Thread: Ice Max Hr /pay Banding

If I am not mistaken, SAC/NY started the MAX HR training program last week for GS's. I believe this is the new Pay Banding training. Just wondering if any other offices have experienced this and if anyone had any new input/dates.

The sups from my SAC area just did theirs. 14s and above are switching over soon.

Originally Posted by mrob422

The sups from my SAC area just did theirs. 14s and above are switching over soon.

The Pay Banding will not take effect in ICE until January 2009. All supervisors will go under MAXHR for evaluation purposes (ONLY) on 4/1/06. The training they just went through was on the new evaluation system ICE will be using under MAXHR. All of the rest of ICE (ie: NON-supervisors) will go under MAXHR for evaluation purposes (ONLY) sometime later this FY.

My boss attended this training about 2 weeks ago. We will all have to come up with individual goals (at least 3), which are in line with your office's goals (which are set by the SAC or RAC). Under this new evaluation system, we will be rated on how well we achieve those goals. You will get a numerical score (between 1-4, with 4 being the highest possible). Based on this numerical score, your boss will determine how much of a pay raise (if any) he/she feels you deserve. Apparently no guidelines have yet been set by DHS or ICE to say what percentage raise you should get, if you are rated a 4, or a 3.5 or 3, etc... That is supposedly still in the works at DHS.

As far as pay goes, we'll all still be under the GS system through December 2008. As of January 1, 2009, you'll be converted to whatever pay band corresponds to your GS grade and step at that time. That is the other problem. DHS has not yet decided which GS grades / steps will correspond with which pay band. That too is still in the works at DHS.

Our SAC did theirs a couple of months back. I pretty much heard the same thing as the Professor. From what I can tell, due to court injuctions and pending litigation, the whole thing is about two years behind the original schedule in this article. If you do a search on govexec.com you can find the more recent articles on the court decisions. I could be wrong, but thats the way I understand it.
www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0105/012605sz1.htm

Originally Posted by Cool As ICE

From what I can tell, due to court injuctions and pending litigation, the whole thing is about two years behind the original schedule in this article.

The court injunctions only apply to those DHS employees who are Bargaining Unit (ie: belong to a UNION). That is primarily CBP and Border Patrol. For the majority of us in ICE, we are non-bargaining unit (ie: we do not / can not belong to a union). The court injunctions on the implementation of the pay for performance system (ie: pay banding) only applies to bargaining unit employees. SO, on 1/1/2009, most (if not all) of ICE will go under pay banding.

This system is very concerning. Especially for those of us who haven't reached 13 yet, or will not reach it by DEC 09. I know the origional date for implementation was '08, so maybe they will continue to slowly put things back. I just think if you are an 11 or 12, the chances of receiving a pay raise similar to the GS payscale at that rate is very unlikely. I guess we will see what happens.

Just a quick explanation of the new plan according to our GS. I will use 1811's as an example. We will be compared to a yet to be determined civillian equivalent. I will use the term "cluster". Each SAC area will be compared yearly to their geographical "cluster". This is great if it is the CEO of security for some fortune 500 company, bad if it is an hourly security guard. (No knocks to those folks. I was an hourly security myself as were a lot of us ) If this cluster receives a pay raise, the 1811's in that area will receive an equivalent pay raise if
a) money is available
b) dependent upon your rating 0,2, 3 or 4 (0 very very bad, 4 very very good
We are currently funded for pay raises for the first two years of this program. After that it is anyones guess.

If your equivalent cluster does not get a raise, you do not get one either. You are not even elligible for the Executive Order COLA. If the Miami cluster gets a raise, Miami will also, but if the LA cluster does not, no raise for LA. Miami still gets paid.

As soon as the plan goes into effect. (We were initially told Jan08) you will automatically get a bump to your next grade or step regardless of your hire date. This generally has occurred in the civillian sector as well. Large initial bump and then not much else. After the plan goes into effect, they are still unsure if the raises will be based on the fiscla or calender year. My GS said tons of tough questions were asked and a lot of the downsides of the plan were brought up, but not a lot of answers were given to the question.

If my explanation made things clear as mud, Mods as always, feel free to delete. Thanks.

Be safe

UNPROFESSIONAL POST DELETED BY MODERATOR - IF YOU HAVE NOTHING CONSTRUCTIVE TO ADD, DON'T POST

I will be mandatory before 1/1/09, but for those I leave behind I would suggest that you keep lobbying FLEOA and your politicians. Remember that there will be a national election in November 2008. The point is that implementing this scheme will create many more problems than it will solve.

After the dust settles from the EEO's, lawsuits and total confusion over how to rate everyone, hopefully someone will finally figure out that giving out some big cash awards to high producers would have been a much better and quicker fix.

