Thread: Return to Federal Service

I know this was covered in some old threads but wanted to make sure nothing has changed. If you work as an 1811 for say, 4 years, and then leave the G completely (go state/local for example) when you're 32. You keep those 4 years and could theoretically come back anytime up to age 41?

Also, in that example, if you had 3 or 4 years experience but then went to a state or local agency for 5 or 6 years, how easy/hard would it be to get picked up again as an 1811?

Do a search on return to federal service. We did many threads over the years. You get credit for time served, and if you didn't burn any bridges, you've got a shot. A hook helps, especially recommendations from GS, ASAC or SAC.

Depending on agency policy, you may have to redo basic agent school. For DEA, it was automatic if you were out 4 years or more.

First make some calls to test the waters, then some emails and if possible, some meetings face to face. Be able to articulate why you left, why now you want to return and what you can bring to the job. Good luck!

yes on the age question. As far as coming back depends on so many factors, i've known some to come back fairly easy some not so easy. We just had one leave to local, mainly for location and geting a transfer in this agency coudl take years.

I think there are a lot of variables that make this a difficult question to answer. You've certainly taken me beyond the limit of what I know with any confidence and I am going to suggest you call OPM and get some guidance regarding some of the following:

1. You voluntarily separated. I believe this means that you do not have any reinstatement rights such as if you had been subject to a reduction in force (plus you are probably past the limit of years to seek that anyway.
2. You did not separate for military service where special rules and circumstances can apply
3. While an agency may apply your experience in considering grade level or your qualifications for competitive hire, you may not be able to count that 4 years toward retirement if you received those funds you payed in to FERS when you left. Here are a couple of OPM publications on that subject: http://www.opm.gov/retire/pubs/bals/2011/11-103.pdf and http://www.opm.gov/retire/pre/fers/creditable.asp . It seems pretty clear that redeposit is only available to those who left after October 2009, but this is one you should talk to OPM about. Remember that absent a waiver from an agency or creditable military service the only path to counting the years of service against age is that those years are covered under the rules of the retirement system. If you left the money sit in FERS, then this may not be an issue.
4. You'll need also to look into TSP issues as well.
5. Lastly, depending on the agency(ies) you are looking at, most generally you are going back to the start of the competitive process at a time when hiring is thin, veteran's preference is highly emphasized and announcements are almost all for entry level grades. If you can get by whether your service is creditable against age, you might get some level of matching in steps, but probably won't get your prior grade back up front. As DMClark notes, you'll need to work your contacts to see what's what.

Good luck and if some of these issues apply and you navigate them successfully, please post the information so others can have it.

Originally Posted by ATF SAC

I think there are a lot of variables that make this a difficult question to answer. You've certainly taken me beyond the limit of what I know with any confidence and I am going to suggest you call OPM and get some guidance regarding some of the following:

1. You voluntarily separated. I believe this means that you do not have any reinstatement rights such as if you had been subject to a reduction in force (plus you are probably past the limit of years to seek that anyway.
2. You did not separate for military service where special rules and circumstances can apply
3. While an agency may apply your experience in considering grade level or your qualifications for competitive hire, you may not be able to count that 4 years toward retirement if you received those funds you payed in to FERS when you left. Here are a couple of OPM publications on that subject: http://www.opm.gov/retire/pubs/bals/2011/11-103.pdf and FERS Creditable Service . It seems pretty clear that redeposit is only available to those who left after October 2009, but this is one you should talk to OPM about. Remember that absent a waiver from an agency or creditable military service the only path to counting the years of service against age is that those years are covered under the rules of the retirement system. If you left the money sit in FERS, then this may not be an issue.
4. You'll need also to look into TSP issues as well.
5. Lastly, depending on the agency(ies) you are looking at, most generally you are going back to the start of the competitive process at a time when hiring is thin, veteran's preference is highly emphasized and announcements are almost all for entry level grades. If you can get by whether your service is creditable against age, you might get some level of matching in steps, but probably won't get your prior grade back up front. As DMClark notes, you'll need to work your contacts to see what's what.

Good luck and if some of these issues apply and you navigate them successfully, please post the information so others can have it.

I believe based upon what I read in the following that you can be reinstated assuming you acheived 'career tenure' status prior to leaving:

§ 315.401 Reinstatement.
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(a) Agency authority. Subject to part 335 of this chapter and paragraph (b) of this section, an agency may appoint by reinstatement to a competitive service position a person who previously was employed under career or career-conditional appointment (or equivalent).

