Shooting at Fort Hood........ - Page 2

g6445v · #16 11-06-2009, 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scout0315

What we have is a crazy coward who happens to be Muslim.

Good point...this scenario is the lesser of the two evils...I sincerely hope, this turn out to be a digruntled soldier and not a terrorist attack...this is the second time this year of green on green...what is also concerning is the reports of LEOs drunk on duty, stress is doing a number fellow LEOs and servicemembers...I personally worked cases of servicemembers from junior enlisted to senior officers killing themselves or killing someone else due to mental issues...is a serious problem to say the least...

Can't Commit · #17 11-06-2009, 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBI_SA_Jarhead

...I'll keep one eye peeled just in case.

An acceptable use of experience and wisdom indeed...CC

g6445v · #18 11-06-2009, 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by FBI_SA_Jarhead

I'm glad you will stand with that agent anywhere...I'll keep one eye peeled just in case.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that you'll be wary of a LEO or servicemember of Arab decent?...if this is the case and if you're a LEO (Fed or Local) you're loosing sight of a very basic principal in which our actions as LEO's are based, this concept is called "Totality of Circumstances"...lets not forget that the threat of Islamic terrorism comes from anywhere...I'm sure you remember John Walker Lihn or the Kawana (not sure of the spelling) six or Jose Padilla...in this group of people all were Anglo, African and Hispanic Americans...

FBI_SA_Jarhead · #19 11-06-2009, 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by g6445v

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying that you'll be wary of a LEO or servicemember of Arab decent?...if this is the case and if you're a LEO (Fed or Local) you're loosing sight of a very basic principal in which our actions as LEO's are based, this concept is called "Totality of Circumstances"...lets not forget that the threat of Islamic terrorism comes from anywhere...I'm sure you remember John Walker Lihn or the Kawana (not sure of the spelling) six or Jose Padilla...in this group of people all were Anglo, African and Hispanic Americans...

I said nothing of Arab descent. I fought against blond haired, blue eyed Islamic militants in Fallujah (Chechen). My concern is aimed squarely radical Islamists of all races, colors and creeds. I'm saying this is not the first time, and probably not the last time, that a member of the Muslim faith inside our ranks has turned against us...in particular, there was that scumbag that tossed a few frags in his fellow soldiers tent in Kuwait in the runup to the war.

I'm well aware of Johnny Taliban, and Adam Gadahn (aka Azzam al-Amriki). I'm a CT analyst, not a LEO...although I'm currently an applicant to become a LEO. I'm not a bigot nor do I think every Muslim is a terrorist...but my line of work has taught me that you can't take that threat for granted.

The reports coming out now say that Hasan drew attention from the feds a few months ago for possibly posting on radical websites. I'm just sayin...

g6445v · #20 11-06-2009, 07:47

I been as a FED LEO in Iraq, working CT twice my friend...I've been involved in CT pretty much since 9/11...as per your statement you came across as if you would be wary of anyone of Arab decent, since the prior the conversation was regarding an Arab-American USSS SA who was denied access to a commercial flight...

FBI_SA_Jarhead · #21 11-06-2009, 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by g6445v

I been as a FED LEO in Iraq, working CT twice my friend...I've been involved in CT pretty much since 9/11...as per your statement you came across as if you would be wary of anyone of Arab decent, since the prior the conversation was regarding an Arab-American USSS SA who was denied access to a commercial flight...

I also said I knew some good ones too. I don't know how you extrapolated that I said I was wary of anyone of Arab descent from my statement. Nowhere in this thread have I said that people of Arab descent were not to be trusted. I am just saying that we shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility. Especially when there are extremist indications. Major Hasan gave away all his furniture and passed out Qu'rans before the shooting, reports are coming out about possible involvement with extremist websites, and he was shouting Allahu Akbar as he was emptying the magazine. I said I'll keep one eye out, which to me, meant that I'm not going to dismiss the possibility that this could happen again, not that you can't trust every Arab or Muslim.

I also never disparaged your credential as a federal LEO. I thought your previous post was asking me if I were an LEO, and if so I was forgetting the "totality of circumstances." I replied in the negative, that I was an intel guy working to get into federal LE. I'm not trying to get in a pissing match here. I like a good debate, but I don't want this to devolve into something else.

g6445v · #22 11-06-2009, 08:24

got it...as I said in one of my posts I sincerely hope this is a case of a disturbed individual and not a conspiracy...I'll hate to see this as a major CI gap...there were a couple of cases in recent years in which penetrations were made into major G'vt agencies...

FBI_SA_Jarhead · #23 11-06-2009, 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by g6445v

got it...as I said in one of my post I sincerely hope this is a case of disturbed individual and not a conspiracy...I'll hate to see this as a major CI gap...there were a couple of cases in recent years in which penetrations were made into major G'vt agencies...

It is hard to communicate context and inflection over a message board. I'm sure me and you would have a much better time understanding each other in a live conversation

I don't do CI work, so I can't speak to penetrations...but I do know that recruiting U.S. citizens to be the "enemy within" is being carried out by Islamic extremists. This also goes for white supremacist groups and street gang members. Although they might not want to attack the U.S armed forces, they use the military as a vessel to train their "troops" for their own personal wars.

It is impossible to totally control such things. Internal security of that magnitude and scope would tear at the very fabric of our society.

HR24 · #24 11-06-2009, 14:21

FEMALE POLICE OFFICER CREDITED WITH STOPPING FORT HOOD MASSACRE, HAILED A HERO.

A female civilian police officer is being hailed as a hero in the aftermath of a gunman's rampage at Fort Hood — an outbreak of violence that the officer is credited with ending by shooting the alleged gunman four times despite being shot herself.

