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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    6

    Fed To State/Local Post Retirement

    Howdy. It has been a while.

    I'm an 1811 currently planning for my post-fed retirement life. I've been trying to figure out what I want to do after my 20 (coming up quickly) and the idea of working in some capacity with a local LE organization or at the state level is very intriguing. Of course, I'd love for it to be a straight investigator position, but it seems to me like they'd hire within their ranks as people worked their way up.

    I'm willing to start at the lower levels (within reason) and work my way up as my fed retirement will make the economics a little easier. I'm possibly interested in some type of (forensic) auditing work, possibly with a state or local OIG, or in forensics (criminalist). I have limited background in both and know I'd need more training/experience to be even in the running.

    I know I'm not a spring chicken (I'll be 51 when I am able to finally leave) but I'm in good shape and feel like I have at least 10-15 good years of work left in me and I want to do with a smaller organization. I'm trying to figure out how to position myself so that when a job opportunity comes open I don't get brushed off simply because my skill set was generally practiced in a law enforcement field that might not be immediately apparent to a recruiter or HR person.

    I've been pursuing various certifications (CFE, CFI, CIGI), have maxed out the education short of a PhD or JD, and am looking for advice on training or certifications or other things that a local or state organization might be looking for? I'm currently doing training and support and I know it would look better if I was actually out in the field continuing to work my skills. I thought I'd come over and see if anyone had any advice on the types of things that might make a 51 year old applicant more interesting. Another degree in forensics? CPA? I'm open to listening to all options.

    Thanks for any advice you can offer.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,941
    www.acfe.org find a local chapter and attend their lunches/meetings. "but I don't want to do fraud". News Bulletin: there are no ram-carriers or kicking in doors in the civilian world. "Investigations" usually involves some, or all, fraud. If you have ANY computer knowledge, attend some cybersecurity training at the local junior college and get your Security A+ or CISSP certifications. That + TS clearance = entry level cyberjobs.

    If cyber is your interest, http://www.issa.org/ attend lunches/meetings.

    get your Linked In profile established with a professional photo of yourself in a suit and tie. NOT your cred photo with the flag behind your shoulders, like 95% of the retired 1811's on Linked In have.

    "straight investigator position" most of those are at the State Attorney General and will be mostly child abuse jobs and/or fraud related jobs. Kind of "State level OIG" type stuff

    the good jobs in retirement are 90% networking and who you know. the time to start is now.

    good luck
    Last edited by satpak77; 05-07-2018 at 22:13.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by satpak77 View Post
    "straight investigator position" most of those are at the State Attorney General and will be mostly child abuse jobs and/or fraud related jobs. Kind of "State level OIG" type stuff
    Thanks. This is kind of where I am aiming it. I'm planning on pursuing the Professional Certified Investigator (PCI) certification through ASIS and am already a member of ACFE. Need to start attending meetings, though. I'm waiting a bit before posting on LinkedIn for OPSEC reasons but I hear you about the necessity of networking. Thanks for the advice.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,941
    Quote Originally Posted by OIG_Skunk View Post
    Thanks. This is kind of where I am aiming it. I'm planning on pursuing the Professional Certified Investigator (PCI) certification through ASIS and am already a member of ACFE. Need to start attending meetings, though. I'm waiting a bit before posting on LinkedIn for OPSEC reasons but I hear you about the necessity of networking. Thanks for the advice.
    everyone and their brother is on Linked In. Most corporate recruiters use that as a tool.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    159

    Fed To State/Local Post Retirement

    This is an excellent post. When I retired at the end of 2010, I wasn't planning on retiring as soon as I did. The county offered an incnetive and a number of us took advantage of it. As a result, I wasn't as prepared as I should have been. I did a post-retirement job for six years and retired again with a small secong pension. I am looking again.

    If you decide to go private, there are some jobs listed on the IASIU website.
    https://jobs.iasiu.org/

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Behind a desk, crying
    Posts
    2,563
    Fast approaching 25 years and taking notes.
    Last edited by Big Sexy; 05-08-2018 at 16:11.
    It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both. - Niccolo Machiavelli

    Most people respect the badge, everybody respects the gun.

    I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. - Colonel Jessup

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    In the office, questioning my life choices
    Posts
    485
    Quote Originally Posted by satpak77 View Post
    News Bulletin: there are no ram-carriers or kicking in doors in the civilian world. "Investigations" usually involves some, or all, fraud.
    Recognizing up front that this is a bit of a hijacking... I'm really wrestling with this. I'm eligible to retire in far fewer years than I want to admit. As openly discussed here, I'm a plain ole' agent who occasionally (on my good days) does some dope and gun UC. Buying two ounces of crack and a pistol from a gang member isn't exactly a directly transferrable skill set. I'm really torn on the post retirement gig. I'm not even sure that I'll want to continue in a similar career field when I retire. I'm fortunate that if I go to mandatory, I'd probably be financially able to never work again. If I go when I'm eligible, I'm going to have to work some for a few years.