Originally Posted by carter218

If your equivalent cluster does not get a raise, you do not get one either. You are not even elligible for the Executive Order COLA.

Wait a sec....call me an ignorant local yokel , but is COLA for the fed mean the same as the annual increase (I believe it was the 2.10% this year) you guys get?

Just curious if this is going to take all of the salary increases away.

From what I understood, no "cluster" raise, no Fed raise in your area either to include an annual across the board cost of living.

Gustoms GS raises some excellent points as well. I came from and agency that was "pay for performance" based. Unfortunately there was never any money for pay raises available. In the long run I think (again my opinion) that unless all fed agencies go to this system DHS wii ultimately have serious retention concerns. You will have a large percentage ready to retire and a large percentage just starting out and very few "Senior Specials". These folks will probably seek the greener pastures of guarenteed green. I know those will say that you do not do this job for the money, but I ask have you ever worked for the state or locals? Bottom line is it will be hard to work with your buds from other agencies on say an OCDETF and they are annually getting steps and you have not seen a raise in two years. (again not probable but possible) It will also be hard to recruit folks from other LEA's or out of College.

"hey Mr recruiter, how much will I start out and and how much will I make in 4 years.
Recruiter- Well you will start out at some band that does not have a name yet and could top out some other band we are not sure what is called, but all we can guarantee is that you will start out at "X".
No thanks (or come to get the training and experience and move on) See above remarks about large number of those with a few years. Compare this to going to say DEA. They can guarantee a starting salary, guarantee a top out as a 13 step whatever and allow you with some degree of certainty plan to buy a house, car, college etc....

Just some thoughts, but it has not gone into effect. It is still a few years away and perhaps some changes will be made or the system will not go into place at all. Bottom line we are all still getting paid. Very well I might add. Hang in there and read the board and realize how lucky we all are (current Feds) that have the job and can complain while others are going non stop to get here. Keep the Faith.

Be safe

In the 1970's there was a variance of what different agencies paid their 1811's. I believe that ATF and INS topped out as GS-11's. I know that USDA-IG did when I started there in 1977.

A GS-12 in Ag was a promotion to Senior Agent and accepting the grade meant being considered for a PCS move. One guy took the grade, wanted to refuse the surprise move to NYC and revert to GS-11, and was fired over the issue.

Customs had a journeyman GS-12. FBI and (believe it or not) HEW (now HHS) IG had journeyman GS-13's.

There was also a variation in AUO/LEAP. Ag gave out 10% to the troops, IRS, I believe, usually gave out 15%. Customs, DEA and FBI were on 25%. Customs and DEA always had take home G-rides, FBI usually did not.

Looks like we are heading back to variations of pay again after several years where many agencies had journeyman GS-13, 25% LEAP, and take home G-cars. It's great if you are in a "have" agency, not so good if you are in a "have not" agency.

Originally Posted by CustomsGS

In the 1970's there was a variance of what different agencies paid their 1811's. I believe that ATF and INS topped out as GS-11's. I know that USDA-IG did when I started there in 1977.

A GS-12 in Ag was a promotion to Senior Agent and accepting the grade meant being considered for a PCS move. One guy took the grade, wanted to refuse the surprise move to NYC and revert to GS-11, and was fired over the issue.

Customs had a journeyman GS-12. FBI and (believe it or not) HEW (now HHS) IG had journeyman GS-13's.

There was also a variation in AUO/LEAP. Ag gave out 10% to the troops, IRS, I believe, usually gave out 15%. Customs, DEA and FBI were on 25%. Customs and DEA always had take home G-rides, FBI usually did not.

Looks like we are heading back to variations of pay again after several years where many agencies had journeyman GS-13, 25% LEAP, and take home G-cars. It's great if you are in a "have" agency, not so good if you are in a "have not" agency.

I have seen alot of coverage in the FLEOA newsletter over the past year about the "new" commission which was set up to study and make recommendations on a seperate federal law enforcement pay system. One of the basic ideas behind this initiative, was supposed to be to eliminate the disparities between all of the various federal L.E. agencies, involving pay, 6C coverage, etc...

It seems like from what we are seeing in current events, in reality, we are actually going in the opposite direction!!

Does anyone have a definitive answer as to when ICE 1811s will fall into paybanding? The last information I read indicated that our last GS scale increase will occur in 2007 and we will be adjusted to our payband in January of 2008. Has this been updated? Has the implementation been delayed for one year?

carter218]If this cluster receives a pay raise, the 1811's in that area will receive an equivalent pay raise if
a) money is available

In regards "if money is available" for raises. Will it be up to the SAC offices to budget for the raises or will it be from HQ? How will they prioritize raises vs training vs alien removal expenses? How successful has ice been in the past at budgeting and do they appear to have the ability to budget for raises?