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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    6,371
    Thanks, Time Traveler, as I was scrolling through this thread I was looking for what you posted. Other than for recreational shooting, you want to have what the agency has trained and certified you on otherwise you can be taking yourself into personal liability. Might as well get it early, once you are carrying a badge you cannot retreat into the lesser standard applied to a civilian with a CCW permit. You will always be held to a duty standard and should try to make adherence to that standard easy to establish.
    ret.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    GLOBAL
    Posts
    1,956
    Just to add to TT's point - there is a sound tactical reason for carrying the same platform off-duty as you do on-duty, in addition to the liability issue.

    The greater the degree of difference between those platforms, the higher the probability you will have foibles during an altercation (be it reloading, safety (dis)engagement, target acquisition, etc).

    Just my .02
    Better a hundred enemies outside the tent, than one inside.

    - Arabian proverb

  3. #48
    Dylan889 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Brettkazcop
    Good post!

    No offense Dylan, but it seems to me that you are listening selectively to the different posts. Many of those currently in the application process are telling you "I don't see a problem with it...Constitution says so and my state agrees!"

    While some of the actual 1811's that are posting and trying to help you out... warning you of possible anti-gun feelings within the hiring process and agencies. They are also warning you about stereotypes of some applicants, some just wanting the power of a gun on their hip or that neat looking badge.

    Personally if I was applying for an 1811 job, I know who I would listen to.

    Like the post above stated "Carrying a gun is not a deterrent from confrontation." I am not sure of the extent of your family problems, but I am assuming you have not had a deadly force encounter between them in the past. Get an order of protection immediately, a good cell phone to carry around with you and some pepper spray. You will hear from most of the officers here on this board, our most effective weapon off duty can sometimes be our cell phone.

    Once you get on the job and you are putting away major criminals for extended periods of stay in the big house, that weapon makes a lot of sense to carry off duty - since you are making a lot of bad guys not happy. If you only want to carry because you can right now - it may be more of a liability than it is worth. If you feel you truly need it, and your state allows CCW, then by all means do what you need to do! Do what you will with the information provided to you by those nice enough to post for you.

    Kaz
    I guess I am just ranting a bit. But I am a little ticked off that this would, should or could be an issue .
    Looking neagatively at a CCW strikes me as bad if not worse than looking at someone's political party affiliation or religion , (as long as you are talking Republican/Democart or something mainstreem).

    Everyone, Thanks for the Advise.
    I will look at getting a new Firearm since I am a "Firearms Enthusiest", but not getting a CCW, while in the hiring process.

    P.S. Does it show I am a proud member of the NRA LOL
    Last edited by Dylan889; 02-02-2005 at 16:17.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    6,371
    The issue is not having a CCW permit; the issue gets to be why. Lot's of great answers and a couple of troublesome ones. Troublesome ones are about the folks who are just twitchin for the opportunity to defend something by blowing somebody away. Got a little hero, martyr thing going on that does not set well with professional le types. Hypervigilence is a symptom of bad things happening and not something an agency is looking to hire.

    Same time, 'bout a thousand really good and neutral answers, including I am a barrel sucker cum laude and often transport expensive and rare guns to shows and such. Just stay away from "Evil waits around the next corner and I do not want to miss any opportunity to pop caps at it."
    ret.

  5. #50
    Eaglearm Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ATF SAC
    The issue is not having a CCW permit; the issue gets to be why. Lot's of great answers and a couple of troublesome ones. Troublesome ones are about the folks who are just twitchin for the opportunity to defend something by blowing somebody away. Got a little hero, martyr thing going on that does not set well with professional le types. Hypervigilence is a symptom of bad things happening and not something an agency is looking to hire.

    Same time, 'bout a thousand really good and neutral answers, including I am a barrel sucker cum laude and often transport expensive and rare guns to shows and such. Just stay away from "Evil waits around the next corner and I do not want to miss any opportunity to pop caps at it."
    By far the best post to answer the question at hand. Daylan889, don't be in a hurry to carry a piece of steal. Although some of us carry and we do so for various reason, its just not as glamorous as you would think.

    Don't let the CDI (chicks dig it) Factor dictate your life style. Trust me, the CDI Factor does not play here.

    This piece of steal can bring more headaches than what it's worth. Even when you are 100% in the trigger pull zone, its no fun having to explain yourself to 12 civilians who do not know the first thing about law enforcement and have the absolute power to decide how the rest of your life will be played out. Trust me been there done that crap, its no cup of tea. Play it safe and wait till you get you badge and creds.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Not at my desk
    Posts
    7,503
    Having a CCW permit carries great responsibility. I think the vast majority of permit holders understand this, and have no desire to play cop.
    This goes along with what Jack said, but most of the people I've dealt with in a professional capacity who had CCW's (or who wanted them) were NOT those with a great deal of responsibility; more often than not, they WERE the type of guys who were simply wannabe cops. If you get other 1811's on an interview panel with experiences like this, it may not go well for you.