(b) Time limit. There is no time limit on the reinstatement eligibility of a preference eligible or a person who completed the service requirement for career tenure. Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, an agency may reinstate a nonpreference eligible who has not completed the service requirement for career tenure only within 3 years following the date of separation. This time limit begins to run from the date of separation from the last position in which the person served under a career appointment, career-conditioned appointment, indefinite appointment in lieu of reinstatement, or an appointment under which he or she acquired competitive status.

more at this link:
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:

I'm still with the G now, but thinking about leaving, and wondering if the door will be open 5-10 years from now to return. So even though there is not much hiring right now there will certainly be a hiring push again at some time in the future. And I'm not saying I would necessarily need to return to my current agency, just maybe any 1811 (OIG, Postal, etc) spot to grab some 13 pay, job security and a pension before I get too old.

Originally Posted by Goldeneye

Also, in that example, if you had 3 or 4 years experience but then went to a state or local agency for 5 or 6 years, how easy/hard would it be to get picked up again as an 1811?

Two different angles for getting back into an 1811 position after leaving one: one is reinstatement to your previous agency, the other is applying for a new position like any other external candidate. The reinstatement option is a possibility if you are talking about a larger agency like FBI, DEA, etc., notsomuch if you were an OIG agent in an organization with 100 total agents. As dmclark noted, even in the former instance it helps if you have backing from management in your former agency. I know several agents who have successfully come back, and several others who didn't make it for one reason or another ranging from the agency not wanting them back to no vacant positions being available at the time.

In applying to other agencies, just like any other applicant, it is going to be a matter of how well you stack up against various other applicants and if you are a fit for what the hiring official needs at the time. If you were in a competitive service appointment before and have career status, then you will be eligible to apply as a reinstatement candidate and receive consideration under status vacancy announcements...if you were an excepted service candidate and never had career status, then you will be applying for public announcements just like any other external candidate, which can significant limit your eligibility and ability to make a cert list (especially if you do not have Veterans Preference points). Eligibility aside, timing and luck are factors when you have a limited window of eligibility because of the age restriction...getting onboard somewhere is a much greater challenge right now simply because of tough budget cycles and limited vacancies compared to 5+ years ago.

Again echoing dmclark's advice, you need to be prepared to explain why you left an 1811 in the first place and why you are looking for another one now. I've known a few people who have left an 1811 position for state or local LE, or the private sector, and later hired into other 1811 agencies after leaving FLE, so it is definitely doable.

That's a good info link, BROONEY, thanks for sharing. I didn't mean to convey that reinstatement is an impossiblity. Still, the operative word is "may", which is why I noted that this can depend upon the agency(ies) to which a person is applying. In my experience, most just typically point people to the beginning of the application process and in just one or two instances where there was a reinstatement the person left and in very short order turned around and asked to come back. I mean literally their prior position had not been refilled The other hurdles are the special retirement provisions for law enforcement which make creditable service under them a key to the age and time in service computation. As I noted this is complicating factor. Especially since any ability to redeposit into FERS was only enacted in 2009, I still recommend going to OPM for clarification. Even if you could get reinstated, depending on what you did with your retirement is going to affect how your years of prior service are going to count. That leads to important financial and career decisions. I read it as, if you can redeposit, it is with interest. And if you cannot, you lose those years and will be working longer and may need an age waiver as well as a reinstatement.

I guess there is an implicit question about why agencies would't gobble up trained and experienced folks who realize they want to come back. Bushmasta gets to it. There are people whose circumstances are such that an agency would love to have them back, but day in and day out it is folks who are struggling with the mobility requirements. They got started in a place they want to get out of or are headed to a place they don't want to go. Agencies tend to have a calloused, been there done that, view absent something compelling in the circumstances. Note that it is not all that unusual for agencies to point folks who left for another Federal agency to the beginning of the process, and while more usual than rehiring someone who resigned from Federal Service, even bringing back folks from other Federal agencies is not typical.

Over the years, we have had analogous questions from posters who have stated they are thinking of leaving Federal LE for State and local LE or the private sector and wondering at that point what it might take to come back. DMClark and I have answered in unison about that, "Don't break service."

And let me add the point that I know several folks that have attempted to come back to the 1811 series and had the way paved, only to find that the agencies are still using ENTRY level requirements for physicals. First thing to go as for most LEOs is upper level hearing ranges. Exposure to gunfire at the range and lifes' noises will do it for you. As a result, these former agents were denied re-entry as they couldn't meet the physical standards.

