is there a point system for each event or an overall achievement rating such as satisfactory, good, excellent, outstanding?

Good advice as always from ATF SAC. Somewhere in this thread I believed we discussed at length the difference between ATF and some of our counterparts. We are not the place for everyone, and it is getting harder and harder to leave for another agency. Make sure you would be happy here before making yourself-- and the rest of us-- miserable.

ForensicPsych10--

I think the test is scored according to this chart on the ATF website: ATF Online - Careers - Special Agents - ATF Pre-employment Physical Task Test My understanding is that you must achieve the minimum score in each event. Failing any one event means you're done. To my knowledge, there is no extra credit for scores better than those minimums. I do not think they will rank PT tests by numerical score and use those scores to determine who moves on. I believe it is pass/fail for progressing in the process.

ATF is at a transition point on this particular issue. The agency has been trying to implement a PT test, both for new hires and for working agents, for quite some time. There are dozens of OPM issues to be addressed, so annual testing of credentialed agents still is not a reality. However, they are attempting to enforce the standard on new hires.

One thing worth noting, those scores are number of repetitions WITHOUT STOPPING. This is a different test than the military one where its as many repetitions as you can do in two minutes. Those of you from the Army will know that there are authorized rest positions, etc etc. On this test, if you stop, you are done. Not a big deal, but something worth practicing a couple times. The pushup test is administered with some stupid foam block under your chest that you are required to touch, so if you're used to breaking the 90 degree line, you will likely find this easier. Also, the website appears to contradict itself with regards to the pushup test. In one place it says you may stop, and in another it says you may NOT. My understanding was that you could not stop and I would train accordingly.

SOAPBOX OPINIONS FOLLOW: To be quite honest, I think those standards are pitiful and if you cannot pass them, please do not show up in my field division. We do not have to have agents who are olympic athletes. That said, I expect you to be able to be in shape enough to run a couple hundred meters in body armor, a leg holster, and fight with someone when you get there. If you cannot, don't expect me to take you through a door. Whether this test measures that ability is an entirely different conversation, but it's a start. As an applicant list full of veterans, and most of you likely recent veterans at that, this test should be easy.

Also, if you are performing at those minimum standards, you will have a hard road at the ATF Academy. Crossfit is the official training program of the Academy, and instructors LOVE pushups as corrective training. ATF Academy wasn't the hardest training I've ever done and I don't want to make it out that way. Its not summer camp either, people do get hurt during training, and they will send you home. Those people tended to be the ones who were out of shape and could not take the 6 month beating.

I sought some clarification from the agent in our field division who is administering the applicant test, and he said you CAN rest in the "up" position of the pushup, but the sit-up is a continuous exercise event. He also said the test is pass/fail with regards to moving on in the process. The list he turns in to HQ has pass/fail and the numbers for each event, but passing is passing. There is no points scale like the military test.

It also appears that I might be wrong about the pt test taking people out of the process. I won't say how many applicants my division is testing (because I don't want to narrow down where I am in the country) but of the people he's tested so far, 4 were no-shows and 3 failed. Needless to say, if you are a no-show, you're done.

My testing area had 1 not show up and 4 fail that I saw directly. I know that 5 passed the day I tested (all different times).

This combined with the written exercise and oral board might scrub the list a little better than first anticipated.

Wow. I'm still a little stunned, but I guess the process is doing what it was designed to do.

I kind of posted earlier that this might happen. Amazing the amount of self delusion that folks carry into the process. A couple might have had an unfortunate injury or strain at the wrong time which is too bad, but that wouldn't cover this level of failure. At least the no shows either had other options or did a reality check. Wanting it bad has never covered working for it hard.

Has anyone heard if interviews have been scheduled yet?

Negative. I know my division has completed all of the applicant PT tests, but I haven't heard anything about interviews.

Originally Posted by whatchagot

Negative. I know my division has completed all of the applicant PT tests, but I haven't heard anything about interviews.

Calls for interviews are going out!

Originally Posted by whatchagot

Negative. I know my division has completed all of the applicant PT tests, but I haven't heard anything about interviews.

Any indication what the numbers are looking like going into the interviews?

According to whatchagot, we were at 1,066 heading into the physical agility. In spite of anecdotal information about attrition there, figure 800 to 1,000 still standing. Somewhere between 30 to 40 applicants per vacancy still. Interviews will cut deep, around 50%, leaving ATF close to where they want to be in terms of applicants to be considered per vacancy

Anyone have any idea when they'll open another announcement to fill more slots?

Originally Posted by exparatrooper82

Anyone have any idea when they'll open another announcement to fill more slots?

we were told that a new annoucement is rumored to be coming in the fall and that there is a possibility of 2 classes for FY 2013 due to the large number of current agents that are hitting the mandated retirement age.

Same info in my office. There was some speculation they might use this list, but people smarter than me don't think that's possible because of how this announcement was funded.

As recently as this week I heard 5 classes next year. This from someone who was at HQ this week.