Thread: Safety of an OIG Special Agent 1811

Hey guys. Considering an offer as an 1811 with the OIG. Wife tells me that the job maybe too dangerous for me and is afraid of retaliation/revenge from the people I arrest. I told her that the people I deal with are mostly PhDs and they are less risk than say people that DEA, ATF, and FBI have to deal with.

What are your thoughts into this? Are there any cases where the criminal seeks retaliation/revenge towards not just the agent but the agent's family? What measures can be taken to prevent this? Any insights will help me decide if I should make the switch. I don't want to her to be scared and live in fear...

Thanks!!!

The issue is not whether you will be hunted down; the issue is your wife believes you will be. Your argument that it is safe is not all that honest; her concerns are not that realistic. Straight up, folks in this position are usually choosing the job or the spouse.

You need to sort out if she is OK with you being in LE, not the relative dangers of different jobs or agencies. Your argument that a PhD is less dangerous than a doper isn't necessarily accurate, either. The white collar criminal often has a lot more to lose than a "traditional" bad guy who may treat going to jail as the cost of doing business. There's a reason the job involves carrying a gun, getting issued body armor, and such, and trying to sell it as something other than being law enforcement is either doing a disservice to your wife or setting you up to get yourself hurt some day by not having the right mindset.

Originally Posted by nsedet

You need to sort out if she is OK with you being in LE, not the relative dangers of different jobs or agencies. Your argument that a PhD is less dangerous than a doper isn't necessarily accurate, either. The white collar criminal often has a lot more to lose than a "traditional" bad guy who may treat going to jail as the cost of doing business. There's a reason the job involves carrying a gun, getting issued body armor, and such, and trying to sell it as something other than being law enforcement is either doing a disservice to your wife or setting you up to get yourself hurt some day by not having the right mindset.

I must agree with you that a white collar crime has often much more to lose than the guy off the street. I guess the challenge I have here is if my wife is not OK then I am missing a great career opportunity that might not open up to me anymore. At the same token, I don't want to take on a job where she doesn't feel comfortable with it.

Originally Posted by ATF SAC

The issue is not whether you will be hunted down; the issue is your wife believes you will be. Your argument that it is safe is not all that honest; her concerns are not that realistic. Straight up, folks in this position are usually choosing the job or the spouse.

Is it not possible to have work life balance as an 1811 and having a family? Does it make it harder?

Do you think I shouldn't take this position if I see my spouse as more important than the job?

ATF SAC and nsedet are both right. While some of us are more likely to deal with violent offenders than perhaps others, overall she (and you) need to come to an understanding about LE in general. Being an agent is not--or shouldn't be-- a 9-5 job. IMHO, if you take an oath as an agent you should always be prepared to react like one. This means taking your gun to the grocery store, church, and your kids' dance recitals. Not necessarily because the offenders you investigate are likely to hunt you down, but because society has entrusted you with the legal authority to be armed at all times (assuming your agency allows this). There are plenty of agents who disagree and don't live by this, but that's my $.02.

There are quite a few things you can do to hide yourself on the internet and ATF has developed a robust anonymity program for this very reason. We have learned something from the hard lessons of Jay Dobyns and Billy Queen. By following their recommendations and mailing off a few letters, I virtually disappeared from the open internet. Are there still risks for us: certainly. But keeping what you had for breakfast off Facebook and being smart about how you register your vehicles can go a long way.

I work with an IRS agent whose wife has a similar perspective. It is a constant source of strain on their relationship and something he wrestles with. Even though people might think he's doing white collar stuff, he's done enough sovereign citizen cases to have a legitimate fear of people hunting him and his family down.

All of that said, the danger can be very real and mamma has to be happy. Her fears are generally unfounded, but you should be honest about the risks.

Originally Posted by gschultz

Is it not possible to have work life balance as an 1811 and having a family? Does it make it harder?

Do you think I shouldn't take this position if I see my spouse as more important than the job?

These are two complex questions that I'm not sure are entirely related to the original one about safety. It's absolutely possible to have a work life balance. Don't misconstrue my earlier comments about being armed. Having my firearm consistently doesn't affect my work life balance at all. I generally live my life how I would if I weren't an agent. My wife and I have had a conversation about what to do if certain things happen, but it doesn't impact where we decide to eat on a Friday night. If I'm armed I opt for water instead of beer, but that's about the extent of the impact.

Sometimes I go to work at 430am for warrants and sometimes I come home really late. Once every couple weeks I miss dinner unexpectedly and my informants call at weird hours. A lot of that has to do with the nature of cases ATF works, and I'd guess that most OIG's are working 9-5. In fact that's why many people chose to go OIG: their work/life balance is probably the best in the 1811 community. ATF agents buy guns and drugs from street gangs, and DEA sits on the wire. None of those things end at 5pm.

As to whether you should take the job if your spouse is more important, the answer is absolutely not. I can't believe the choice is that stark, but if your wife is going to leave you over taking it, then you should definitely turn it down. That's into some marriage counselor territory...

Originally Posted by whatchagot

if you take an oath as an agent you should always be prepared to react like one. This means taking your gun to the grocery store, church, and your kids' dance recitals.