    TT makes a great point, also. A gun is just a tool: personally, I'd rather carry the tool that my agency gave me and be covered. Just something to think about.

    k
    "I don't share your greed...the only card I need...is the Ace of Spades, the Ace of Spades..."

  7. #52
    Dylan889 Guest
    Alright, Alright, you guys convinced me. It is a bad idea.
    But how subjective is the BI??
    I thought the main scrutiny came from the interview then the poly??
    Last edited by Dylan889; 02-22-2005 at 17:44.

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Somewhere between a rock and a hard place
    Posts
    1,974
    Quote Originally Posted by Dylan889
    Alright, Alright, you guys convinced me. It is a bad idea.
    But how subjective is the BI for 1811s??? Spacifically the FBI??
    I thought the main scrutiny came from Phase II interview then the poly??
    Specifically. . .we wash alot of people in the background. . . something comes up, it causes more questions to be asked, then something else. . .lots of people waiting in the wings. . . you're gone. Don't make the assumption that you pass Phase II and your in...you've crossed a number of hurdles, but in, your not.

    Somedays the number of letters rescinding the conditional offer you get once you pass Phase II is pretty big.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Time and Space
    Posts
    310
    Well, I am glad that my experiences with CCW permit holders have been much better than others have had. Of all the non-LEO permit holders I know, not a single one got the permit because they want to play cop, and they are very aware of the responsibility it carries. Also, never heard of an incident locally of a permit holder who got into trouble for going beyond the purpose of the permit. I am sure they are out there; bad apples in every group. I am also a big advocate of carrying your duty weapon off-duty. I carry mine all the time. Always good to have your agency behind you.

    That being said, it still surprises me that (absent some bad behavior on the part of the permit holder) this would be such an issue during the LEO hiring process. In all my years of LE, I have never heard of this being an issue, until this thread started. Most people seem to say don't get the CCW permit because you might be perceived as being some cop wannabe. Almost like saying don't get a car because you might be perceived as a reckless driver. Unfortunate that someone could be axed from the hiring process for the simple reason that they have a CCW permit for personal protection, without any specific knowledge of wrongdoing.

    However, since it seems to be problem, I will yield to my esteemed colleagues. I have to say that this has been an excellent thread with a lot of very good information. Be safe out there.
    Last edited by Reservoir Dog; 02-02-2005 at 22:09.
    The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles. – Ayn Rand

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    781
    ATFSAC, I'm glad that you said what you said. The issue of gun ownership actually came up in my ATF interview. Simply put, during the hello how do you do? What do you know about us and how do you know it? portion of the interview, I actually said that as a firearms collector I was aware of the ATF's mission of keeping guns out of the hands of bad guys. They really didn't go into any more detail than that and I thought that was good, I'm glad I didn't deep six myself because I said that I collected guns.


    On another note, I wouldn't hesitate to get a 1911 of some sort if you want a nice shooter. My dept.'s off duty weapon policy is thankfully very lenient and I personally carry a Wilson Protector off duty. I own a Kimber TLE RL/II that I enjoy as well. If you want a 1911 I would say go for it, there's a reason why they still sell so well after nearly 100 years.
    "Chance favors the prepared mind"

    "I took the road less traveled by and that has made all the difference"

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    6,371
    It's faded a bit, but the ATF I joined sponsored competitive pistol teams and probably pound for pound weighs in pretty high on gun strokes per capita (it's really not counterintuitive in spite of a lot of lobbyist propaganda that the agents and inspectors are anti-gun - some probably are a little, some are clearly not, but nothing that alters adherence to agency policy and the law).

    I appreciate the responses to my earlier post, especially the understanding that being interested in guns or having a CCW permit are not per se issues for anybody, but would naturally lead to perfectly relevant questions as to whether you may be in a distinct minority (but existing minority) of nut jobs who believe they are Sir Lancelot or whether you hold such beliefs either pro or anti gun as to create a problem in carrying out the mandated responsibilities of the agency. There are just plenty of neutral answers that let everybody move along. For example in Connecticut (at least at one time) almost every company had a pistol team and every shooter had a CCW because it was required to carry a firearm in a motor vehicle. Yawn, yawn, yawn.

    Once interview a person for a support position who stated that her interest in ATF was tied to ridding America of the evil of guns. Thanks for your interest, sorry that we are selecting someone else.
    ret.

  12. #57
    Dylan889 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Time Traveller
    Specifically. . .we wash alot of people in the background. . . something comes up, it causes more questions to be asked, then something else. . .lots of people waiting in the wings. . . you're gone. Don't make the assumption that you pass Phase II and your in...you've crossed a number of hurdles, but in, your not.

    Somedays the number of letters rescinding the conditional offer you get once you pass Phase II is pretty big.
    WOW, This was all very informative!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Thanks.
    I don't have great need for one now, so I won't.
    Last edited by Dylan889; 02-22-2005 at 15:12. Reason: Speling


 

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