I know others that bitched out everyone they felt deserved it before they left and guess what? They received the thin envelope saying others were 'more qualified'.

I strongly recommend before you consider leaving federal service, you do some serious soul searching. Returning has never been a guarantee, and with the incredibly qualified applicant pool these days, it's tougher than ever to return.

They have been known to grant waivers on some hearing related issues. Also, some agencies are way more lax on the levels than others -- ICE for example only goes up to the 2000 level as opposed to the 3000 level. Also, several OIG's allow hearing aids -- again, as long as you are borderline and not real bad in the hearing department.

Brooney: Just replying to your questions. If you've got the answers, then good luck in the process.

Originally Posted by dmclark

Brooney: Just replying to your questions. If you've got the answers, then good luck in the process.

Completely understood, thanks. In your experience, under what type of circumstances would changing agencies not subject you to the entry level physical ?

There is such a diversity of agencies these days, that I would be reluctant to give an absolute answer. Generally, given the amount of time you have been away, I would expect you to have to pass an entry level physical. Maybe the best bet is to take the most rigorous standards of the agencies to which you are applying and have a physical done by your own doctor and see how it goes. The only circumstances I have seen where an agency has taken someone on with the normal wear and tear of time accepted have been in what I would call "mercy hires". These are folks with continuous 1811 service, usually with a lot of seniority, where other agencies bail them out. A number of years ago, FLETC was moving a lot of their folks out of the 1811 classification. Agencies picked up a number of them on laterals to preserve the 1811 retirement for folks with a couple of years to go to be eligible. I have also seen very unusual circumstances where differences in agency rules come into play. There was a senior FBI official who was offered a very senior position in one of the States. Would have required that they be authorized to take it while staying with the FBI for something like a year to lock up their Fed retirement. Could not be worked out with DOJ, so he finished his career with ATF. Treasury rules at the time, made it possible. Clearly not the average situations.

Since it appears that no one has chimed in yet with first hand knowledge, I'll share some of my experiences with this.*

I left my first agency, competitive service, career (permanent) status after 5 years on for a non 1811 position somewhere else. I thought I hadn't burned any bridges and my manager even told me I was welcome back (take note) should I change my mind.*

Flash a couple years forward, some family changes and well...needed to move back to the area I use to live. I contacted my old office. Surprise! My old manager was gone, as was much of the management I had worked for...and I got the 'thanks but no thanks' letter. There are a few reasons outside of my control, but some of it was also turn over and the fact that I was a complete unknown now.

I luckily still qualified under competitive status...eventually was hired into another 1811 position with another agency, but in total it took me about as long, if not longer to get hired than with my first 1811 gig. And it was much more difficult. I pounded the pavement (or keyboard, or phone pad, etc) for over a year to make headway. I called every agency, applied to every gig, flew cross country just to get face time with people....

All something to consider. I'd suggest that if you do leave, make sure it's for something you could/would be happy doing looooong term, just in case you can't actually get rehired.

Oh, and funny DMCLARK should mention the hearing...I had great hearing and vision when I was hired...almost didn't pass vision (and hearing is going south too it seems) with my current agency. THAT is scary as its mostly out of your control...and who do you think they'll want to hire? Person that needs a waiver or other person in the pipeline that doesn't?

Originally Posted by ATF SAC

There is such a diversity of agencies these days, that I would be reluctant to give an absolute answer. Generally, given the amount of time you have been away, I would expect you to have to pass an entry level physical. Maybe the best bet is to take the most rigorous standards of the agencies to which you are applying and have a physical done by your own doctor and see how it goes. The only circumstances I have seen where an agency has taken someone on with the normal wear and tear of time accepted have been in what I would call "mercy hires". These are folks with continuous 1811 service, usually with a lot of seniority, where other agencies bail them out. A number of years ago, FLETC was moving a lot of their folks out of the 1811 classification. Agencies picked up a number of them on laterals to preserve the 1811 retirement for folks with a couple of years to go to be eligible. I have also seen very unusual circumstances where differences in agency rules come into play. There was a senior FBI official who was offered a very senior position in one of the States. Would have required that they be authorized to take it while staying with the FBI for something like a year to lock up their Fed retirement. Could not be worked out with DOJ, so he finished his career with ATF. Treasury rules at the time, made it possible. Clearly not the average situations.

I just assumed, regardless of whether you were a new hire/reinstatement/lateral, that you were subject to the same physical. Although now someone else is saying that laterals are sometimes treated differently -- coworker.