Thread: Finally found out for certain why the FBI unexpectedly discontinued my application

After years of trying, I finally received the real reason my application was discontinued to be an FBI SA.

For starters, a bit of background:

I was a CPA with a Master's degree and 9 years experience (some with a Big 4 firm), a private pilot, and spoke a foreign language
Applied Jan 2009
Phase 1 - Feb 2009
Language exams - Apr 2009
Phase 2 - Aug 2009
PFT, PSI, Poly, Medical - All passed Sept 2009
Per FOIA, day after HQ received my packet from local office in late Sept., my application was discontinued before BI was initiated.
I turned 37 in Feb 2010

The reason for discontinuation was not in the original FOIA request. After several failed attempts using traditional routes, I met with my congressman in March 2011 who initiated an internal request. Two weeks after congressman acted, FBI sent me a packet of "loose documents" they said was not yet filed in my records.

The official reasons for the termination were:
I had downloaded songs while at college 10 years prior (300+) and a few recently (<20),
I had an illegal copy of Windows XP in my possession,
10 years ago had watched fewer than 8 pirated full-length movies I had downloaded then promptly deleted,
I had copied a Redbox DVD to my iPod I wasn't able to watch before returning but then promptly deleted the movie after watching once.

All of this information had been voluntarily disclosed immediately preceding the poly in the interest of full disclosure. No revenue had ever been derived from any of the downloaded material.

There you have it. I'll never know whether the reasons stated are accurate or if HQ received my packet and decided that there was not enough time to complete the application process and get me a class date before I turned 37. An FBI SA friend thought the reasons provided were a bunch of BS and that the local office screwed up by processing my application too close to the deadline.

My reason for posting this is to help give fair warning to those who don't think pirating copyrighted information from the internet will trip them up later on. While I sometimes ask myself what might have been, I can honestly say I gave it my best shot.

Good luck to the rest of you.

Originally Posted by Eastwood

After years of trying, I finally received the real reason my application was discontinued to be an FBI SA.

For starters, a bit of background:

I was a CPA with a Master's degree and 9 years experience (some with a Big 4 firm), a private pilot, and spoke a foreign language
Applied Jan 2009
Phase 1 - Feb 2009
Language exams - Apr 2009
Phase 2 - Aug 2009
PFT, PSI, Poly, Medical - All passed Sept 2009
Per FOIA, day after HQ received my packet from local office in late Sept., my application was discontinued before BI was initiated.
I turned 37 in Feb 2010

The reason for discontinuation was not in the original FOIA request. After several failed attempts using traditional routes, I met with my congressman in March 2011 who initiated an internal request. Two weeks after congressman acted, FBI sent me a packet of "loose documents" they said was not yet filed in my records.

The official reasons for the termination were:
I had downloaded songs while at college 10 years prior (300+) and a few recently (<20),
I had an illegal copy of Windows XP in my possession,
10 years ago had watched fewer than 8 pirated full-length movies I had downloaded then promptly deleted,
I had copied a Redbox DVD to my iPod I wasn't able to watch before returning but then promptly deleted the movie after watching once.

All of this information had been voluntarily disclosed immediately preceding the poly in the interest of full disclosure. No revenue had ever been derived from any of the downloaded material.

There you have it. I'll never know whether the reasons stated are accurate or if HQ received my packet and decided that there was not enough time to complete the application process and get me a class date before I turned 37. An FBI SA friend thought the reasons provided were a bunch of BS and that the local office screwed up by processing my application too close to the deadline.

My reason for posting this is to help give fair warning to those who don't think pirating copyrighted information from the internet will trip them up later on. While I sometimes ask myself what might have been, I can honestly say I gave it my best shot.

Good luck to the rest of you.

I have a feeling that you were not processed because of all of the illegal activity you conducted, and nothing to do with your age. Grow up and stop stealing things. You sound like a thief to me, and glad you're not sharing the same job code I am.

Originally Posted by FedSA

I have a feeling that you were not processed because of all of the illegal activity you conducted, and nothing to do with your age. Grow up and stop stealing things. You sound like a thief to me, and glad you're not sharing the same job code I am.

Wow! I'm glad I'm not sharing the same ZIP code as you. As a first-time poster I had no idea of the callous reception I'd receive.

In my post I made no excuses and accepted the consequences. My intent was to warn others who may believe that downloading copyrighted content isn't a big deal. Did you catch the part about a majority of the activity in question happened 10+ years ago? My position isn't that time should have erased the wrongdoing, but that the FBI would stop the process no matter how long ago the infraction occurred. Perhaps the Bureau could list downloading an .mp3 as an automatic disqualifier? Heck, I should have smoked crack and pot instead of downloading some music and movies. At least then I would have been within hiring parameters, right?