I agree.. regardless what violations you work, or the type of people you arrest, it's just as possible you'll be in the 7-eleven during an armed robbery. You will be LE and expected to do what needs to be done.

Though not an 1811 I am gonna throw my .02 in. As a former patrol training officer, I can tell you that it is hard for people that are married and not LE prior to getting married or at least married while former Military. Not only is the danger there, it will take your wife years to understand the stress of the job. I don't know if you will be subject to call out or working on holidays but that will also be a source of contention. The worst part will be that your entire life will change. Your friends will disappear and those that don't wont understand the stupid little things that you used to be able to do will now cost you your career. Good Luck but you have to go into LE knowing that it is not a career change, it's a way of life. If you aren't ready for that, don't waste your or someone's time.

Originally Posted by bamabullets2

I can tell you that it is hard for people that are married and not LE prior to getting married or at least married while former Military. Not only is the danger there, it will take your wife years to understand the stress of the job.

There is a lot of truth in this. My wife has had a long time to learn how the stress impacts our relationship. Being the wife of a combat arms soldier before she was the wife of an ATF agent gave her a long time to adjust; a couple of combat tours helped too. That isn't to say that spouses without this background are incapable of understanding. We're speaking in broad terms and everyone here brings a different life story and perspective. I also try, with pretty good success, to maintain a fair number of friends who are not agents. There are other reasons for this that are outside the scope of your question.

Those of us who have lived by the sword for a long time sometimes forget what its like for people new to the fold, or how trying to wrestle with these issues impacts people. However, I would encourage you to do some research on the number of federal agents killed in the line of duty. Certainly this job is more dangerous than working for Microsoft writing code. However, the reality is that--fortunately-- very few agents are killed in the line of duty. Of those that have been, I would be willing to wager that few of them were from an OIG. Every line of duty death is tragic, regardless of whether the officer is a local deputy sheriff or a Special Agent from a big 3-letter. Just know that the reality is probably far, far less risky than she's imagining.

Hmm, I don't know. I was married before I got into the job. I still have the same friends, a vast majority of which are not in LE...we're speaking in general terms here, so I think you have to be broad in perspective all the way around.

Sounds like the real work that needs to be done for the OP is having a discussion with the wife, not the internet forum (to be blunt) and getting down to exactly what it is about LE that worries her. Then figure out what you can mitigate through proper personal security and education on her part. Will the job be more dangerous than sitting behind a desk all day (unless you will be actually sitting behind a desk all day, going through boxes or records, etc) probably...but I'd be willing to be its the fear of the unknown that's causing a problem.

Originally Posted by whatchagot

I'd guess that most OIG's are working 9-5. In fact that's why many people chose to go OIG: their work/life balance is probably the best in the 1811 community.

True to a degree, but like anything it depends. Many OIG agents cover significantly larger geographic areas than those in the larger agencies, which usually have offices all over the place. An OIG agent may need to travel to multiple states to cover his or her own leads, rather than kicking them to offices in those states to handle, and that same agent may also be needed to help with a search warrant on the other side of the country the next week because the office running that op only has 3 agents in it. Granted, a lot of this travel can often be scheduled by the agent with a great deal of flexibility...on a long term procurement fraud case, waiting two weeks to conduct an out of town interview often isn't a big deal, but I was on the road a LOT more as an OIG agent than at any other time in my career.

By following their recommendations and mailing off a few letters, I virtually disappeared from the open internet.

My agency has not done a good job about providing us or telling us about the avenues to accomplish this. Although I am able to find sources on the internet that tell you they can help you to do so, I would prefer the advise of another LEO. If it is something limited to ATF, I will obviously understand - If not I would greatly appreciate the info. PM would be fine. Thanks in advance.

As the earlier posters have expressed, what you're really asking about is a LE career, not just the OIG position. AND if that career can work given your wife's predisposition towards the position. I also agree that you'll not get what you need here.

You need to sit down with your wife and discuss what you'd like to do career-wise. There are many state, local and federal LEOs on this Board and all have many different experiences within the law enforcement community.

What have you told her about the job? Is she getting all her 'knowledge' from police action shows on TV? Is she willing to give it a try and are YOU willing to seriously consider something else if it doesn't work out? For some families, it works out. Honestly, for others is doesn't and their are a multitude of reasons.

Remember, YOU are going into LE. Your wife is along for the ride and you've got to make her a part of the journey. If you don't, you'll put your marriage in jeopardy and it's not worth it. Can she accept the travel? Potential reassignment? Will she relocate if you want that "BIG" promotion? Will you?

Lots of questions for an early conversation with your wife. Best of luck to you.

Originally Posted by dmclark

Remember, YOU are going into LE. Your wife is along for the ride and you've got to make her a part of the journey. If you don't, you'll put your marriage in jeopardy and it's not worth it. Can she accept the travel? Potential reassignment? Will she relocate if you want that "BIG" promotion? Will you?

Lots of questions for an early conversation with your wife. Best of luck to you.

That hits it right on the head. When someone chooses to join the military or a career in Public Safety (LE, Fire, EMS, etc.) the whole family signs up too. If they weren't part of the decision process this can lead to huge family problems. Although very few will have a complete understanding until "on the job", it is imperative that these disucssions take place BEFORE you get too far along in the application process. Good Luck and let us know how it works out.