    Those things said, how does a regular grunt agent parlay what I do everyday with gang members into a fraud job? When do people start studying for, and taking, the CFE exam? My gut tells me that investigations are investigations, and that the basics never change. Conversely, a brief look at many of the jobs on the IASIU website tells me that I'll never be competitive because I haven't worked a fraud case in my life.

    I recognize that these aren't new thoughts, I was just curious if some of you who were longer in the tooth had any insight.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by whatchagot View Post
    Those things said, how does a regular grunt agent parlay what I do everyday with gang members into a fraud job? When do people start studying for, and taking, the CFE exam? My gut tells me that investigations are investigations, and that the basics never change. Conversely, a brief look at many of the jobs on the IASIU website tells me that I'll never be competitive because I haven't worked a fraud case in my life.
    The reason I started this post was based on a .pdf someone sent a bunch of us 1811s who all believed we needed to work to mandatory but realized no one would want to hire us for a new career at 57. The long and short of it is you don't need to make what you currently make because not only are you going to get your annuity, your FERS supplement, but you'll also have less taken out of your paycheck including your TSP and a whole bunch else to the point a person like me at GS-13 Step whatever only needs to make an extra $49k per year to make what I'm currently making now.

    The individual who wrote it is linked below. He knows what he's talking about:

    https://client.schwab.com/public/con...chris.barfield

    As far as "investigations are investigations," I agree, but I also know I will need to distinguish myself from others who are entering the field from a more direct route than a retired 1811. I have my CFE and a bunch of other certifications and I did that deliberately to try and separate myself from others. I've also taken to typing in "Senior Investigator" and the town where I want to live in and trying to see what types of jobs are out there. There's always openings for "SIU" and health care investigators and it seems to me I've already got the investigations part down, now I need to pick which type of fraud I want to get into and get educated or certified in that area. I saw an opening the other day for fraud investigations with USAA in my hometown so I just look at what the requirements are for those jobs and tailor my future certification in that direction.

    LinkedIn is invaluable, too. You can type in the names of the companies or organizations you're looking for and "Senior Investigator" to see what type of background current employees have. Unfortunately for me, the private sector employers I'd like to work for seem to draw heavily from a certain local jurisdiction so it looks like that agency has a lock on those jobs.

    I'm four years from being able to retire and I really want to go back to my hometown. Knowing I don't have to make my current salary and can accept lower pay and still live at my current economic level with my retirement from FERS and FERS supplement and the lower taxes and lower deductions really opens up a whole world to me. Now it's a matter of figuring out what I can do between now and then to bolster my resume to make me an appealing candidate to potential employers.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    6
    Here is a small list of training and certifications I've begun to compile on what I might pursue prior to retirement that I think would help land a position as an investigator:

    ASIS Professional Certified Investigator
    Accredited Healthcare Fraud Investigator - Enterprise
    Cyber Intelligence Certificate
    Certified Peace Officer (State dependent)
    FINRA Anti-Money Laundering Training
    Risk Management Training
    Compliance Training
    Certified Anti Money Laundering Specialist*
    Bank Secrecy Act Training
    Property & Casualty/Adjuster license
    Certified Insurance Fraud Investigator

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Behind a desk, crying
    Posts
    2,563
    Quote Originally Posted by OIG_Skunk View Post
    The reason I started this post was based on a .pdf someone sent a bunch of us 1811s who all believed we needed to work to mandatory but realized no one would want to hire us for a new career at 57. The long and short of it is you don't need to make what you currently make because not only are you going to get your annuity, your FERS supplement, but you'll also have less taken out of your paycheck including your TSP and a whole bunch else to the point a person like me at GS-13 Step whatever only needs to make an extra $49k per year to make what I'm currently making now..
    If it's the same form BIG is thinking of, he just read it himself 2 days ago and is also rethinking his long term "does BIG go to mandatory" plans. Fortunately for BIG his agency has a couple of fraud programs, one of which he is currently assigned to. Approximately a year and a half ago BIG began to think about the future and realized all of the drug/gang member/guns investigations he'd conducted had a short post retirement employment life.
    It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both. - Niccolo Machiavelli

    Most people respect the badge, everybody respects the gun.

    I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. - Colonel Jessup

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sexy View Post
    If it's the same form BIG is thinking of, he just read it himself 2 days ago and is also rethinking his long term "does BIG go to mandatory" plans.
    It probably is. I believe it was written in March of this year and has been making the rounds all over. Eye opening for sure.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Posts
    7,369
    Quote Originally Posted by whatchagot View Post
    Those things said, how does a regular grunt agent parlay what I do everyday with gang members into a fraud job? When do people start studying for, and taking, the CFE exam? My gut tells me that investigations are investigations, and that the basics never change. Conversely, a brief look at many of the jobs on the IASIU website tells me that I'll never be competitive because I haven't worked a fraud case in my life.
    A few things on this:

    Investigations are investigations, but you have to be able to articulate for the audience in the right way, both on paper and in interviews. No one cares how much dope you seized or that you arrested an entire drug organization, but the demonstrated experience in investigative techniques, analyzing large volumes of data, etc., is all relevant. Better still if you can articulate experience working with the private sector, working with auditors and analysts, or concepts like applying what you learned in an investigation to identifying and solving a systemic issue.