Your call for me to "grow up and stop stealing things" and labeling me a thief was a bit harsh in my opinion. Your pretentious disposition is off-putting, and I'm glad your attitude is not representative of the Bureau as a whole. But congratulations on your error-free life thus far. It must be difficult tolerating the rest of us.

Was the paperwork simply documentation from the polygraph, or was it paperwork directly stating the reason your application was discontinued. I am just wondering if you connected dots that weren't meant to be connected.

Originally Posted by o2force

Was the paperwork simply documentation from the polygraph, or was it paperwork directly stating the reason your application was discontinued. I am just wondering if you connected dots that weren't meant to be connected.

Good question. The paperwork was a print page from the Bureau Personnel Management System which states the official reasons for the discontinuation. My desire to be completely forthcoming and honest during the application process is what provided the information used to wash me out.

If perhaps the Bureau issued some guidelines similar to the one for marijuana use (ex. if you've downloaded less than 100 songs three or more years ago, but none in the last 3 years), I could have saved us both a lot of time, effort, and money by not even bothering to apply.

Originally Posted by Eastwood

My position isn't that time should have erased the wrongdoing, but that the FBI would stop the process no matter how long ago the infraction occurred. Perhaps the Bureau could list downloading an .mp3 as an automatic disqualifier?

Well according to your own posts, some of the 'infractions' are very recent.

I had downloaded songs while at college 10 years prior (300+) and a few recently (<20),
I had an illegal copy of Windows XP in my possession,

Oh and this:

I had copied a Redbox DVD to my iPod I wasn't able to watch before returning but then promptly deleted the movie after watching once.

As we all know, Redbox hasn't been around for that long, so this must have been in the recent past as well. God forbid that you would have had to keep it an extra day and pay $1.25

Your call for me to "grow up and stop stealing things" and labeling me a thief was a bit harsh in my opinion. Your pretentious disposition is off-putting, and I'm glad your attitude is not representative of the Bureau as a whole. But congratulations on your error-free life thus far. It must be difficult tolerating the rest of us.

stealing
Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it

thief
A person who steals another person's property, esp. by stealth and without using force or violence.

Eastwood, they just found out about this because you disclosed it before the poly? How did they find out about it?

Originally Posted by Eastwood

Wow! I'm glad I'm not sharing the same ZIP code as you. As a first-time poster I had no idea of the callous reception I'd receive.

In my post I made no excuses and accepted the consequences. My intent was to warn others who may believe that downloading copyrighted content isn't a big deal. Did you catch the part about a majority of the activity in question happened 10+ years ago? My position isn't that time should have erased the wrongdoing, but that the FBI would stop the process no matter how long ago the infraction occurred. Perhaps the Bureau could list downloading an .mp3 as an automatic disqualifier? Heck, I should have smoked crack and pot instead of downloading some music and movies. At least then I would have been within hiring parameters, right?

Your call for me to "grow up and stop stealing things" and labeling me a thief was a bit harsh in my opinion. Your pretentious disposition is off-putting, and I'm glad your attitude is not representative of the Bureau as a whole. But congratulations on your error-free life thus far. It must be difficult tolerating the rest of us.

Your first post on the board is basically that you've had a pattern over 10+ years of pirating music and movies. You disclose this to the FBI at some point in your application process, then wonder why you didn't get hired? Then you involve your congressman? Are you serious?

You're applying to one of the most competitive LE agencies out there, and you didn't think this would be an issue as long as you disclosed it, and that MOST of the illegal activity was 10 years ago?

Well, personally I have never downloaded music (or movies) illegally. I haven't pirated any software. But if you counted how many times I used the fax machine for a personal document, checked my personal email while on the clock, availed myself of the occasional copy of something from the Xerox, or heavens forbid - took a half dozen Sweet & Low packets from a restaurant, I guess they would give me the death penalty. Yeah, I know integrity is not a part time thing, etc. And I too have a pretty low threshold for rule bending, but if an agency is made up of nothing but total saints, I don't think you'll have a particularly well rounded team. No, before the self-righteous jump my case, I'm not advocating they let thugs in, but damn, we all have had a simple lapse in judgement that ultimately was of little or no consequence.

Originally Posted by Kegan30317

Well, personally I have never downloaded music (or movies) illegally. I haven't pirated any software. But if you counted how many times I used the fax machine for a personal document, checked my personal email while on the clock, availed myself of the occasional copy of something from the Xerox, or heavens forbid - took a half dozen Sweet & Low packets from a restaurant, I guess they would give me the death penalty. Yeah, I know integrity is not a part time thing, etc. And I too have a pretty low threshold for rule bending, but if an agency is made up of nothing but total saints, I don't think you'll have a particularly well rounded team. No, before the self-righteous jump my case, I'm not advocating they let thugs in, but damn, we all have had a simple lapse in judgement that ultimately was of little or no consequence.

