Thread: H&K P2000 at CBP

I was talking with our FI coordinators last week and it looks like CBP is going to begin issuing P2000's to CBPO's out in the field to replace our G17's and Berettas. CBPO's have already been receiving them at FLETC for some time.

I've fired the P2000 on several occasions and like it's feel (and .40 caliber round) but this weapon doesn't seem as user friendly to a shooter as the Glocks. I've owned and carried numerous semis and revolvers and the P2000 doesn't impress me as some other weapons that I have carried on the job. I cut my teeth on the 1911 and later the Beretta in the military and carried a S&W Model 66 and later a G19 when I was a state LEO. Other than giving us the round upgrade from 9mm to .40 caliber, it seems like taking thousands of Glocks out of service to replace them with this "Made in USA" H&K is a waste of money. Of course, I am sure I am missing something,

Any constructive and/or technical insight from other LEO's that have made the conversion to the H&K would be appreciated. Ya'll be safe!

Irishcopper

The reason is that the Glock 40 cal pistols would not handle the +p .40 cal load that is used by CBP & ICE.

I am a Glock fan and own two, but I would never shoot hot .40s out of the Glock. They have less than a 5000 round lifespan when used with the govt. spec .40 cal load.

Glock 9mm are a different story, shoot all the +P 9mm you want and the gun will still be shooting 20K +.

The HK and SIG stood up to being shot over 10,000 rounds with out any catostophic failures to include cracked slide, barrel lugs, etc.

That is the reason for logging rounds in the book, at 9000 rounds or so, you will get a different gun and that one will be taken out of service, not rebuilt or refurbished, just retired. It is a safety mechanism.

So it really is a matter of perspective, if you don't buy into the +P 40 debate being superior to the +P 9mm, then it the purchase of these HK sidearms could be viewed as a waste of money.

I am not convinced that any agent carrying a compact or midsize HK/SIG is really gaining any sort of significant velocity out of the short 3 1/2" barrels by using +P loads of any caliber.

That round orginally was designed for the Border Patrol to be shot out of a full size handgun barrel. The BP wanted a round that was fairly flat shooting out to 50 yds.

It is a very neat round and with minimal practice, one can consitantly hit a 5 gallon bucket at 200 yards, we are talking about a 40% hit rate at that range. I'm sure there are others out there that have a better average.

I have a friend with the FBI that carries the Glock 22, he shoots/carries the exact same brand, type and grain load that my A.O. issues for our H&K/SIG. I believe that it is the same that is in question also. So, how is it that he has no problem with the ammo "hot" or not? He also carries a G27, no problems. I also spoke to a source who is a Glock armorer and he advised that the Glock is able to handle pressures well above and beyond what they say is safe for the gun. The issue of why ICE/CBP didn’t go for the Glock… Who knows? I have a CI in HQ who did mention to me that Glock couldn’t meet the bid. In addition to that the reason the G27 is no longer on the approved list (as it was before) was that the list was sent to the “capa di tutti capi”, and she said that too many guns were listed and that was that. Some will dispute this and that’s ok. In the end it does not matter anyway.

Not as user friendly? Let's see, it has both an ambidextrous magazine release and slide release (Glocks lack these user friendly features). Beyond those there are no other control levers on the weapon, no de-cocker (like a Glock), no external safety (like a Glock), you point it in the appropriate direction and pull the trigger, how much more "user friendly" can you get? If anything the P2000 is more "user friendly" than the Glock.

Originally Posted by kennethm3

Not as user friendly? Let's see, it has both an ambidextrous magazine release and slide release (Glocks lack these user friendly features). Beyond those there are no other control levers on the weapon, no de-cocker (like a Glock), no external safety (like a Glock), you point it in the appropriate direction and pull the trigger, how much more "user friendly" can you get? If anything the P2000 is more "user friendly" than the Glock.

Maybe it's sentimental. My Glock and I went through a lot together when I was working on the streets of New Orleans(before and after HK). Mr Glock pistol has served me well. Thanks for the opinions and feedback.

Irishcopper

I fired the HP2000 at the range and the magzine release is a pain. I have to use a 'pinching' method with my thumb and middle finger to eject the magazine.

______________________________________
To Strive, To Seek, To find, and Not To Yield.

Originally Posted by Frozen Guard

I fired the HP2000 at the range and the magzine release is a pain. I have to use a 'pinching' method with my thumb and middle finger to eject the magazine.

______________________________________
To Strive, To Seek, To find, and Not To Yield.

I had the same problem with my p2000 when I first got it.Now after more than a 1000 rounds thru it the magazine pops right out without too much trouble.

Not only are we changing our weapon and in some cases caliber, but the powers that be have decided that the normal 155 grain .40 cal round that the BP shoots is too hot. As soon as it it time to order ammo, we have been instructed to order 135 grain .40 cal ammo that will, as the memo states, mimic the felt recoil of the 9mm. BP will continue to fire the 155 grain round. As a firearms instructor I have to scratch my head. Go figure...

As of last October, the FBI was carrying a 165 grain Hydro Shocks that are about 80 fps less than the 1205 fps 155 grain round in question. However I can not comment with authority on what the FBI issues nationwide. I will talk to one of my FBI FI I work with and find out the nitty gritty.

As far as the Glocks go, again I love and own two of them currently and have owned 2 others . . .

But there have been problems specifically in the .40 cal models with the guns blowing up using hot loads. The bottom half of the cartridge while chambered is unsupported, just like with a lot of 1911 style .45s. The difference is the 45 acp operates at considerably lower pressure. There are some interesting articles about not using reloads or hot factory ammo without installing a custom barrel which supports the entire case.

The ammo memo about switching to a lighter load stuns me. Now that IMHO is truely a waste of money. If you are going to use a round that mimics a 9mm round, why not use the 9mm to begin with?