    Don’t limit yourself to one title or one field. A lot of people in LE don’t understand the private sector, how their job skills may apply in different industries, and how getting experience outside government can open more doors because you can then show the ability to work as something other than a gun toter. Look at banking as an example: in addition to their security department, many banks have investigator or similar opportunities in other divisions such as Anti-Money Laundering or Compliance. Major tech and manufacturing companies are similar, and may have both security investigators and other more specialized opportunities in brand protection. Retail is another option, not just in the traditional storeside loss prevention areas but also in investigative opportunities involving cybercrime, fraud, drug diversion, etc.

    Bottom line: don’t limit yourself to one field or one title, especially as titles vary wildly. A former coworker went to work as a six figure security program manager for a major telecom company, but the job title advertised was something like loss prevention analyst.

    The certifications and associations are great, but they are more important as a networking tool. Many private sector jobs never get advertised, and with major companies it can be impossible to get through the HR review unless someone is looking for your name.

    Lastly, don’t talk yourself out of applying for a job that you qualify for just because you don’t think you will be competitive. As much as networking and who you know helps, there are still great opportunities out there. As an example, I know one position posted as an “auditor” on various accounting websites, but the description itself was for a security director. I know the person who got that job, and almost didn’t apply because of the title even though the job was a perfect fit.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    159

    Fed To State/Local Post Retirement

    Quote Originally Posted by OIG_Skunk View Post
    Here is a small list of training and certifications I've begun to compile on what I might pursue prior to retirement that I think would help land a position as an investigator:

    ASIS Professional Certified Investigator
    Accredited Healthcare Fraud Investigator - Enterprise
    Cyber Intelligence Certificate
    Certified Peace Officer (State dependent)
    FINRA Anti-Money Laundering Training
    Risk Management Training
    Compliance Training
    Certified Anti Money Laundering Specialist*
    Bank Secrecy Act Training
    Property & Casualty/Adjuster license
    Certified Insurance Fraud Investigator
    That is a great list. I will do some checking to see if I am able to get ANY of those now that I am retired completely. (Hopefully, not for long, though!)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    1,941
    I have personally with my own two-eyes, literally, seen retired 1811's get major six figure jobs in the private sector based on networking and pre-retirement "prep", all who left at age 50-55, and seen agents "forced out" at 57 with no prep done (hence their claw marks on the exit door) and now they are 57, 58 year old "senior citizens" (no disrespect) doing backgrounds on contract workers at the local military base.

    Age discrimination DOES exist in the private sector, FYI. Age 50 is not the same as Age 57

    Networking is THE most important thing for retirement jobs. That means hanging out with folks BESIDES the 1811s in your office. Yes, hang out with retired guys but hang out with the ACFE, ASIS meeting groups, etc. Going to lunch with 1811 Joey, same guy you go to lunch with everyday, is not going to get you that big job. Also, dedicate one day a month for resume prep/job search/etc stuff. We are all running at ??? 200 hrs Use/Loose a year now. That is 25 days a year. Take a day here or there, heck get your teeth cleaned in the morning and bang in S/L, and use that day for retirement planning.

    The above lists are fine, but the super hot sector right now is Cyber Security. I recommend you guys look into that. Get some EnCase or Cellebrite training via the G, if possible, if not, get involved and do some go-fer work for the guys working cyber/internet cases. Understand IP addresses, how to "dump" phones, etc. Find out in the local LEO community who the "cyber guys are" there will be maybe 3-5 dudes. Call them and offer to buy lunch in exchange for debriefing their knowledge. Have some sort of "yes, I did work similar" stories for the resume. Get a formal training class at the local junior college. The TS clearance + basic cyber training = job in retirement. The highest level role in Cyber is called a CISO, Cyber Information Security Officer, nobody is being hired direct into that, but get an entry level 75k job, do a good job, and you can get a CISO job in 3-5 years possibly. CISO is a $250k role.

    Cyber certs to get are the CISSP. The is the defacto gold standard. One "level down" would be the Security A+.

    NETWORKING ! Everybody knows somebody. I liked a post on LinkedIn written by a CISO and he (after seeing my profile) messaged me "hey thanks for your service". This led to a phone call, turns out he is a retired PD detective who used to be on a Fed task force ! spent the rest of the call talking war stories and do I know Joey Muckatellee etc etc. He said next time I am in town (about 200 miles away from me) he said "call me please, lets hook up."


    Good Luck
    Last edited by satpak77; 05-09-2018 at 23:46.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    737
    “Cyber certs to get are the CISSP. The is the defacto gold standard. One "level down" would be the Security A+.“

    What are the recommended sources for Security A+ and CISSP Training/cert?


 

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