I agree

Is this something that would have even normally come up or been asked about? Do you think they terminated your application more for the fact that you had recently downloaded songs, or just the fact that you had pirated stuff in general (regardless of when).

I know for some, much of this"illegal"downloading was going on while the actual legality of the issues was still being determined in court via RIAA suits. If a person downloaded during this period, would it still be looked upon with the same severity? I know claiming ignorance of the law is not a proper excuse, but then again I'm fairly certain that's what warnings are for when it comes to the smaller infractions. First speeding time? You might get off with a warning... I'm not sure that I view downloading a few songs to listen to is any worse. When you think about the ethicality of the two issues: speeding could result in a serious accident causing injury or loss of life, downloading songs prevents a few millionaires from collecting their $2 in profit. Which is a priority? I'm sure everyone of us has sped before, which is breaking the law. If that were openly disclosed, would that bar a person from getting the job?

Originally Posted by STLBlueSuit

Eastwood, they just found out about this because you disclosed it before the poly? How did they find out about it?

I voluntarily disclosed all of these items immediately prior to the poly.

Originally Posted by FederalCO

Well according to your own posts, some of the 'infractions' are very recent.

I never stated that everything was more than 10 years old. The more-recent events were included so that current applicants would be aware that even minor discretions are sufficient grounds for disqualification. Again, I am not justifying myself. I wish I could go back and do it over again, but I can't.

The older events were included because the Bureau specifically listed them as reasons for termination. If watching a few pirated movies more than 10 years ago is grounds for dismissal, I think applicants should be warned just how far back the Bureau is willing to go.

Originally Posted by FedSA

Your first post on the board is basically that you've had a pattern over 10+ years of pirating music and movies. You disclose this to the FBI at some point in your application process, then wonder why you didn't get hired? Then you involve your congressman? Are you serious?

Why are you so quick to judge and condemn me? You know nothing about me but what I've told you.

What constitutes a "pattern"? Have you ever sped and sped again a year later? Do you have a pattern of speeding? Have you ever lied more than once? Do you have a pattern of lying? Your tendency to deal in absolutes without sufficient evidence or history is frightening for someone granted with as much power as you have.

Originally Posted by FedSA

You're applying to one of the most competitive LE agencies out there, and you didn't think this would be an issue as long as you disclosed it, and that MOST of the illegal activity was 10 years ago?

Should I not have disclosed it? How many applicants do not disclose their downloading history. Since we know that downloading, no matter how long ago, is grounds for disqualification, do the following also hold true:

1) Potential Applicants - If you have ever downloaded music or movies, do not bother to apply as you are a thief and will be disqualified,

2) Current Applicants - If you have ever downloaded music or movies, you have the moral and ethical duty to disclose to your AC that you have participated in such activities and that you are prepared to be disqualified,

3) Current Federal LEO's - If you have ever downloaded music or movies - either prior to employment or since - you have a moral and ethical duty to report this to the SAIC. If you did not disclose this information prior to employment, wasn't your application incomplete? Don't you have an obligation to resign as you have committed acts sufficient to wash out an applicant? Aren't you held to a higher standard than the rest of us?

I consider the reasons listed for the termination of my application to be joint and severally authoritative - even one alone was sufficient grounds. Among those reasons were a few more than 10 years old. If you have participated in illegal downloading at anytime in the past, you now know how seriously the FBI considers this activity and that you have a moral and ethical obligation to report it.

Originally Posted by Eastwood

Why are you so quick to judge and condemn me? You know nothing about me but what I've told you.

What constitutes a "pattern"? Have you ever sped and sped again a year later? Do you have a pattern of speeding? Have you ever lied more than once? Do you have a pattern of lying? Your tendency to deal in absolutes without sufficient evidence or history is frightening for someone granted with as much power as you have.

I'm not condemning you. You admitted to possession of stolen property and theft. These are things the G takes very seriously. Whether you agree or disagree with the philosophy, they will take a different look at someone who has 3 speeding tickets vs. a pattern (or if you would prefer, numerous lapses in judgement over a period of time) related to some type of theft. I'm not judging you to be a career criminal, or someone who has engaged in serious crime. I'm just saying that the FBI has a large pool of applicants, and they will most likely pass on someone who has admitted to these activities.

As an aside, I've known many people who are 1811's who came in right at the 37y/o cutoff.