The attack killed 13 people and wounded 30 others at the Texas military post, but the carnage ended there, thanks to the quick response of Fort Hood Police Sgt. Kimberly Munley.

Munley and her partner responded within three minutes of reports of gunfire on Thursday, Lt. Gen. Bob Cone said Friday. Authorities say Munley, 34, exchanged fire with the gunman, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, who remains comatose in a Texas hospital. Munley is in stable condition, officials said.

"It was an amazing and an aggressive performance by this police officer," Cone said.

Munley's Twitter page has been deluged by well-wishers since the tragic shooting.

"You are a true heroine and we are deeply grateful for your courage," one posting read. "Best Wishes for a full and quick recovery."

Another posting read, "Stand tall girl! I'm here to tell you your sisters in policing are very proud of the courage you displayed yesterday. You ARE what being 'on the job' is all about. Your bravery in the line of fire will be long remembered."

Attempts to reach Munley's relatives were unsuccessful Friday.

According to her Twitter account, Munley lives a "good life."

".... a hard one, but I go to sleep peacefully @ night knowing that I may have made a difference in someone's life," her page reads.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

LINK: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572574,00.html

-Good job Sgt.! Wish she and all of those wounded a speedy recovery.

universible · #25 11-07-2009, 00:06

I don't mean this as commentary on the religious side of the discussions that are going on everywhere about all this....

I am having a hard time seeing how PTSD (even that caused by hearing of other people's experiences serving in a war zone) would manifest itself as randomly shooting people in a rampage setting. I also have a hard time seeing being upset about having to deploy making you snap that way...I would think it might be more targeted. I can however see how having strong beliefs AND being ordered to deploy in some active fashion that conflicts with those beliefs...AND hearing constant stories from people that might contain conflicts with said beliefs would make someone completely snap. I'm no psychologist, just thinking it through, people do all kinds of crazy stuff based on beliefs. Act of terrorism? I think it depends on how you define it. I don't see how this would count as some coordinated act of terrorism that you could link to an idealogic belief (you know, like bombing a government building or hijaking a plane, etc). Just thinking outloud.

Its also great to call that cop a hero, but all the stories I read call her a female officer...or that she was slightly built, etc...how about just being a damn good officer? If it was a male officer it wouldn't have read "male officer" or "medium built"....again, just thinking outloud.

bike123 · #26 11-07-2009, 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by universible

Its also great to call that cop a hero, but all the stories I read call her a female officer...or that she was slightly built, etc...how about just being a damn good officer? If it was a male officer it wouldn't have read "male officer" or "medium built"....again, just thinking outloud.

Could not agree with you more.

nsedet · #27 11-07-2009, 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by universible

Act of terrorism? I think it depends on how you define it. I don't see how this would count as some coordinated act of terrorism that you could link to an idealogic belief (you know, like bombing a government building or hijaking a plane, etc). Just thinking outloud.

Definitely a matter of perspective and how you define "terrorism", though I believe you need to look at the ideology behind an incident rather than looking for a specific level of coordination or sophistication. Whether you are talking about Islamic extremism, right wing extremism, single issue or special interest extremism, the defining characteristics of a terrorist are an extremist ideology AND a willingness to carry out violent actions in furtherance of that ideology, regardless of affiliation or lack thereof with a terrorist organization. Possible to have one without the other (extreme beliefs without violence, and violent actions without a driving ideology), but terrorism requires both.

Along these lines is an op-ed by Walid Phares, author of Future Jihad, posted today on Fox News online: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2009/...terror-attack/.

Lot of differing opinions out there and Mr. Phares has his detractors, but I think he does a good job of framing how we need to assess the Fort Hood shooting in the context of Islamic extremism even if other factors (psychological issues, workplace violence) played a role as well. IMO this is not just a matter of semantics, it gets to the need for us to focus on the ideology behind terrorism and address that rather than focusing solely on terrorist organizations and networks.

LRS2FLE · #28 11-07-2009, 08:58

I agree that we (LE, the US Gov, and to a lesser extent the American public in general) need to better understand the ideology of Islamic extremism and how some Muslims buy into extremism or jihadist ideology. You can't understand and effectively fight the jihadists without understanding their beliefs. And killing individuals is useless if you don't address the factors that allow extremists to easily recruit replacements.

The majority of Muslims (who are peaceful) need to speak out more actively against jihadists. Not only would this exert direct pressure, countering jihadist recruitment attempts, but this would also better demonstrate to non-Muslims that the majority of Muslims are non-violent. Terrorism has become the public face of Islam in many people's eyes, as that is all they see and read about. Too many people see this as a Christian versus Muslim conflict and that all Muslims are suspect. This makes it easier for the extremists to recruit people as many peaceful Muslims feel persecuted.

papimike · #29 11-08-2009, 12:15

Unfortunately, there is a biased view towards the Islamic culture. Islam at its core is as noble a religion as any other religion. The same way Catholics have killed in the name of religion, so have Muslims. Death by extreme religious views is nothing new on this planet. The problem right now is that the group on the hot plate, the group that has done the most damage to us, have been the Muslim extremists. With that said, the face of terror in most folks eyes are Muslims. It should be noted that Muslims come in all colors - Albanians, Indonesians, Russians, etc, etc.

On a side note: Watching video footage, the responding SWAT team on the base appeared to be the local or state police. Curious about a civilian law non military law enforcement response on a military base. -

bike123 · #30 11-08-2009, 12:45

Nearly every military base has a SWAT team whether it be from the military police or DA/DOD/DON police. There was picture of the Killeen SWAT team on their armored vehicle (the white and black vehicle with the SWAT members on the back) but I believe the guys coming out of the armored van was the base SWAT team. Many of the state side military bases are going to a civilian police force with some military police assisting in patrol duty although there may be exceptions.